Large Scale Central

Response to Marc Horovitz

General Discussion
#1

Readers of Marc Horovitz’s editorial “The State of the Hobby” in June’s Garden Railways, was more than a simple snap shot of why the large scale hobby is diminishing. The reasons he offered were not unique - most have been seen and read here on LSC and are not disputed. The following August issue did not have responses to Marc’s list in the Letters section - maybe they are upcoming.

Here’s one:

While Marc is to be credited by putting to print the status of the hobby in the very publication manufacturers use, the manufacturers still do not implement both parts of this large scale hobby that are unique to model railroading. Simply, the word “GARDEN”. As I have harped previously, there appears NO memorable promotion of the hobby in photo-story-driven garden magazines. Is there evidence that our well photographed gardens are denied publication by garden magazines? Where are the photo stories showing a garden in full bloom, large or small – even if just animated with a simple dog bone of track?

Marc gets kudos for putting into summary the problem of us being a model railroad hobby. Now, go one step further and encourage the remaining manufacturers not to ignore what makes garden railroading unique: Gardens. What is promotionally missing is enlisting the huge parade of garden pictorial magazines to show what animating a garden with track and a train looks like.

Meanwhile don’t forget to proclaim, honest, these garden animators can stay outside.

Wendell

#2

Paul Race has always said we, as a hobby, need to get starter sets into Home Depot and Lowes garden centers, and I agree. But they’d need books about garden railroading handy, too.

#3

Our club does set up at one of the garden shows to promote Garden railroading. I do think it would make a difference if the Gardening hobby picked up trains as a side to their hobby instead of only model railroaders picking up gardening as a side to their hobby.

But let me ask. How many of us here are gardeners with a railroad versus model railroaders with a garden? Is there even very many people equally passionate about both? I don’t see evidence of that here. While we have gardeners here it almost always seems to be a case of gardening is a supplement to our model railroading.

#4

Gardener’s, like model railroaders, vary in all sorts of degree’s… Small, Medium, Large…

You can open a whole large can of worms trying to define it… Is someone with an engine and 2 passenger cars considered a model railroader??? Is some one with 2 plants in their garden area considered a gardener??? To be a true steam model railroader, does one need to burn their fingers running live steam??? Like i said, a whole large can of worms…

Our club, for a few years, got with a couple of different Landscapers and put a railroad in their landscapes on display at the St Louis Home Show, then we also set up the club layout at a few others, but I don’t believe the layout display gave much for a garden appearance…

I agree with Bob, and believe Starter sets & starter books should be sold at more places, besides a hobby shop…

#5

I, for one, do not consider myself a GARDEN railroader. I am an outdoor model railroader. I don’t really care for plants. They are all just weeds to me! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#6

Years ago they did sell the Aristo little critter sets at the Landscape Center close to where I live. It wasn’t a big seller. In fact, I think they has the same set on display for a few years. More exposure would be good. But the manufacturers or distributors need to get into that part of the game. So far…(cue sound of crickets)

Devon, My mom is the gardener. I prune my small trees and plant ground-covers. I tend to the trains and she watches them. Many households are like that; she gardens, he plays with trains. But, that sounds like a great way to have a great garden railroad. Now we just need to get more people interested in doing that. The manufacturers or distributors need to get into that part of the game. So far…(cue sound of crickets)

#7

Joe Zullo said:

I, for one, do not consider myself a GARDEN railroader. I am an outdoor model railroader. I don’t really care for plants. They are all just weeds to me! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Yup, and these are my biggest weeds.

#8

Now I see why Sue put up the great white wall. Your patio is higher than her property and you can see right in. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#9

Joe Zullo said:

I, for one, do not consider myself a GARDEN railroader. I am an outdoor model railroader. I don’t really care for plants. They are all just weeds to me! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

I think that’s part of the issue. Somewhere in the early 2000s there was a split that developed in the hobby between the gardeners who build a layout around a garden and the scale modelers who build model train layouts that happen to be outside. There is a clear difference of mindset. It’s still with us today. I think we all get along with the difference today but there were some heated disagreements back then. I think that has more to do with attrition thinning the ranks leaving the mostly established longer participants who were not as zealous as more recent migrants from the smaller gauges. Just my opinion.

#10

Interesting. I never really considered myself a “Garden Railroader”. I have a railroad in my backyard.

#11

Joe, yea…but I sit up in the yard when I watch trains. So it would be an even better view into her (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)I mean, it could be a better view(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif) Not that I ever(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif) But I could have(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#12

This time I really am a …

I am an avid subscriber to GR and always will be. Every issue is kinda like a pornographic magazine for me. When it comes in the mail I head for the bathroom and flip through the pages looking for the train porn pictures. I rarely read the articles cause Roosters don’t read or spell well.
I have a lot on my mind on this topic however now is not the time to put it in my way of explaining it. I will try and post back on this topic.

#13

Deb and I are in the Wendell camp.

We view our railway as a Garden Railway and we try very hard to integrate the garden and the railroad.

In the 90s the hobby was growing and I believe a significant part of this growth was the garden aspect promoted by LGB. The serious railroaders benefited greatly from the garden aspect. An outdoor railroad hobby is I fear a much smaller group of individuals for the manufacturers to support.

In my opinion, to get sets back in the big box stores the hobby must again grow outside the pure model railroad market.

We encourage the efforts to again grow the garden aspect of the hobby. More photos of the garden taken a few years back can found on our flickr site.

Stan

#14

Five years ago, when I was only a couple of years into my current layout, I tried to define the different types of outdoor model railroads in terms of garden-centric or railroad-centric. We all fit somewhere in between the two extremes.

http://www.rhyman.org/archives/286

Bob

#15

I for one would like to be considered both, I would love to have a railroad in my garden, but it is fairly difficult to grow lots of lush green things in a giant easy bake oven( Phoenix, AZ). As I begin my RR I am sure I will spend lots of money on plants I WANT to have , before I find out what plants I CAN have, but that will be part of the fun.

I do wish the hobby could get something going with nurseries or garden centers, but as far as Home Depot or Lowes or Menards, they ONLY deal is stuff that moves well, go from a HD to a Lowes in my area and you can almost find the exact placement of items in their sections, sometimes a brand name has changed, but if you cannot find it at one place , very seldom can you get it at the other.

I have heard of a large garden center in the San Diego area with a GRR, Greg, Vic, or Ray can probably tell me if it is still running, so they are around , but wow do we need more to get more people involved to quote David, cue the crickets.

#16

I can grow a nice rock garden, but it’s heck on my scissors pruning.

John

#17

What got our family into garden railways was the animation. Animating the yard at night with an overly lit passenger train among the roses not only affirmed our decision it was an asset to our yard - it also made a convert of two of our neighbors who had no previous interest in a model railroad. They then built their own.

So what is missing is the promotion of a GARDEN railroad providing movement and animation to what, for many, is a static display of plants. This is why people install koi ponds and bubbling water effects. It animates the yard.

That’s the animation appeal that is POSSIBLE with photo promotion and stories in gardening magazines – and even a circle of track and an 0-4-0 pulling a passenger car at a nursery among the plants with a notation of the nearest hobby shop.

Meanwhile, the mfgs. continue to advertise and try and sell a limited cadre of products to those who already have everything to run in their yards.

Wendell

#18

A thought provoking thread.

There seems to be little or no interest in outdoor railroads in gardening magazines and by garden plant and furniture suppliers.

Here I spend - along with my wife who is really the one in charge of the garden - quite some time throughout the year. Anyone with dirt level track will appreciate what I say. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)Maybe the answer lies with us: mention to our suppliers, both model and garden that their focus is too narrow and could result in more sales if they widened their horizons.

I know ‘roundy roundy’ may not be that rewarding, as far as operations are concerned, but it does allow for running trains when other garden work is to be done.

#19

We, too, are Garden Railroaders. With the exception of the major benchwork pieces, we could remove the railroad from the garden with minimal fuss and still have great gardens.

#20

LGB instigated the trains in the tulips concept and when that caught on a rash of imitators came along. Early equipment was more caricature like than prototype but it caught the imagination of many smaller scale model railroaders. As more of them became interested, the demands for more prototypes and detail and in many cases the manufacturers obliged. When prices started going up due to the quality of living in China going up it eliminated many potential customers due to the price. The huge increases in the price of track was no help. Manufacturers like Bachmann and Aristo all but abandoned their low price less detailed equipment so as to appease the accuracy zealots with more and more new detailed equipment, more than the market could absorb. This left those of lessor resources little option but to buy on the used market or find other hobbies or scales. Many who started out early dumped their original caricatures for newer products which provided a used market but did little to spur sales for the manufacturers. In many ways the industry self destructed by not providing equipment for all price levels allowing beginners and those gardeners to animate their gardens without mortgaging the house.

I did not read Mark’s editorial as I gave up GR several years ago, too little for the money and lack of content that interested me so if I repeated anything he may have said it is purely coincidental. The above is my 2¢ worth.