Stan
I am not sure how you can easily attract new Large scalers. I do know some of things that I found when entering the hobby. In our area there is very few clubs. I live near three local clubs in the smaller scales but no organized club in my area for large scale. Yes there is a club that gets together at fellow large scalers homes. However that is not well publicized. I tried to get a module club going in our area but had no takers. I think if you are going to get people involved in our hobby you would do a world of good exhibiting @ shows. There is limited participation @ train shows in our area in “Large Scale” category. That being said, our ranks are not getting any younger and this also limits participation in shows.
When I started out I learned by mistakes. Some equipment won’t run on these sized curve. Some large scale is different sized than others etc… I think this maybe another draw back. O, HO, N scalers always know there scales and what they are getting. An example of this would be LGB most of there equipment is around 1:22.5, maybe 1:24. However there Amtrak equipment is more like 1:29. I dont’ post this to start a war just using it as example of where we are @. A new modeler may not want or be able to afford learn by mistake in terms of hobby equipment purchases. I am in my 40’s. I truly hope we can attract new modelers to the hobby. If we don’t Largescale manufacturers may disappear later in my lifetime.
Markets shrink because the people controlling the market do not choose to advertise or choose poor advertising methods. Lionel, American Flyer and Marx were very successful during the late 30s, 40s, 50s and early 60s with toylike trains because they focused marketing about a specific time of year. The end of year holiday season saw more concentrated advertisements and active displays at the sales sites during those several decades. Most major department stores in major cities had one or more train layouts on display in toy departments starting about the 1st of October and continuing to about the 15th of January. These layouts were both displays and advertising for the product. Based on disposable income percentage for this several decade, the pricepoints for toy or model trains are consistent just as the price of other commodities is.
The marketing thrust changed with management in the toy train companies and the in the department stores and the tried and “true” method was discontinued over time. This lead to the slow demise and disappearance of toy train manufacturers coupled with the advent of “scale” model railroading.
Perhaps it is time to reinvent old methods to increase interest in large scale railroading.
Respectfully,
Gordon Perrin
what can one do to make the LS-hobby grow?
very little at the moment.
although politicians worldwide tell us how much better our lives get dayly, people have less spare money, smaller houses and gardens and, and, and…
the young ones often grow up without real trains, even in movies trains are only shown, when they are blown up.
so where from should come the desire for trains?
sometimes i think, most of the LS newcomers are former smallscalers, who become too shaky and blind to rerail their N-scale stuff.
what WE can do?
we could stop telling everybody, that they need 20’radius curves for their 20’ wide space.
we could tell them, how to best use R1 track, instead of telling them that it is unusable.
we can go on showing how one can build ones own rolling stock.
we can go on and enhance how-to explanations for repairing the faulty ready-to-run stuff.
we can try, not to look down our noses at those, who have very small layouts, less than a dozen locos, only simple DC and so on.
the way, our world is headed, we will have less and less cheque-book “modelling”, and more and more scratchbuilding and repairing in our future.
big RR empires will become less and lesser in numbers. small cellar and garage layouts will increase in numbers.
what we can do, is adapt to these inevitable changes.
(just take a look over the pond to GB, where economics have “evolved” farther already.
in the forums there, smaller layouts and do-it-your-self solutions have won lots of space over “look-what-i-bought” threads)
I hope I am wrong, but it appears everything has its time. When was the last time you saw anyone playing agates or stickball? During the 20-30s every boy collected either stamps or coins. 40’s brought the age of balsa model airplanes and matchbox cars. After WWII every boy had a Lionel or American Flyer train and had a bedroom full of styrene model planes . The 50-60’s bought us model cars and HO.
How many kids do you know that collect stamps or coins? or put together and paint model planes or cars? How many kids have a Lionel or American Flyer in a box under their bed and run home from school to play with it?
Look at the clubs. Independent of scale, almost all members are 50+. The generation that had trains as kids. Without getting the youths involved in the hobby, will it go the way of stamp collecting?
Youth is often encouraged by the example set by adults particularly parents. If parents are interested in a hobby and encourage interest in youth, then a younger generation will retain interest in the hobby. People under 30 and most children do not have the financial resources to participate in hobbies and crafts without resources provided by older generations. The reasons that clubs are older is because expendable income for luxury items is greater for older people.
Lamenting the demise of a hobby because there is more inertia not to act than to act is typical. Action is necessary and sometimes brings with it a cost. There are no free lunches! Clubs as well as individuals have to sacrifice some time and finances to perpetuate their chosen interest. If that choice is denied the inevitable decline occurs. By the by manufacturers bear some responsibility also. The only manufacturer currently sponsoring an event is Aristo-Craft (ECLSTS). Many manufacturers attend this event but sometimes attendance is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Two individuals also sponsor events at their garden railroads each year that have gained increasing support and interest. These types of activities are what generates and maintains interest in large scale model railroading.
Activity is the key! Clubs and individuals have to take a more proactive stance regarding layout displays, operating sessions and shows. It works in other scales! Why not in large scale?
Respectfully,
Gordon Perrin
How can we promote the hobby?
Affordable track.
Affordable realistic engines
Lets face it, the current trends in large scale has become its own worse enemy.
Track price has to come down. Its perhaps the single highest price deterent to accessing the gauge. When track was $4/ft, it was reasonably accessible. At up to $8/ft its just too dam expensive even for a small layout. Getting track down to even $6/ft would soften the blow.
We need affordable reasonably detailed engines and rolling stock but aside from the Big Hauler line most stuff has gotten much more expensive, but also the supposed demand for larger and more expensive stuff is also what is in the long run going to really hurt the market by conntinueing to squeeze out access.
Bachmann had the right idea with the Lil Hauler line but I think by ‘dumbing them down’ the detail they misfired and alienated alot of modelers who if they were just a bit more detailed, siderods and trucks, would readily purchase them.
Vic Smith said:
How can we promote the hobby? Affordable track. Affordable realistic engines Lets face it, the current trends in large scale has become its own worse enemy. Track price has to come down. Its perhaps the single highest price deterent to accessing the gauge. When track was $4/ft, it was reasonably accessible. At up to $8/ft its just too dam expensive even for a small layout. Getting track down to even $6/ft would soften the blow. We need affordable reasonably detailed engines and rolling stock but aside from the Big Hauler line most stuff has gotten much more expensive, but also the supposed demand for larger and more expensive stuff is also what is in the long run going to really hurt the market by conntinueing to squeeze out access. Bachmann had the right idea with the Lil Hauler line but I think by ‘dumbingthe down’ the detail they misfired and alienated alot of modelers who if they were just a bit more detailed, siderods and trucks, would readily purchase them.
Yup, that about sums it up, when i got in the hobby a 5foot track was like $5 and was easily added to the mainline without the CEO noticing. When the price went up to $35 for that same piece of track, well that’s kinda hard to get passed the ole budget.
Blame it all on track people, it’s the price of metal that kills this guage…
And yes I’m still waitin’ for an ALCo c-425 to be released.
Vic Smith said:
How can we promote the hobby? Affordable track. Affordable realistic engines Lets face it, the current trends in large scale has become its own worse enemy. Track price has to come down. Its perhaps the single highest price deterent to accessing the gauge. When track was $4/ft, it was reasonably accessible. At up to $8/ft its just too dam expensive even for a small layout. Getting track down to even $6/ft would soften the blow. (Snip)
$6.00 a foot for brass track is a good deal?
Eight years ago, I paid $600.00 for 300 feet of Aristo’s stainless .332 track. I bought 4 boxes of 5 ft track (12 per box) and got another box “free” in their sale. That’s $2.00 a foot for stainless! I think that brass was $1.50/ft at the time.
Inflation hasn’t caused that much of a price increase, has it?
Steve Featherkile said:
Vic Smith said:
How can we promote the hobby? Affordable track. Affordable realistic engines Lets face it, the current trends in large scale has become its own worse enemy. Track price has to come down. Its perhaps the single highest price deterent to accessing the gauge. When track was $4/ft, it was reasonably accessible. At up to $8/ft its just too dam expensive even for a small layout. Getting track down to even $6/ft would soften the blow. (Snip)$6.00 a foot for brass track is a good deal?
Eight years ago, I paid $600.00 for 300 feet of Aristo’s stainless .332 track. I bought 4 boxes of 5 ft track (12 per box) and got another box “free” in their sale. That’s $2.00 a foot for stainless! I think that brass was $1.50/ft at the time.
Inflation hasn’t caused that much of a price increase, has it?
Has to be inflation cause the price of say copper has only doubled in the past 10 years %1.5 vs $3 per pound
if i remember right, i was not the only person to use ironrods, aluminium rods or even curtain rails as track, because of the then high seeming prices.
just look over the fence! the Gn15 guys for instance. they build nearly everything themselves.
and they grow in numbers.
i personally think, that those people, who are really interested in LS will find a way to realize their wish.
it is just the Ready-to-Run crowd, that gets shellshocked by prices.
not to say Ready-to-Repair stuff. even the holy LGB has started to sell faulty products.
what do we want to promote?
“hey, guys come to join LS! buy faulty, overprized products and get crappy service!”
there are less and lesser people who got any emotional bonds to trains, anf there are less people able or willing to do something with their own hands.
so smaller numbers it must be for the future.
i am into largescale, because i like it. are you guys into largescale, just because many others are as well?
At one point in time real railroads were crucial to our way of life. The trains provided transport to work, to holidays, to visit relatives. Trains also provided freight to our stores and delivered the mail. Private automobiles were not that common. People relied on trains.
Today’s world is a different place. Trains for the most part are not essential, but rising diesel fuel prices are seeing a comeback in containerised freight transport by rail.
Now put this in perspective. Interwar and postwar, model railways were popular. Children saw trains as commonplace. They travelled by train to get most places in the city. In today’s world it is the private automobile that rules the waves. Kids get transported everywhere by their parents or almost just out of nappies are old enough to drive their own car courtesy of our affluent society. There is no real need for trains for transporting children as was common in past years, so why would they have a hobby interest in them?
With the decline in popularity of trains was the rise in demand for radio control cars. Kids relate to cars these days, not trains. I feel the era of the train hobby has passed by. Us old timers have been simply oblivious to the needs of the younger generation with instant gratification achievable from buying a ready to run R/C car. Also important is the speed sense factor. Trains are too slow for our younger population.
Not every child is a potential ‘train enthusiast’. How many parents ‘reliving their dream’ buy train sets for the children only to see the sets ignored or trashed. The younger generation have different ‘needs’. I know that even as a child there was a stigma attached to admitting that one was interested in model trains and today it is worse. Society views adults with their trains as playing with toys.
It is an insurmountable quest these days to interest children in hobbies that their parents participated in. My son is almost tyhirty and has seen me with trains most of his life. Yet, he has no interest in train modelling. He does however build museum quality military models (something that I have no interest in).
Children these days are technology inclined. They want communication devices to ‘keep in touch’ with their peers. Even a computer is not a computer as such, but a means of communicating with the outside world. Alas, trains do not have a chance in competing. Children want something ‘new’, not the trains daddy used to play with when he was a kid.
I’m considered on of the ‘young ones’ in the hobby at 28… Yes it’s difficult to find both time and money for the hobby but if you make it a priority you can do a lot of different things. For instance remember my thread about hand building a #9 turnout? I did that while attending grad school, and spent maybe a total of $100 including rail ( I have some left over) and precut lumber. How did I do it? I spent 30-40 minutes when I could working on small projects. It took me a month to file and build the frog. But I did it myself and kept myself into the hobby. I’m looking forward to having room for a layout again, but until then I’ve got small projects that keep me busy and active in the hobby.
My wife & I do one or two public displays a year. We have been to retirement communities, the local library and a local garden center. We usually set up set 4-8 people, some of which are not even in the hobby. The local library figured they had about 1000 people thru last year. Our target audience is not train people, but we don’t turn anyone away. We usually include a scavenger hunt, I wish large scale had more animation.
Our main goal is to take out the trains and interact with the people. People like to talk, we had a train at home… my brother has a train… One of the retirement homes went on to start a large scale club after one of our visits, that is the only one thing I feel we had a part in after 7 - 8 years of doing displays.
The world is wide open, limited only by our imagination.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cd/lititzlibrary.jpg)
I have to agree with Craig’s comment. In our club we have one retiree who’s total train inventory is a used Keystone engine and tender three keystone cars and a bobber caboose. He has just as much fun with that as does the owner of 40+ SD 45’s. He is every show we set up at along with workshops. He assists us keeping the train at ST. John’s Home running. Similarly we have one woman who lives on SS and assists on any event she can beg borrow or seal a ride to. She has about 40 ft. of track in her yard, one LGB vintage steam engine and 5-7 hand made cars. She has as much fun at meeting workshops and events as do the rest of us and was president for years.
Cost does not appear to be an issue for these members and other members on limited incomes. Are we confusing the rising cost to our personal desire to build our consists with the desire to be part of the hobby?
I have to agree with Craig’s comment. In our club we have one retiree who’s total train inventory is a used Keystone engine and tender three keystone cars and a bobber caboose. He has just as much fun with that as does the owner of 40+ SD 45’s. He is every show we set up at along with workshops. He assists us keeping the train at ST. John’s Home running. Similarly we have one woman who lives on SS and assists on any event she can beg borrow or seal a ride to. She has about 40 ft. of track in her yard, one LGB vintage steam engine and 5-7 hand made cars. She has as much fun at meeting workshops and events as do the rest of us and was president for years.
Cost does not appear to be an issue for these members and other members on limited incomes. Are we confusing the rising cost to our personal desire to build our consists with the desire to be part of the hobby?
The problem facing this hobby is the xbox, internet and ipod
The cost is a deterant for those of us that have big plans and no $ to do it
Expense. I’m only 25, and with things like car payments, girlfriends etc. there just ins’t a lot fo money left over for the trains.
That and some small amount of land is generally required. Most people my age don’t own property yet.
By the time I was 25, I was already married with 2 kids, had already served 4 years of active duty in the USN and already bought my first home. At that time I was into radio control aircraft. It was too expensive (what with all the crashes) so I had to drop it. What are YOU waiting for?
William
Join a club!!! About half of our club does not have an outdoor setup. They run at our show set ups, setup at a garden center and ST. John Home. For less than $100 you can buy a used small engine and a caboose. Begin by running club rolling stock and slowly with deals on Ebay and CraigList you can find a car here or there for less than $25.00-may need some restoration.