But for people that still want to go track power say:
7 boxes of 60’ of AMS 250 Brass @ $200 = $1400
200 rail clamps = $180
Power Pack = $200
Total $1780
Not as cheap as your Battery option Rodney but I think it shows that there is other options to the old ‘Code 332 rail is the only rail to use in the garden’ rule.
Randy, you’re right and AMS 250 is what I use. I think it is the best bargain out there for your $$$$$$$$$$
All of the posts make sense. One thing that I think would have a substantial impact on our LS hobby would be if Home Depot and or Lowes set up a sample LS layout in their spring through fall garden center. More than just a circle of track. Have you ever seen the throngs of families in these garden big box stores in the spring? It is unbelievable! The number of small water garden kits is also directly related to our LS hobby. I haven’t been able to figure out why the big box home centers haven’t jumped on this yet. I know they can never replace a Trainworld or Charles Ro, but they can certainly kick start the outdoor aspect of the hobby. That is what really attracts my wife and I to the LS world.
When I first stumbled across LS on the net 2 1/2 yrs ago I was hooked but then I saw the price of 332 brass. Whooo! might not be able to afford that! I think it was Bruce who steered me to the AMS. Couldn’t have done it with the larger track prices.
John my closest major ‘walk-in’ supplier of LS here in BC is Art Knapps. (Operating on the side as Canada G-Scale, the major importer of LS north of 49) They are a chain of garden centers thru-out the province but they only have trains in one location. You would figure they would maybe at least have a little in their other stores as well. NOPE
Edit to add that my closest 3 LHS’s (all an hour away) are pricing their ART 332 brass at $10 and more per foot.
Randy - the answer I got last time I looked in to Art’s place on our way over to Ontario was that the huge stock of merchandise and the expense [as well as the sheeer convenience] of holding it all in one place had taught him that spreading it out to the other locations was not a viable proposition.
Here in UK we have chains of garden hyper-markets like AK’s - my local centre here makes AK’s look like a roadside shack, but any and all of my pleas to get some track and trains running has met with either apathy or the ‘we don’t sell toy trains’ point of view. That’s just soooooooooo sad, as we live in a pretty prosperous part of East Anglia and judging by the comments that Broos and I get when we set up a little layout and run steam and sparkies there are some lost opportunities.
tac, ig & The Soham Windmill Boys
I agree tac. Whenever I have been there and talking with Bob it seems as if there is no one could be interested in LS outside of his ‘Surrey’ world. He was amazed that I made a 2 hour trip to his store to purchase some track and a few other bits.
Track prices are relative. Someone will complain that track is too expensive but will outlay thousands on another hobby or sporting pursuit. A study done several months ago found that in 2015 consumers would not pay more than $399.00 for a 50" plasma/LED television and yet would be happy to outlay over $1000.00 for the latest release ipad.
Track is the often neglected component of our railroads. We will buy the latest Accucraft or AMS or Aristo or USA Trains locomotives and rolling stock and yet cringe over track purchases. We go for the cheapest nastiest solution that is available, making compromises along the way to keep track purchases as cheap as possible but not curtailing our other purchases. Most will not even invest in track clamps as a reliable means of maintaining continuity. Our trains are little more than shelf queens without track to run on.
I started with several LGB starter sets purchased on closeout back in the 1980’s. I did not go straight to a backyard railroading empire. Newcomers have grandiose plans that must be satisfied instantly. As a 1980’s Kung Fu teacher on a then popular TV series always commented, “Patience grasshopper, patience”.
Wendell Hanks said:
Nicholas - originator of this post - concluded, as has Tim:Until the industry starts making and promoting RELIABLE starter sets – you know, the large box with the power pack 'n track that is so infrequently seen in our hobby – the hobby will continue to be for those of us already in it. Even the major players in N and HO feature starter sets and actually advertise those sets in Model RR. Wow! What an idea!
Wendell has a good point. I got my start when I saw a Bachmann Virginia & Truckee train set in a box for $145 at the local hardware store at Christmas time. I said to my wife, “I want that”. She said, “Then get it.” I did. I expanded as time, $$$, and space allowed. I guess I’ve spent about $6-7000 over 10 years, that is, a little bit at a time - no major drain on the pocketbook, but no instant layout, either. It was built in five separate stages over about 8 years - and some of my locos were used or bought on sale.
On the cheap is a compromise as are all levels of modeling. In keeping with that philosophy you must realize that rail doesn’t need to be drawn into a correct rail configuration in order to work. Plain old strap metal of sufficient thickness set on edge into slotted ties/roadbed will work just as well to run trains and is a lot cheaper even though a bit more work. When the sides are painted a dirty rust color it doesn’t look all that bad from a couple or three feet away either. Price would vary according to the metal chosen of course and whether the railroad was track or battery or live steam.
Some early model railroads were built this way to save money and use what was at hand. As for slotted ties Truscale marketed for years an HO wooden roadbed with ties milled on top with slots on top in which to insert the rails to gauge. True, they did use formed railroad rail though but strap metal would have worked too if the slots were a little deeper.
Quite an extensive railroad could be built this way and the “real” rail could be used only for closer and more detailed areas as available. Not my first choice of course but I wouldn’t let the excessive cost of rail stop me from building and it can always be replaced as you can afford it.
when i first read the question, and who askes it, i rememberd a post from nick somewhere, where he anounced to have bought a whole fleet of identical black locos.
i thought, this part of the hobby will decline without doubt. simply because economics for the middle class are downwards bound.
i thought to write that this will give a renaissance to the “poorer” segment of the hobby. of those, who buy used and do build or bash what they need.
but thinking twice, i realized, that this answer would be too shortsighted.
if we look, what makes the hobby great, we see people who have extraordinary layouts. be it in their gardens, in cellars or on shows.
without these “apetizers” much less people would be interested in largescale.
but who makes these layouts? that are men, who got a garage full of tools and know how to use them.
but what happens? when they die there are no or few newcomers of the same kind.
while the older have a pocketkinife in their pocket and know to use tools, the younger have a cellphone and know how to use a computer.
yes, this hobby will decline to a small niche for freaks, because the scrap-building and bashing modellers will die out and the cheque-book modellers will have no cheques left.
my two inflated cents
You also have to take each generation into consideration. Most of the retired guys are from the baby boomer period. This gen is a hudge population when compared to my generation. Here is a good article on each generation and how they differ. Im a training officer at work and one thing they teach us is you cant teach each genration the same way because they differ so much. Take a look at this site it breaks it down pretty good. I think it also explains why we see a decline at the moment.
http://www.sustainable-employee-motivation.com/generation-gap.html
If you look at todays generation Y there is some hope. Its my generation that screwed it up Lol I think there is also one more generation at thats the current. I hear it being refered to as generation da or the dora generation. ou have to say it 3 times to get a reaction.
Hmmmm,
I don’t seem to fit my generation. Matter of fact, I don’t think I fit any one single generation.
Of course, my opinion may be a little biased.
Ralph
Ralph Berg said:Of course there are the exceptions. Im the same. I dont fit my generation. I do think they are correct about the majority. I can see it when training people etc.... Im sure some will argue it. Lol Thats called denial :)
Hmmmm, I don't seem to fit my generation. Matter of fact, I don't think I fit any one single generation. Of course, my opinion may be a little biased. Ralph
@Richard - IIRC Staver Locomotive in PDX has a gazillion feet of track that is made exactly using this bar-on-edge principal. As anybody who has been there will testify, not only does it look good, but you have to be pretty close to realise that it is not actually scale-section rail at all.
It would, of course, have cost about the same as a bijou floating home down by Elk Island if it had been the real deal track in stainless steel…
tac, ig & The Megler Bridge Boys
tac said:
@Richard - IIRC Staver Locomotive in PDX has a gazillion feet of track that is made exactly using this bar-on-edge principal. As anybody who has been there will testify, not only does it look good, but you have to be pretty close to realise that it is not actually scale-section rail at all.It would, of course, have cost about the same as a bijou floating home down by Elk Island if it had been the real deal track in stainless steel…
tac, ig & The Megler Bridge Boys
[b]Megler, Bridge & Co.
Thanks for the info ol’ buddy. While it doesn’t surprise me I didn’t realize that anyone was still doing track that way. I haven’t seen track like that in years and I’d really like to see his technique. Do you happen to have a photo or a link? It would be most helpful to show the “unwashed masses” what I’m talking about. 
hehe![/b]
John, above posting, is on topic and certainly he is on target - the Home Depots, Loews, OSH.
A running or even static display of a starter set with some plants. Add at least two photos of yards with a train and there is a commercial focus that will likely bring new customers – hopefully, familes so there will be at least one generation of interest.
Richard Smith said:tac said:
@Richard - IIRC Staver Locomotive in PDX has a gazillion feet of track that is made exactly using this bar-on-edge principal. As anybody who has been there will testify, not only does it look good, but you have to be pretty close to realise that it is not actually scale-section rail at all.It would, of course, have cost about the same as a bijou floating home down by Elk Island if it had been the real deal track in stainless steel…
tac, ig & The Megler Bridge Boys
[b]Megler, Bridge & Co.Thanks for the info ol’ buddy. While it doesn’t surprise me I didn’t realize that anyone was still doing track that way. I haven’t seen track like that in years and I’d really like to see his technique. Do you happen to have a photo or a link? It would be most helpful to show the “unwashed masses” what I’m talking about.
There is a guy that does that. I think hes from Australia. He has a web site on how he makes the track using the bar on edge. I thought had his link but cant find it. Ill try to track it down.
Some guy in Saskatchewan used this strap iron track to replace the New Bright plastic track, eventually he migrated/improved to alu rail. 
You know this whole thread reminds me of “the sky is falling, the sky is falling”. :lol:
Back to my cave to get my 'puter to behave.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
You know this whole thread reminds me of "the sky is falling, the sky is falling". :D :lol:
Ralph Berg said:No Chicken Little here :D Ralph
The number of members here at LSC has doubled in just a few years. This is not the only LS web-site with an increasing membership. Hardly a sign of a hobby in decline. Ralph