Ralph Berg said:
The number of members here at LSC has doubled in just a few years. This is not the only LS web-site with an increasing membership. Hardly a sign of a hobby in decline. Ralph .....No Chicken Little here
Ralph
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Some [url=http://members.shaw.ca/the.trainman/vcr/index.html]guy in Saskatchewan used this strap iron track[/url] to replace the New Bright plastic track, eventually he migrated/improved to alu rail. :)You know this whole thread reminds me of “the sky is falling, the sky is falling”.
:lol:
Back to my cave to get my 'puter to behave.
:o
Having worked in consumer products manufacturing for 30 years, I know that the manufacturer would need to step up to design and fund a display at the big box retailers. The retailers are willing to test such concepts if the manufacturer is committed to the concept. It could be a seasonal display only but it boils down to retail $ per square foot. They do it with ponds and fountains - working display with available shelf stock. A pond is a pretty good size purchase committment by the customer.
I can see several large hurdles - kids, derailments, damage, correct merchandise assortment, knowledgeable staff. Not sure it would pan out.
Joe Bussing said:
Having worked in consumer products manufacturing for 30 years, I know that the manufacturer would need to step up to design and fund a display at the big box retailers. The retailers are willing to test such concepts if the manufacturer is committed to the concept. It could be a seasonal display only but it boils down to retail $ per square foot. They do it with ponds and fountains - working display with available shelf stock. A pond is a pretty good size purchase committment by the customer.I can see several large hurdles - kids, derailments, damage, correct merchandise assortment, knowledgeable staff. Not sure it would pan out.
Of course large scale will always be around, basically everyone is feeling the pinch of the last few years but the good times will return, and with it there will be new products. You just have to shop around and maybe compromise a little on how prototypical you need to be. Have a look at your rail hobby magazines which are 5 or more years old and you will be surprised to see how many manufacturers and suppliers have come and gone, why should it be any different in the future?
So much has been written about track; true, it is a major portion of the cost of the hobby at the outset, but as a percentage of the cost the average guy in L.S. has spent is it really? Is it really necessary to have the exact prototypical rail for what you model? I ideally should use flat bottom rail for what I model but the most affordable rail I could find was stainless steel bullhead profile (English style) code 180 which looks great, works really well and who really cares what “proper” looks like other than rivet counters. See http://www.cliffbarker.talktalk.net/
Mik said:
You know, it's kinda funny. So many people say the cost of track is the barrier to new folks getting into the hobby. Yet a couple years ago I tried offering a circle of Aristo r-1s for FREE to any newbie who could say that was the main reason they hadn't started yet.....It took me almost 3 months to find it a home. 3 months!
So is it a real problem, or just an excuse?
Alot of people loved the idea of my Pizza at the shows, but in reality no one to date has asked me how to go about building a small layout like it.
My mainline is about 150’, inner is about 130’. Weeding that area is plenty for me, I’ve been encouraged to expand it more, I have the rail, but don’t plan to make it a foot bigger. Works fine for me, has big enough curves to run what I have and I’m happy with it. Big layouts are fun to see/run on, but the maintenance is rough, especially on an old guy.
Are they just going to disappear?
I beleive LS will always be around, theres just too much stuff on ebay floating around out there, but I severly doubt that LS will ever someday rival the smaller scales for participation like some were hoping just a few short years ago. I’m sure that the mfrs were hoping that LS could someday rival O or capture a segment of the aging HO and N crowd but that just isnt going to happen, ever. If anything is learned from the last few years its that a mfr should NEVER copycat their rivals, should NEVER offer oddball offerings while longed after meat-and-potatoes standards never get offered (theres still been no halfway affordable Northern, the single most common large steam loco ever, made available in LS) I could go on and on. It just blows my mind at some of the stupid decisions I’ve seen made over the years all in the name of satisfying what they percieve to be what the market wants, only to find that after the first 52 units are sold, no one else really wanted the other 1448 units made. Or lets have not 1 but 2 Big Boys on the market at the same, or better 3 GG1’s in every scale under the sun, and lets make the most nonscale toylike inaccurate copy (LGBs) the most expensive to boot! The economy has done damage, but alot more damage has been done internally to itself by questionable marketing decisions over the last few years. As much as I can’t afford their products, in my observation Accucraft has been by far the best at providing real, desirable items that invariably do sell out simply because they are real desirable models! and I think that niche is where LS will eventually settle at, Accucraft shows that yes you can build high quality reliable models, but you better be ready to pay big coin for them, guys like me will be mostly relegated to second hand items at train swap meets.
Victor Smith said:I understand....and I see no shame in it either, only pride! If I remember correctly you gave me first dibs on your Great Trains Superliners and F-40 that you had for sale? We all have passions, goals and callings.... I think you found all three with the Pizza layout Vic! ;)
Alot of people loved the idea of my Pizza at the shows, but in reality no one to date has asked me how to go about building a small layout like it.
40 some years ago when I was in college, S gauge & scale were doomed. I was able to buy lots of used and some new American Flyer at very low prices. 34 years ago I was forced to sell my American Flyer when we bought a house with no basement and only a 9X12 room for a layout. Ironically, S gauge and scale are fairly healthy today, although not a mainstay of model railroading.
My guess, based on this experience, is that something similar may be in progress for large scale. There will always be a group of us who have a passion for one of the various scales that comprise large scale. As long as those groups have sufficient numbers and cash flow, the product choices may diminish, but the scale will still remain healthy. And we may have to accept that for newcomers, a hollow rail brass track, like Lionel’s, may be a viable choice for getting started.
We should also recognize that the public in general tends to equate “large scale” with LGB. LGB has been on a rocky road in recent years, so many folks, who are not really hobbiests, may think the entire spectrum of large scale trains are suffering.
Until things settle out . . .
Enjoy your trains,
David Meashey
Large scale will always be around as long as im alive. Thats at least another 50+ years. I will never give up on it even if I have to make everything.
Dave Meashey said:
40 some years ago when I was in college, S gauge & scale were doomed. I was able to buy lots of used and some new American Flyer at very low prices. 34 years ago I was forced to sell my American Flyer when we bought a house with no basement and only a 9X12 room for a layout. Ironically, S gauge and scale are fairly healthy today, although not a mainstay of model railroading.My guess, based on this experience, is that something similar may be in progress for large scale. There will always be a group of us who have a passion for one of the various scales that comprise large scale. As long as those groups have sufficient numbers and cash flow, the product choices may diminish, but the scale will still remain healthy. And we may have to accept that for newcomers, a hollow rail brass track, like Lionel’s, may be a viable choice for getting started.
We should also recognize that the public in general tends to equate “large scale” with LGB. LGB has been on a rocky road in recent years, so many folks, who are not really hobbiests, may think the entire spectrum of large scale trains are suffering.
Until things settle out . . .
Enjoy your trains,
David Meashey
American Flyer is a horse of a different color…S gauge AF was “saved” by the same generations of baby boomers who effecively “saved” Lionel" by wanting to collect their childhood toys now as adults, or more correctly, wanted the childhood toys they couldnt afford as kids. That led to a re-interest in AF, and Lionel postwar trains and that resurgent interest to a reintroduction of the line from other manufactures.
Will that happen in LS? I kinda doubt it, as you say LS is kinda tied (yoked, chained) to LGB and as I see it, that of late has been one reason why the diminished interest, if peoples first introduction to LS is a $400 MSRP starter set at the LHS, I think interest wanes pretty quickly.
Hi, I’m fairly new to this forum and fairly new to the scale. I have been keeping up to date on G scale for over 10 years before starting to purchase now. I recently bought 2 Aristocraft GP40’s on clearance for $209 a piece. That’s the cost of some HO locomotives. Once sound and R/C are installed it will be about $500. That only about $50 more than the newest ATLAS O scale 2 rail locomotives cost, they have sound and dcc but not R/C. I have bought almost 250 feet of aluminum track for about $660 shipped, that’s about $2.64 a foot. To me, there are deals out there still. Yes, for me, the hobby is expensive but satisfying and I have to control my impulse spending. I want about 500 feet of mainline, a few switches and maybe 8 to 12 cars. Added up it seems like a lot of money and it is, but spend periodically over time it can be feasible.
I look at the hobby as a long term investment in happiness. When i married my current wife (don’t laugh - she’s number 4), she asked how much my hobby “inventory” was worth - then fainted. When I explained that everything was acquired over a period of 50 years and that if you spread that cost over all those years, it was a lot cheaper per year than smoking she was not quite so upset.
You have to look at the value you get for the dollar spent. Depending on the item, a dollar item or a $1,000 item can continue to make me happy. Do I get a 1,000 times more happiness - no, but if it’s worth it to me, then it’s okay. If I get enjoyment out of the $1,000 item for 20 years, then it’s only cost me $50.00 per year. That’s cheap happiness!
Course - the wife costs a lot more than my hobby. they all have…
Shh - don’t tell her I said that.
Steve Weidner said:
...............Course - the wife costs a lot more than my hobby. they all have…
Shh - don’t tell her I said that.
I think Large Scale will survive. If the economy ever gets squared back up again, prices will seem lower. The main problem is the shrinking American dollar, everything will be more expensive as long as it’s weak. If it gets stronger, so will our purchasing power.
Then what will happen is the export sector will hurt making USA exports more expensive.
I betcha the US$ is kept low for quite some time yet, to discourage imports.
Tony might a weak $ prompt more manufacturing return to the US???
That’s what a weak $ is for. More export, less import. But, of course, that means less stuff for us because we are exporting more and importing less. Then somebody else’s economy goes south and the drachma gets devalued. International economics is truly the ‘dismal science.’