Large Scale Central

Reverse Loop

Track and Trestles
#41

Greg, I was referring to the club set ups. Both HO clubs I belong to are DCC. And yes, the one with the Wye uses a toggle switch to control the polarity on the Wye and also on their balloon track (reverse loop). Somehow, they kept burning up auto reversers, so they don’t use them anymore. This was long before I joined, so I do not know the whole story, not the specifics of how they managed to burn them up.

Me, at home, with large scale, I use analog DC with my 2 reverse loops and bi-directional, single track main.

#42

Update: Work on the mountain pass has been moving a long at a snails pace. At this rate the first train up the mountain is going to be a snow plow!

This photo shows the arrangement a bit better. At the bottom left is the mainline bypass which curves around into another switch out of frame to the left and reconnects with the track coming off the mountain. This mainline continues on to and past the plant pot in the distance.

The track on the right heads into the tunnel and circles back around a 5’ diameter loop. The track through the tunnel has been soldered to form a solid 10’ piece and screwed to a PT 1x4. I don’t want to have any problems in there.

For the reverse loop section I have been laying out track in different lengths to find that functional- focal sweet spot. I think I hit the balance with a 36" isolated section. Once the track starts going down permanently this may change.

I hope to get more done this weekend.

#43

I had some time last evening and was able to put down some track in a semi permanent fashion. The 36" isolated section is now a longer 48" which will be able to acommodate a double headed train just in case.

#44

Sounds good. Per this discussion there would be a bunch of ways to accomplish your goal, but I think you chose the simplest method by only isolating that 4 foot connector that closes the loop. A double insulated break as noted by David (I think) will prevent any arcing from wheels bridging the gap as the train rolls through.

#45

…one of the greatest things I enjoy about Battery operated Radio control…sorry guys; I know it isn’t for everyone…but the joy of it is that I never have these problems…EVER. now back to the regular program on this thread…

#46

One of the greatest things about track power and DCC is:

  • never having these problems, the autoreverser is $40 and does all this automatically,
  • and oh, I can run as much smoke and lights as I want,
  • and oh, I can run for 10 hours straight
  • and oh, I ever have to charge anything, it’s always ready to go,
  • and oh, I don’t have to make my batteries removable to protect from fires,
  • and oh, I don’t have to give up small locos because there’s no room for batteries
  • and oh, I don’t have to couple a battery car
  • and oh, I don’t have to worry about batteries for my sound unit
  • and oh, I can run sound as long and as loud as I want
  • and oh, I have a power buss (the rails) I can use to light buildings from the track,
  • and oh, I can power accessory controllers for switch motors from the track
  • and oh, I have one button to stop all trains immediately, not just mine

Sorry guys, I know it isn’t for everyone…

(by the way, in my book, I am way ahead of your list Fred)

Greg

#47

Feeling a little put upon, Greg?

#48

So, as I said…it isn’t for everybody…You’re happy, and I’m happy…enjoy…I had no idea that it was a competition …

Fred

#49

Greg (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#50

I too run DCC, and, thanks to a suggestion from Greg, use the PSX-AR units to handle phase of my 3 reversing loops. It took some time though to find a way to automatically control the turnout, because the PSX-AR doesn’t like the switch machines I use (Train Li). Actually, I don’t know if it can control any large scale switch motors.

FWIW, here’s the build thread of that specialized loop controller. Greg E., Dan P., Todd B., and others, helped me figger this thing out, and it’s been working fine.

http://forums.mylargescale.com/39-dcc-large-scale/26951-psx-ar-control-proline-switch-machine.html

#51

Not feeling put upon at all guys, but when someone cannot control themselves and invades a track power thread to extoll the virtues of battery, he should expect some “balance” on the pros and cons.

Why do you battery guys feel compelled to do this? Everyone has made a choice, and if you really are doing this to tell the world how much better battery is, be prepared to receive the other side of the coin.

Fair and balanced information is what should be presented here, not just random snipes from the “opposing camp”.

Greg

#52

There is an ongoing discussion in another thread about battery packs. None of us track power guys chimed in and said that the problem would be easily solved by the OP going to track power. But most every time a track power question comes up, some battery/RC guy has to chime in with some comment about solving the problem by going to battery/RC.

I knew that this was the motivation for Greg’s post, since he has commented on this situation up before. Why can’t we, as a group, try and help a track power person with his question, instead of chiming in with “battery power would solve that”? Us track power guys don’t chime in with a track power comment to you battery power guys, when one of you has a question.

#53

David Maynard said:

There is an ongoing discussion in another thread about battery packs. None of us track power guys chimed in and said that the problem would be easily solved by the OP going to track power. But most every time a track power question comes up, some battery/RC guy has to chime in with some comment about solving the problem by going to battery/RC.

I knew that this was the motivation for Greg’s post, since he has commented on this situation up before. Why can’t we, as a group, try and help a track power person with his question, instead of chiming in with “battery power would solve that”? Us track power guys don’t chime in with a track power comment to you battery power guys, when one of you has a question.

Maybe we should chime in David? Track power is cheap and easy. I like the idea of grabbing any of my engines off the shelf placing them on the track and off they go for hours. I don’t have to worry about batteries being charged and when I buy a new engine I don’t have to tear it apart to install expensive gear. I have too many engines to convert and I exercise them all on a regular basis so track power makes the most sense to me.

On the other hand I don’t want to stir the pot so I won’t post the greatness of track power in a battery forum. The battery guys do have a point that any crazy track setup can be arranged without fear of igniting fires and they don’t have ot worry about dirty track but in the end I don’t mind setting up some blocks and flipping track side switches.

The track has now been connected on the mountain route! There won’t be a golden spike ceremony but we might cut a ribbon when the first official train heads up there. I still have wiring to do. The Reverse loop 48" section is isolated at both ends using plastic rail joiners. I was thinking about getting a piece of plastic track and cutting in a 1/2" section to avoid the arcing issue with metal wheels but then I had an idea why don’t I paint the brass track with a rubbery liquid like what is used to coat tool handles? Or I could use liquid electric tape.

I would only need to put enough on so a metal wheel doesn’t bridge the gap over the insulated joiner. That could be as small as 1/4 inch dab. I know it would eventually wear off but it would eliminate having to put in a short section of track and increase the joiners being used.

#54

Todd Haskins said:

I was thinking about getting a piece of plastic track and cutting in a 1/2" section to avoid the arcing issue with metal wheels but then I had an idea why don’t I paint the brass track with a rubbery liquid like what is used to coat tool handles? Or I could use liquid electric tape.

I would only need to put enough on so a metal wheel doesn’t bridge the gap over the insulated joiner. That could be as small as 1/4 inch dab. I know it would eventually wear off but it would eliminate having to put in a short section of track and increase the joiners being used.

I’ve done this.

At the Tortoise Bump crossing protection, I moved a “block insulator” to make the trains stop at the station while waiting for the other train to clear the crossing. Unfortunately, the lengh of the GP-9 wheel base was “just so” that as the GP-9 slid to a stop, its wheels would cross the block isolator at the same time that the front wheels would hit the detector allowing current to flow to the detector causing the opposing train also to stop.

Initially, I did as you suggest and put a few layers of CA on the spot (~1/8"). This did the job…, for a while. But track cleaning with a drywall sander will remove this coating over time. I eventually moved the block insulator a couple inches by cutting a section of track and the problem was gone.

If you intend to go this route, file the railhead down a bit and build up on that with epoxy/JB Weld so that when you clean track, you don’t remove the epoxy.

#55

Todd Haskins said:

Maybe we should chime in David? Track power is cheap and easy. I like the idea of grabbing any of my engines off the shelf placing them on the track and off they go for hours. I don’t have to worry about batteries being charged and when I buy a new engine I don’t have to tear it apart to install expensive gear. I have too many engines to convert and I exercise them all on a regular basis so track power makes the most sense to me.

On the other hand I don’t want to stir the pot so I won’t post the greatness of track power in a battery forum. The battery guys do have a point that any crazy track setup can be arranged without fear of igniting fires and they don’t have ot worry about dirty track but in the end I don’t mind setting up some blocks and flipping track side switches…

Todd, and that is where I am. Last count I had 30 locomotives, including streetcars and rail-trucks. I have more now but I haven’t counted them. The cost would be prohibitive for me to convert now.

I choose what I want to run when I stroll through the storage area, so I cant say tomorrow I wanna run that, so lets charge it. So to keep 30 plus locomotives all charged all at the same time…

My automated reverse loop circuit would not be necessary with battery power. How would I do the automated stop blocks with battery power? My mind boggles at the how tos for that. For me track power is the simplest way.

I have thought about chiming in on a battery/RC discussion, and even wrote a snotty post once. But since I have more respect for my fellow hobbyists then to post such a snotty comment, I just closed the window before clicking the post reply.

#56

Good choice in closing the window David, Trains are fun and to each their own, right? We like track power, others like live steam and others like battery RC. It is all good.

In RR news: The mountain route is still coming along. The track was connected without ceremony yesterday and this afternoon the wiring went in to power it. There is still much to do in building a bridge/trestle, laying more ballast and rocks and constructing some type of building to house the DPDT switch and track power switch.

The reverse loop is now working as I expected it to. If the train approaches from the right the switch needs to be flipped one way. the engine drives onto the 48" isolated section and I stop it. The DPDT switch is then flipped and the direction on the TE control is switched and the engine can then leave without causing a short. I think this was the simplest and cheapest way to do it.

The reverse loop won’t be used too much but it will be fun on occasion to send a train back the other way it came. I also tested a metal wheeled boxcar over the insulated gap and I didn’t see any arcing but will look again when it is dark out.

#57

Todd Haskins said:

Good choice in closing the window David, Trains are fun and to each their own, right? We like track power, others like live steam and

The reverse loop won’t be used too much but it will be fun on occasion to send a train back the other way it came. I also tested a metal wheeled boxcar over the insulated gap and I didn’t see any arcing but will look again when it is dark out.

Metal wheeled car may not do it. May need to be a lighted car with pick from both axles that span the gap.

#58

Todd yea lighted cars are a whole different issue. When I light mine, each axle pick up will be fed into a bridge rectifier to prevent car length short circuits.

As for the metal wheels, mine didn’t always short across the gap, but they did short enough to cause me to work out a solution.

#59

The arcing or short will be worse the slower you go. At normal train speed it happens so fast that it’s hardly noticeable. And yes, lighted cars without bridge rectifiers are a no-go across the gap. They will not just arc, they will short and shut down your power.

Glad you got it working as expected. I like the electrical tape idea at the gap. 1/4" on one side would do it. If it gets cleaned off it’s easy to replace. Milling down the track and installing epoxy sounds like too much work for me (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#60

Would this be the wrong time to ask for a pony?