PIKO Clean Machine -- Motor Issues

[Eric_Mueller]

The venerable Diesel Dan has been slowing down, getting fewer and fewer loops per charge until this year, the old boy just wouldn’t budge. This has been a favorite since hitting the Triple O ( PIKO Clean Machine – A Tropical Take), getting 2-3 runs a week with short trains until the middle of last year. The addition of a Magnetic Critter Controller ( Rehab of the Missile Sponges Part the First - Diesel Dan ) made this engine interactive and even more fun, and it probably the reason Kid-zilla grew from a toddler playing with trains to a boy becoming a model railroader.

We placed Diesel Dan on the Track of Perpetual Puttering as we attacked other projects. About two weeks ago, we tore him apart and began trouble shooting, asking for and receiving help from the folks at G-Scale Graphics and PIKO USA. I think we have a used up motor, but I wanted to share the finding and symptoms before ordering a replacement:

1. The magnetic controller works. We were able to control a similarly sized motor using the controller. in addition, we were able to use test leads at the motor outputs on the controller to watch voltage rise and fall.
2. It’s not the wires. We did test the wires between the controller and the motor.
3. There was a lot of graphite dust in the motor block. We’re getting pretty good at breaking down and repairing motor blocks. This one is like a newer LGB block. There were visible piles of graphite dust on the deck, and there was some graphite dust buildup near the brushes.
4. The motor resists hand turning. Our relatively new test motor spun easily when we spun it by hand. Diesel Dan’s motor resisted turning.
5. The motor sometimes still responds to voltage. If we apply a 9 Volt battery straight to the motor tabs, it will turn, though sometimes we have to give the shaft a little spin. It generally will not work if wired into the control circuit. We noted if it stops or fails to start, we get 0 V across the terminals, which I would think indicates a short.
6. The motor draws 0.3 Amps (when it works). PIKO said that 0.5 Amps would be sign of end-of-life, so this is likely non-diagnostic.

I am pretty sure that the motor is having issues, but, before I spend for a new one…

1. Am I correct? Is this the motor?
2. Is there a way to clean the motor’s internals? Somewhere I remember reading about a motor cleaning kit, where you stick the motor in some sort of solution and let it run?
3. Has anyone modified the PIKO motor block to fit a BUEHLER motor? The latter is half the price of the PIKO part, but this does not look like a modification that can be done without some careful consideration and perhaps tools that we don’t own.

Thanks in advance!

Eric

[David_Marconi_FOGCH (David Marconi CHHNNG)]

Sounds like it’s arcing internally Eric. Excess carbon dust showing.Culprit could be metal fibers of some sort. Never heard of a liquid motor solution for cleaning. Dad would strip a motor and use an ultrasonic cleaner to wash the armature but then it sat and air dried after being dried with an air hose to blow it dry. On occasion the wrappings will break on a leg of the armature and you would need to solder the errant wire back to it’s mounting lug.

[Rooster]

To me #4 seems to be an issue.

[Frank_Redner]

@Rooster

To me #4 seems to be an issue.

that is an understatement… probably overheated motor melted some plastic part, under commutator, or parts supporting motor windings… (assuming it’s not destroyed bearings with no lube)

[PeterT]

@David_Marconi_FOGCH

Never heard of a liquid motor solution for cleaning.

Somebody posted, on Facebook I think, a video of his electric motor being tested in a glass of solution. I think it was distilled water, but who knows.

In general I agree with everything David says. I’d take the armature out (pray it isn’t a regular LGB brush system,) and clean everything. Getting the brushes back is the fun part.

@Eric_Mueller

Has anyone modified the PIKO motor block to fit a BUEHLER motor?

I have not, but I did get a Kalamazoo 4-4-0 with a Bueler motor fitted.

The biggest problem usually is getting the worm off and fitting it on the replacement. This requires a gear puller - I have 3 or 4 different sizes/types.

[Rooster]

@Frank_Redner

@Rooster

To me #4 seems to be an issue.

that is an understatement… probably overheated motor melted some plastic part, under commutator, or parts supporting motor windings… (assuming it’s not destroyed bearings with no lube)

Not an understatement and exactly.

[Eric_Mueller]

Thanks everyone for you help and insight. What I can conclude is:

1. The motor is probably smoked, either from overuse, poor maintenance, or bad luck.
2. Repair might be possible, but as this is very similar to an LGB motor, likely difficult (I tried and failed to fix an old LGB one once). For comparison, the PIKO motor is on the left, and a recently replaced LGB motor is on the right in the pictures below.

3. There may be a way to clean the internals short of trying to disassemble the motor. Internet sleuthing to follow…
4. Fitting the LGB motor to the PIKO block might be possible, but will likely require a gear puller (I still have one from my fight with Charlie the Railtruck ( Onward the Pequod – Getting a B’mann Railtruck to Work Permanently , @PeterT !). The hard part, as the picture shows, would be getting the block to accept the LGB motor’s tabs. They would need to be twisted to slot into the motor block, at a minimum, or I’d have to reshape the motor block’s internals.

I am leaning towards saving a bit of overtime pay and getting a new motor…

Eric