Large Scale Central

Response to Marc Horovitz

General Discussion
#41

Wendell Hanks said:

Simply, the word “GARDEN”. As I have harped previously, there appears NO memorable promotion of the hobby in photo-story-driven garden magazines. Is there evidence that our well photographed gardens are denied publication by garden magazines? Where are the photo stories showing a garden in full bloom, large or small – even if just animated with a simple dog bone of track?

Marc gets kudos for putting into summary the problem of us being a model railroad hobby. Now, go one step further and encourage the remaining manufacturers not to ignore what makes garden railroading unique: Gardens. What is promotionally missing is enlisting the huge parade of garden pictorial magazines to show what animating a garden with track and a train looks like.

Meanwhile don’t forget to proclaim, honest, these garden animators can stay outside.

Wendell

You can’t blame “Garden Magazines” for not promoting the garden railways hobby if they are not in touch with the hobby. Therefore, you can’t blame the manufactures for not advertizing in these other magazines because they see no market there, if that is what this post is getting at.

Maybe the garden railroaders need to send their stories/photos to “Garden Magazines” so they can see what they’ve been missing out on. Maybe we need to take the first step.

We’ve been featured in the Los Angeles Times, the Orange County Home Magazine, as well as on garden tours and are always a hit and inspiration.

#42

Korm Kormsen said:

…do you remember wooden rocking horses? or even these horseheads on a stick, children used to ride through the garden? they went the way of the Dodo bird. why? because kids don’t see grown-ups on horseback any more. so they don’t want to ride.

Korm, I had to laugh, because I used to see the one girl up the street, riding her horse-head on a stick, several times a week for 2 summers. She is older now, and I don’t see her at all anymore.

do kids of today see trains or even trams? most do not.

what they see is soldiers, dinos, comics and zombies on tv and electronics everywhere. and that is, what they want.

and their parents “want” to keep up with the half dozen of monthly rates they have for their multiple debts.

Yup, I see that too. Many trains around here run late at night, so as to have a minimal inpact on traffic at grade crossings. So the kids see the track, but the seldom see anything on the track.

well, to shorten my rant, in my eyes our hobby can not grow. new additions, like 3 d printing can draw it out somewhat, but our providers will go belly-up one by one, while we live on second hand items from deceased modelers and do-it-your-selfing of components.

that is sad. but that is, how it is.

edit: and, most of us are soo old, that we can give a $h*t about this.

Yes, I see that too. I am not “so old”, but I also don’t need much more then I already have. And this past year our local all scales club lost 2 members, may they rest in peace.

#43

Ha, I remember the days of riding my pony stick down the road. Waking up xmas morning and getting a cap gun and holster. and the smell of real cowhide. A GI Joe, and wind up army tanks. Dont know where im going with this but dont care.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#44

I’m not to worried about where the hobby is going. Other than perhaps the rail I need to hand lay my track and switches, I can scratchbuild everything else and have a functioning, fun to play with layout in the garden. IMAGINATION is the key… something lacking in this modern era of store bought instant gratification. It takes imagination to develop a garden and even more to incorporate a model railroad into that garden. Sadly, just about every outdoor layout I’ve visited in person is nothing more than an indoor layout moved outdoors where the space of a yard is the appeal and not the garden itself. That space allows a modeler to throw more track onto the ground and run bigger and longer trains around and around and around. Boring as watching grass grow in my opinion.

I play with SE (1:13.7n2) trains. There is a dearth of anything RTR in this scale which then requires scratchbuilding or kitbashing on my part. These two aspects require IMAGINATION. As a result of playing in this scale, I’ve migrated towards looking over at the UK outdoor railroad scene and hanging out on forums over there since this forum and it’s primary counterpart seem to be geared towards a different approach that doesn’t do much for me. I’ve stated to many of my contemporaries there that I’m in awe of their ability to marry “rail and leaf” into a synchronistic harmony in such small and tight spaces. My own layout takes many cues from their approach which tends to be a small layout geared towards live steam and operations set in a small yard that is easy to upkeep. The result of their influence is that I only use about a 20’ x 20’ piece of my half acre yard.

Most hobbies come down to $$ and time. In the current economic situation where unemployment/underemployment is growing and two incomes are increasingly not enough to sustain a family, the number of people in hobbies will shrink until things improve. My hobby at the moment is affordable because I do it on a shoestring budget and use my imagination to create a miniature world of my own making to de-stress from the crap of everyday life after a day of work. I’m not inclined to stress about growing the hobby when the economy will not allow it currently. I’m having fun doing my thing. That’s all that matters to me. If folk want to worry about the hobby have at it. I’ve got better things to do than curry favor with manufacturers to lure them into buying advertising space in a magazine.

#45

Dwayne

I would like to see some pics of your miniature world!(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#46

I certainly don’t spend enough to keep any of our suppliers in business… I do try to give at least one retailer my business where possible so that maybe he can stay around another day.

I have tried my hand at hobby promotion. I’ve been written up in GARDEN RAILWAYS and STEAM IN THE GARDEN several times, and have been in DOWN EAST MAGAZINE Last winter as well as a local free paper. I have been contacted by interested folks who read about me which is fun. I do not know how many starter sets I sold though.

I also keep working on my neighbor’s son… He is Really into trains. He got a Lionel polar express set. Kinda junky but he has run it on my track!

#47

Very interesting topic. The problem is a combination of what everyone has said. I think one of the biggest problems is time. Im a parent with young kids so I see it first hand with my kids friends. They have no time for themselves. Parents work all day, kids are in school. After school its shuffling the kids from one event after the other. Weekends are more of the same, except now they have their games, that take up a good part of the day. They go to bed late and always tired. The sad part is, I think a lot of kids would rather be home. I firmly think its a parents way of not having to entertain their children. You can disagree with me but I see and hear it first hand.

Is money really a factor? Dance lessons, football gear etc… is not cheap, smart phones and flat screen TV’s are not cheap yet people dont think twice about the purchase. If someone really wanted a garden railroad they would find a way.

Will advertising in different magazines or displays at Lowes really help? Its hard to say. Stores that have done it, was it successful? It doesn’t sound like it. The generation of people that we need to get into the hobby are the Millennials. That seems to be the generation that needs to get into trains and they are the ones that will pass it down to the their kids. How do we do this? Use the internet and social media to promote. Their are plenty of sites to get the information and buy trains. They have all the information at their fingertips, since this is the generation that uses social media and the internet and are good at it. The sad part is I blame my generation for the lack of interest. My generation of parents are the ones who run their kids from one event to the other. Their are plenty of people that love trains but never take it any further. I have many of these parents see my layout and love it, the kids love it and love seeing the trains, but why dont they get involved more. I tell them how they can build a simple layout, yet they never take it any further then conversation. One of the biggest problems I hear is time. This Generation of kids have no time to just sit at home and be outside. They are too involved in careers and running kids around and when they are home its the video games and smartphones Kids are not allowed to be kids. How many times do you pass the same houses day after day and never see anyone outside playing, just empty swing sets, bikes parked etc… My wife and I decided that we will not live that life style, my kids are outside playing in the yard like I did as a kid, they dont do sports, we dont run around all over and kill ourselves at work. My kids have the chance to see whats out their. Things like trains, the outdoors etc… I started at a young age but only because I refused to keep up with everyone around me. We enjoy our home and whats around us, we dont feel the need to run around so I make the time for the things I enjoy.

We also have to remember most dont get into a hobby until the kids are out of the house or retired. Retirement age has gone up. The Baby Boomer Generation is not getting any younger and they are the ones that help expand our hobby. I put the biggest blame on my generation of parents. We need to teach our kids that their is more to life then sports and work.

#48

You nailed it Shawn! Agree 100%.

#49

Me too Shawn. …

…"Kids are not allowed to be kids.

How many times do you pass the same houses day after day and never see anyone outside playing, just empty swing sets, bikes parked etc…"

Yesterday the two very young Chinese kiddies in the next bungalow up ( in an area where mostly retired people live )…were in the garden having great fun…you don’t here the laughter and sheer enjoyment from many kids like those two very often these days ( one of them singing Happy Birthday in English AND Chinese!!!

It was a tonic to hear kids really enjoying themselves…

#50

Ross Mansell said:

Me too Shawn. …

…"Kids are not allowed to be kids.

How many times do you pass the same houses day after day and never see anyone outside playing, just empty swing sets, bikes parked etc…"

Yesterday the two very young Chinese kiddies in the next bungalow up ( in an area where mostly retired people live )…were in the garden having great fun…you don’t here the laughter and sheer enjoyment from many kids like those two very often these days ( one of them singing Happy Birthday in English AND Chinese!!!

It was a tonic to hear kids really enjoying themselves…

The sound of children playing. The purest joy of our lives.

You probably just gave someone a brilliant idea: a multi-lingual 3D & Sound-Enhanced “APP” for phones that simulates “laughter and sheer enjoyment.”

(I’m only half joking, sadly.)

#51

Shawn Viggiano said:

One of the biggest problems I hear is time. This Generation of kids have no time to just sit at home and be outside. They are too involved in careers and running kids around and when they are home its the video games and smartphones Kids are not allowed to be kids. How many times do you pass the same houses day after day and never see anyone outside playing, just empty swing sets, bikes parked etc… My wife and I decided that we will not live that life style, my kids are outside playing in the yard like I did as a kid, they dont do sports, we dont run around all over and kill ourselves at work. My kids have the chance to see whats out their. Things like trains, the outdoors etc… I started at a young age but only because I refused to keep up with everyone around me. We enjoy our home and whats around us, we dont feel the need to run around so I make the time for the things I enjoy.

The words of a father who doesn’t have his head on backward. You can come and live next door to me and my kids any day. Thanks.

#52

Ok we are at full circle.

Either we send in pictorial articles to garden magazines showing gardens with trains .

Or

Manufacturers send them along with an accompanying ad - including how-to information.

Or

Garden Railways (Marc?) sends them with an offer to subscribe and a sidebar as to how to get information – remember the how-to booklets.

#53

The 32nd Annual Garden Railway Convention has a short article in the latest issue of The American Gardener Magazine put out by the American Horticultural Society. I guess it doesn’t get any better than that! I was actually contacted by them which I thought was pretty great. Here is a quick clipping I took form the proof PDF they sent to me…American Horticultural Society

To see the PDF they sent me go here

We are in the Regional Happenings section. It is probably too late to get any attendees from the magazine article but at least we are in a National Publication that is sent to all members of the American Horticultural Society. I consider this the hobby getting mentioned in a Garden Publication…

Russ Miller

NGRC 2016 Chairman

#ngrc2016

Find us on Facebook

#54

Shawn Viggiano said:

Kids are not allowed to be kids. How many times do you pass the same houses day after day and never see anyone outside playing, just empty swing sets, bikes parked etc…

Too true. Our entire neighborhood feels like senior housing or something. I go through the neighborhood day after day and almost never see a kid. And it’s not just the parents being too busy, it’s also the ridiculous, over-protective paranoia that has infected so many adults these days.

#55

Well the kids in my hood are active! There are several half pipes and moto cross jumps. For a while there was a crude 60’ zip line from a weak tree to a scrub tree in the wash. I wish I had seen that Darwin device in action! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

Now that the heat is here, I expect less activity, but the signs are still there. I’m glad they stay up in their yards.

John

#56

I joined a local Garden Club to learn about miniature plants, but most of the time, all I hear is about vegetables and/or water conservation. We’ve had a couple of meetings about bonsai, but nothing yet about miniature plants. I’ve shown them pix and explanations of garden railroads, but they are all about my age, and have plenty of hobbies on their own!

#57

To Dick Friedman and others who have shared garden railroads’ data to gardners:

What responses did you get and what can you predict you will get to the idea of animating a yard with a train?

I predict the unstated is “What! Leaving toys outside to rust? Setting them out every time you want to use them is labor intensive!” This is the unstated argument so often tucked in the back of the heads of people who hear me. I preempt the discussion by indicating, just as with the “real” RAILROADS, the track can stay outside with no damage – such as our track in its 14th year outside. Their responses show surprise which affirms my suspicion the unstated objection has been stated and resolved.

Further, the life-span of the track and the durability of the trains consistently is an unstated concern. In short, presupposing what the listener is thinking has worked - two neighbors, with NO interest in “model trains” put an “animating” train in their garden – with no miniature houses, no figures, just the train as a start!

What’s your own experience with listeners?

Whose kidding anyone.

If the remaining LS manufacturers or Garden Railways do not activate the gardening industry’s interest in yard animation with a train, its us. That’s right, submitting ideas to garden centers and photo stories to garden magazines for everyone’s self-interest increases the numbers of future customers --both for gardening and large scale trains.

#58

Wendell Hanks said:

To Dick Friedman and others who have shared garden railroads’ data to gardners:

What responses did you get and what can you predict you will get to the idea of animating a yard with a train?

…

Our response to Wendell H and others.

We got into the Garden scene about the same time a Wendell and yes watched it kind of go down hill in last few years to the public. We did a lot of Fri. night How to Shows on the internet for over 2 years and it was very time consuming. We did have a lot of viewers. Only thing was our connection was slow and we got tired of finding stuff to do. We tried to get a lot of this animation on with the Maz. but there seem to be more importance item than animation on a Garden R.R.

Lot of other problems was a lot of people trying to find animated stuff to work with on the internet or swap meets or time to just find parts to build with. It just was not accesable to a lot of people. We did tried to promote going to a goodwill or swap meets to pick up used toys to take apart the running gears. Very cheap way to go and we did most of our animation that way.

As far as leaving animated stuff out side, Yes some can’t be left out not unless they are sealed or enclosed in something. Like we have a Poke pass station that has a Semaphore moving up and down with a agent turning his head looking up and down the track for a train to be on time.

We showed how to make a auto Eng. house doors open one door at a time and close using just one button to work it or use a relay sys. These are enclosed and stay out all of the time year long. So yes some can stay out and think of it this way. Whew you have people you want to show off your layout it not to hard to show what you built and out it on the layout for them to see. I have a box of stuff that only take a few min. to put out even with the batt. that has to be inserted in the.

Lighting is a great way to show off beside some cheap sound cards around the layout.

Guess Its back to the times it take to make this animated stuff and back to guess the old days of have to make or build it your self. To us that part of the Hobby and not always depending on have to have it form a store. There are so many people on here that build things our of just plain parts laying around, one is Jerry Barns on what he has done on bashing anything together. Look what Korm and so many other have done.

So guess it really up to us and Clubs to hold more open houses and somehow make some eye catchers for the old and young people to see what can be done, kind of like Lionel did in the 40th and 50ths with there first animations. They were eye catchers for the hole family.

A Maz. can only do so much and seam like adding videos can put a person right with the action, but both helps and are needed in this hobby.

We are in the SVGRS club here in Sacramento, CA. and on the 32nd Conv. tour with others to show what we have done over the years on animation and trains running. We also will try to run our live internet cams during the day and into the night on night runs to hope to show our trains that can’t make it to a running layout.

P.s. Don’t mind our spelling, wording, but hope you get our feeling on how the hobby is going. It still very alive.

And now in our 80ths, hope this helps on what we shared was what Wandell H. and other was asking.

#59

Dwayne Weyrich said:

Other than perhaps the rail I need to hand lay my track and switches …

You COULD use brass curtain rail to make your track.

tac

OVGRS

#60

Dwayne Weyrich said:

Other than perhaps the rail I need to hand lay my track and switches …

You COULD use brass curtain rail to make your track.

tac

OVGRS