Large Scale Central

Promoting Large Scale

General Discussion
#41

Book of Rooster chapter 1 verse 1

As for attracting the youth into Large Scale trains or model trains for that matter. I see a lot of yes,no,yes,no… well yes and no …from what has been posted already. What I have observed myself with a layout visible to the public for over 5yrs on a main street and a 13yr old son, also not to mention helping out with an annual Lionel public display. Scratching head!

I have no answer other than what I have learned from my elders …you put into their head what you have learned and so on. I think in order to attract them to the hobby you must first put them in front of the 1:1 situation. Meaning we knew we wanted a “model train” when we saw the first 1:1 TRAIN. My first experiences were seeing Penn Central,B&O,C&O,Westen Maryland,CHESSIE (what a beautiful paint scheme) Uboats ,Geeps ,Alco’s,Baldwins etc…

As one of the younger crew here on LSC when I was my sons age PONG and PAC MAN were available but not affordable in my childhood home. But HO model trains were as there was a hobby shop 2 blocks up the street. What I have observed in today’s society …the electronic garbage has taken over …as I post this on it.

You wanna get a kid into the hobby you show them the real thing one time…whether steam or diesel either way it shakes the rails , challenge their minds and show them what has been can be and probably will be some day if you challenge their minds.

Book of Rooster chapter 1 verse 2 " If you wanna learn something ask an old guy"

That make sense?

This is just my long winded opinion though!

:wink:

BTW Mr Golding has done a FANTASTIC job of attracting the youth with his Timesaver …over the years from my observations. He scares me when he rattles the dice in the station stop.

#42

Mark Dash said:

The problem facing this hobby is the xbox, internet and ipod

Yes!

#43

Wow Rooster had one of these moments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

In all Honesty I have to agree with ya nRoos.

#44

Alot of time when we set up the modular layouts at events, I see the kids having interest and the parents are just dis-interested and do not even care. It is sad to see.

On a side note, I have been to alot of train shows where the train guy are less than hospitable, they would rather talk amongst themselves than talk to future hobbyists.

#45

Nico Corbo said:

On a side note, I have been to alot of train shows where the train guy are less than hospitable, they would rather talk amongst themselves than talk to future hobbyists.

I agree. At ECLSTS Ric Golding is about the only one that encourages kids to take controls and run the trains. Watching them go round the big modular layouts is fun, for a while, but actually getting your hands on the controls and making it go is a whole different story.

For my very small part I have been encouraging my 9 y.o. niece. She is my engineer for some of my home layout operating sessions. I brought her along to Bob’s TrianOps session this year and she had a blast running trains around the layout on Friday. Maybe next year she will be ready to work the ops session.

#46

Stan Ames said:

It is clear that our numbers in Large Scale are shrinking at the present time.

There’s a lot of statements madei in this thread that are less than rigorously defined from a scientific perspective.

Stan - why is it clear? Who did the research? What are the criteria? And to the rest of you making such statements: how do you know? Are you just makng assumptions?

One of the painful things over on MLS is the ‘newbies’ who arrive regularly and ask all the same old questions. They haven’t stopped coming (I stopped answering the same old questions.)

Is the perceived ‘shrinking’ true of just large scale, or is it true of all hobbies? All model RR scales? Is it a result of the recession, or other economic factors?

There clearly needs to be entry-level train sets available, and I agree that the demise of the local model shop makes them difficult to find. But the current youngsters are used to watching reviews of products on Youtube and buying them online. Piko and Bachmann, with the Thomas line, are doing a good job?

But it appears those video games have decimated ALL hobbies, not just ours!

#47

My research is based on what I have actually seen in my area (New England).
And I will say again, there are no young people involved in this hobby, if there is they are few and far between.
From what I observed at The Big E train show in Springfield MA the past two years, all of the kids that were their seemed to be just getting dragged around by there parent… I seen little to no interest at all from children, other then wanting candy, soda, and crying to go home.
From my yearly visits to Charles RO (at Christmas Time) I pretty much see the same thing.
The kids love looking at the layout upstairs and watching the trains go around… but once they get down to the sales floor, they just want out.
Yes there are a few (very few) that seem like they are very interested, but when I see them on the sales floor with there parents they mostly just look at the Large Scale selection (because it is well displayed) and they are buying HO/O scale items.
The only people I see buying Large scale items when I am at that store is adults, usually by themself, no kids attached…

If you cant get children or a younger crowd interested in Large Scale after visiting a store like Charles RO, I really don’t know what else you could possibly do to gain there interest in this hobby.

#48

Why worry about it? Just run your trains and have fun.

#49

In many respects we are experiencing the halcyon days of hobbies in general not just the model train hobbies but those doing plastic model aircraft, tanks, ships, cars and so on. The availability of items in all these hobbies is at an all time high and I believe most of that is due in part to the Boomer generation. I also believe as this generation passes that the following generations will not have the interest in hobbies that require mechanical skills and large investments in time that most of these hobbies require and there will be a decline in all of them. Those brought up in the computer generation with smart phones, Ipads, computer games, social media will not have the patience for such things. I image a few will carry on the traditions but I see the industry in general shrinking.

But I agree with Jerry, enjoy what we have now and if our toys some day end up in museums, so be it !

#50

Twenty years ago I was teaching “The basics of model railroading” as an evening course for one of the schoolboards. In classes of twelve there would be one kid.

Later we started “Beyond the Basics” i.e. hands on covering bench work, track laying, scenery, electrics, structures, weathering equipment and structures.

How many kids (minimum 12 years old)? One!

That was twenty years ago! Most of today’s distractions had yet to be invented.

The people in “The Basics” were looking for a hobby (new or additional), the people in “Beyond the Basics” wanted to learn new skills, spending a limited amount getting their feet wet.

Three comments that stood out: “Wow there is a lot to learn!”

“Forget it, we’ll buy them from you” after they were done building one detailed conifer.

“It took me years to get over my paralysis and start building, after seeing your layout” (when I met the guy many years later at a show in Vancouver).

One more thing “the you don’t have to buy all that much” routine (often cited) has limited appeal i.e. you need the skills/aptitude and the tools to scratch build. And the other one about the simple oval … the limited attention span will soon be used up.

But there are exceptions, friends have two boys who are train nuts, I started them with “Thomas” on wood track. They also live close to a train line. Hear and see it every day!

#51

Jerry Barnes said:

Why worry about it? Just run your trains and have fun.

Jerry,
that statement is fine with two provisos. firstly, you have all you will ever wish to buy and secondly that you have the skill to make what you cannot buy.

For the most part many do not fit either proviso. If a manufacturer senses a decline in the market, say by declining sales figures, then economically is he going to invest in more product for the market? Will he only manufacture short production runs leading to higher per unit costs? Will he decide not to manufacturing exquisite high detail models for the masses and stick to dumbed down versions, say like the Lil Hauler variety.

Having a ‘who cares just ignore the situation’ attitude will not promote the hobby for the many modeller that have another thirty or forty plus years remaining to enjoy what may or may not be in the market in the future.

#52

I take a slightly different slant on this subject.
Of course I have no hard evidence that model railways are shrinking,but I think we would all agree rhey are shrinking and have been for a long time.

Electronic games are supposedly to blame.
Then why is it that R/C hobbies are booming?

They are booming to such an extent that one R/C radio maker is now offering a 10 model memory clone of the Spektrum DX6i TX for just US$62. They can only do that if there is a market big enough to absorb the level of production that is required to achieve such low pricing.
To paraphrase Julius Sumner-Miller, “Why is that so”.

I humbly submit that it is because you can actually do something competitive with cars, boats and planes. 2 and 3 dimensional toys instead of one dimensional trains. The level of sales of quadracopters is astonishing. What you can do with them is astonishing too.

No wonder action hungry kids absorb them.

I can well understand why. Perhaps they consider action toys are a bit more fun for them than silly old trains running around in circles eh???

Personally I will stick to trains for my pleasure as us old Phfarts are a dying breed. :wink:

#53

Tim Brien said:

Jerry,
you have the skill to make what you cannot buy.

And so do you Tim so why not give it a rest? Have you READ thoroughly through this thread?

:wink:

#54

Pete Thornton said:

Stan Ames said:

It is clear that our numbers in Large Scale are shrinking at the present time.

One of the painful things over on MLS is the ‘newbies’ who arrive regularly and ask all the same old questions. They haven’t stopped coming (I stopped answering the same old questions.)

I have to say, this is honestly probably one of the reasons you don’t see a lot of growth. A lot of new people do ask the same questions. Instead of screaming at them to use the search button, try providing useful links to similar topics. I can’t tell you how many forums i am active on, but the ones that are hostile to new members who ask the dumb questions we all started on, don’t last.

This is not directed at you, just a general point sparked by the comment.

#55

Maybe this is also just a lull.

I know i am young and interested, just how i am. But maybe when all these high action RC kids grow up, and learn an appreciation for slower and finer things in life, they’ll turn to model railroading?

Like many have said, railroads just arent as big a part of life as they once were. And im positive that has something to do with it.

#56

Instead of spending money pursuing the kid market I feel it would be far more productive pursuing the oldies market. That market potential is expanding all the time. There must be plenty of older folk who could get interested in Large Scale, even if the excuse is “it is just for their grandkids”.

#57

One way to view to the original question might be to ask, What makes it hard for the newbie? And from my newbie perspective, that’s been answered quite well. But, if one were to further ask, what makes it hard for a newbie in areas that a forum might be helpful in, that’s a slightly different nuance.

Here’s some examples.

It’s hard to gradually realize that your track, engines, control system, etc. may be nowhere near up to the task. The forum is a gradual method by which to be exposed to the realities, but it would be nice to have perhaps a series of Powerpoint presentations or videos or web pages, dealing with the key issues you’re about to face. And someone to point you to them. And even someone to mentor you through the initial discoveries.

It’s hard to be suddenly faced with the main controversies, especially those that impact near-term buying decisions. For example, traditional track power vs. DCC vs. battery. Clearly this is a central issue, and it’s seriously not fun as a newbie to be confronted with the technologies (when you didn’t think there was more than one way to go), and to realize all the money necessary to make ANY approach work. It was daunting to me, and I’m sure it is to others. So why not a series of debates, even if just audio versions or captured chat room discussions? And evaluation spreadsheets to help you weigh the factors?

It’s hard to realize that there are no particular scale standards. Yes, I suppose most folks just chuckle warm-heartedly when a newbie asks the telling questions, but from the newbie perspective this matter can be maddening. Yes Virginia, there are at least five scales running on the same track. Some manufacturers make some, some make others; and some are going out of business, so watch out! Anyway, why not produce a decent powerpoint or web video of why LS isn’t the same as N / HO / O / etc. in regards to scale, how the different scales evolved, where the manufacturers line up, etc.? I know that there are qualified experts here and on MLS on these matters. And who knows, maybe they would volunteer to tell that story, and someone would volunteer to capture it on video as a web-only production.

Also, it’s hard not to have a club to attend. I agree that’s important, but some of us just don’t have one within a reasonable driving distance. So perhaps there could be a virtual equivalent, like a subset of the forum broken out into local groups or “clubs.” You can only join, for example, the club in your local area code(s). That way, you could have private discussions with people near you, and at least go out and have a beer. And who knows, maybe a real club might form.

Well, that’s a few of the main things that come to mind.

Best regards,

===>Cliffy

#58

Good bit of info for your 3rd post on LSC

Welcome Cliffy !

#59

Here’s another idea that would really help newbies. Set chat room times, hosted by vetted moderators, on particular topics.

#60

Thanks David.

And you remind me of another thing. The newbie doesn’t have any idea of what all the rules are. For example, you David might be the moderator here, or someone big in the industry, but I wouldn’t know. It would be nice to have a go-to person to ask dumb questions in private. But there isn’t, and everyone has to endure my lack of knowledge, and I have to endure the sometimes (understandably) chiding response.

But thanks for your welcome, and compliment! You knew it was my third, huh?