Gee, all of that sounds like something to maintain. My solution is trouble free. An insulated Hillman’s clamp, a short piece of rail, like about a 1/2 inch long, and another insulated Hillman’s clamp.
At the time, way back then, I was using Hillman’s clamps, that I bought from the Hillmans. Now I would probably be using an insulated split jaw.
David Maynard said:
Gee, all of that sounds like something to maintain. My solution is trouble free. An insulated Hillman’s clamp, a short piece of rail, like about a 1/2 inch long, and another insulated Hillman’s clamp.
At the time, way back then, I was using Hillman’s clamps, that I bought from the Hillmans. Now I would probably be using an insulated split jaw.
I don’t see how this would solve the problem of lighted cars in this case. As wired, I would think that the candidate solutions would be: 1) don’t run lit cars off track power (e.g., Bachmann with 9 volt batteries), 2) both sets of axles of the lit car must occupy the transition block with the engine when the train parks, 3) bridge rectifier/diode protection within the lit cars, or 4) only pull the lighting from one axle per side on the lit cars.
This is why initially I suggested that it be blocked and insulated differently.
Todd Brody said:
David Maynard said:
Gee, all of that sounds like something to maintain. My solution is trouble free. An insulated Hillman’s clamp, a short piece of rail, like about a 1/2 inch long, and another insulated Hillman’s clamp.
At the time, way back then, I was using Hillman’s clamps, that I bought from the Hillmans. Now I would probably be using an insulated split jaw.
I don’t see how this would solve the problem of lighted cars in this case. As wired, I would think that the candidate solutions would be: 1) don’t run lit cars off track power (e.g., Bachmann with 9 volt batteries), 2) both sets of axles of the lit car must occupy the transition block with the engine when the train parks, 3) bridge rectifier/diode protection within the lit cars, or 4) only pull the lighting from one axle per side on the lit cars.
This is why initially I suggested that it be blocked and insulated differently.
Careful, Todd, you don’t want to suggest battery power, no matter how innocently. Greg is awfully thin skinned about this, and might take umbrage. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
Lots of people do run batteries for lighted cars, usually to save the $$ and hassle of installing pickups on the cars.
Being a little electrically savvy, it’s not such a big deal for me, and all my passenger cars came with pickups. With just a few components I have no issues.
But of course, here is a situation where there is track power and trying to handle shorts caused by differing polarities between electrical blocks. The key is not having any 2 parts of the train “spanning” one block, just like the “rule” we try to follow in DCC with autoreversing blocks.
If it was me, I’d modify the track to minimize the amount of changes to my cars, but that might not be the right answer for others.
Greg
Todd Brody said:
This is why initially I suggested that it be blocked and insulated differently.
David Maynard said:
Careful, Todd, you don’t want to suggest battery power, no matter how innocently. Greg is awfully thin skinned about this, and might take umbrage. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
No, would never suggest such a thing. You still need to put power to the track or use batteries, in one way or another, to light the cars. If you light them using the track, you are still subject to polarity issues in reverse loops, and if you light them from the engine batteries, you shorten your run-time.
So…, pick your poison and live/die with it.
It’s trade-off Todd B.
Your suggestion would have made the block plenty long enough to accommodate the entire train eliminating all polarity mis-match issues. HOWVER, that block would have been on the main. If trains are always run the same direction, this wouldn’t be a problem, BUT, if you change direction on the main often, you need to remember to throw that block polarity switch or the train runs into a reverse polarity section at mainline speed. The engineer would not be having a a nice day (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
The method chosen by Todd H. keeps the block off the main in an area that would only be used if reversing the train. No conflict with the polarity for mainline trains no matter which way this block is set. The trade off is dealing with lighted cars and arcing at the joints. There ain’t no free lunch.
Daktah John said:
It’s trade-off Todd B.
Your suggestion would have made the block plenty long enough to accommodate the entire train eliminating all polarity mis-match issues. HOWVER, that block would have been on the main. If trains are always run the same direction, this wouldn’t be a problem, BUT, if you change direction on the main often, you need to remember to throw that block polarity switch or the train runs into a reverse polarity section at mainline speed. The engineer would not be having a a nice day (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
No, I would wire it to allow for travel in either direction if that is what he wants to do. And you know that I could find a way to do it. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
Todd Brody said:
David Maynard said:
Gee, all of that sounds like something to maintain. My solution is trouble free. An insulated Hillman’s clamp, a short piece of rail, like about a 1/2 inch long, and another insulated Hillman’s clamp.
At the time, way back then, I was using Hillman’s clamps, that I bought from the Hillmans. Now I would probably be using an insulated split jaw.
I don’t see how this would solve the problem of lighted cars in this case. As wired, I would think that the candidate solutions would be: 1) don’t run lit cars off track power (e.g., Bachmann with 9 volt batteries), 2) both sets of axles of the lit car must occupy the transition block with the engine when the train parks, 3) bridge rectifier/diode protection within the lit cars, or 4) only pull the lighting from one axle per side on the lit cars.
This is why initially I suggested that it be blocked and insulated differently.
Todd I guess I didn’t make it clear what I was referring to. I was referring to the tape, epoxy, or paint to eliminate arcing with the metal wheels. Mi fix is maintenance free. As for lighted passenger cars, right now that is not an issue for me, since the block is longer then the passenger trains I currently run. My cabeese on the other hand do have an issue and right now are run with the pick ups removed. When I reinstall the pick ups, each one will be run through a diode (or bridge rectifier) so that they do not create a car length short circuit. I believe that I had stated that before, but I could be mistaken.
There is a little danger with lighted cars and locos… if you have a passenger truck, for example, and it has 2 axles, often the pickup is from both left wheels and/or both right.
So the 2 wheels can span the gap, and make a really nice short, right from wheel to wheel, normally through some thin wires.
This is the same for locomotives.
Theoretically, you need to make the insulated section longer than the wheelbase of any truck that has power pickup.
On top of this, there is usually no protection between wheels with polyswitches or fuses, normally a single wire representing 2 or more wheels on a truck is fused, so this does not protect from this type of short.
On locos you often see this when a loco derails in a switch, and some wheels are on the stock rail, and others on the points which are normally of opposite polarity.
For these reasons, either setting the polarity correctly as soon as a short is detected, whether relays or solid state, is a better solution. If the circuit can react quickly, often there’s no more than a small spark, the same as normal pickup sparks (watch track power at night)
Greg
Good points here about the shorts. I only have a few cars that pick up juice to power lights so those won’t be going through the reverse loop. Another concern are my LGB sound cars that I have converted to track power. Those won’t be making the trip either.
Something else to consider.
Once your train is running “backwards,” to run “forward” you are going to have to back your train through the loop, at least partially. That loop looks a bit tight to be backing a train through unless it is small equipment.
And when they derail in the backing process, how hard is access going to be?
And of course if you were to back lit cars though the loop…
