Large Scale Central

Polk's GeneratioNeXt

General Discussion
#181

“…always marvelled at the raising prices when sales volume drops…which seems to be a cycle that feeds on itself…”

_tourism business (notably mexico) same mindset !

ie tourism down, prices generally went up at the diff. locales.

_ Cdn. BSE scare … ranchers/producers were getting squat for their stock some had to sell off to pay their bills, buuut ‘middlemen’ and retailers kept price up and beyond — even now (4 times as high).

_ oil industry approx. 60/barrel price just jumped up last week within 24hr timeline 45cents/gal. … in town here basically $4.73/gal./cdn now ! (it was approx. down to 4.23 for about a month but the industry suits, obviously decided at the pumps was a good place to continue tah make up the shortfall).

nite.

#182

But Fred. Where I come from, dead horse beating is a sport. Like cow chip throwing, cow patty bingo, cow tipping and such. Gee, Ya city folk just don’t know how to let loose and enjoy yer selves.

#183

Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD (Hons) said:

NOW; the future…well, if instead of bemoaning the loss of Aristo; those that want more equipment should start supporting USTrains, or loose them too. Then there is AMS…

Fred Mills

Thats all fine,except I don’t do anything in 1/29, as it is, my only 1/22.5 sources today are Bmann, LGB and Piko. All “used” BTW, I simply can’t afford “new” anymore.

#184

Vic; I’m not in need of anything. I have more than I need. The used market is growing, and the flea markets have lots…mostly it seems, from well meaning grandparents who tried to attract their grand children to the hobby, and failed…

Fred Mills

#185

Makes one wonder why the guy that just bought his first G scale train set doesn’t post much and gets out of the hobby as quickly as he joined it?

Editing to say : Threads like this that is

#186

Is your point that:

  1. because this is about “where is Scott” it will deter a newcomer? Because it is “negative”?

or, as I believe

  1. a newcomer will THANK the forum to learn this before he places an order and, like some others on this thread, his money will be accepted, but he won’t get any product or communication?

OK Rooster, pick one of the two… I’m really interested to hear your logic on your answer too.

Greg

#187

Fred, yes I have bought some second hand stuff lately that doesn’t look like its been out of the box. Or has very little run time on it. So I can see where a manufacturer could have a difficult time moving enough product to stay in business. That is why Scott needs to bring to market stuff that isn’t already available on the second hand market.

#188

I’m pretty sure it’s #3.

T

#189

It all comes down to research and willingness to accept.

Would you buy a Yugo or a Daewoo?

We tried to get as much info out as we could pre-LGB and Aristo meltdown, but all some folks wanted to do was argue. They could have taken that information and bought what they needed before it was gone. In LGB’s case, it was gone for a while, now starting back in.

Look at the market. Kader (allegedly) owns the tooling. I have been told the one outfit that might have been interested…wasn’t. So it sets. If the market was there, someone would pick it up, maybe even just made by Kader and sold through one of their subsidiaries…but that hasn’t happened. Now they tack on 40% and how is the market going to absorb that?

If the economy was any good, if new folks in the hobby didn’t get stuck with garbage that wouldn’t stay on the track, wheels fall of or go out of quarter, gearboxes strip out, maybe we’d be talking about different stuff today.

Did you see the latest out of Aristo? They fixed the wheel and gauge issues, parts are now available to upgrade you older units!

But no. Instead of accepting there were issues, some serious, they listened to the faithful, there is nothing wrong, and I always wondered what part of the departure was loss of sales because nobody wanted to buy into the issues?

Parts…can you imagine how badly this would go over in the automotive world? One of the folks here melted the Ames Super Socket in his K-27. There Are No Parts. Bachmann told him “we don’t have those”. It took one of the forum folks to mail him one they had gutted.

So, we buy into this stuff, the price keeps skyrocketing, parts become scarce, manufacturers go out of business…if some of us didn’t have the wherewithall to make the parts, we’d be in real trouble. Remember the outside-framed 2-8-0? List at $800. Street at $225-$250 all day long at TW.

The new 2-8-0 is listed at what, $1900? TW almost $800. Really? Since I won’t spend more than thirty bucks, apparently, I guess I’m out of the market…as are a whole lot of other folks.

I wonder how many years it will be until TW flogs them all off?

TOC

#190

David Maynard said:

Fred, yes I have bought some second hand stuff lately that doesn’t look like its been out of the box. Or has very little run time on it. So I can see where a manufacturer could have a difficult time moving enough product to stay in business. That is why Scott needs to bring to market stuff that isn’t already available on the second hand market.

Except. Except. How many 0-4-0’s with matching cabooses will you buy to clear out the pile in the PRC so he can get to the point that bigger stuff can be brought in?

Remember the “container” coming in that Polks were waiting for? About the time of the “pay no attention to the west coast experts”?

The weeks delay from arrival in New York until they got the shipment was telling. The amount of stuff they put on the website was even more telling. No way was it a “container”, rather a “partial” and the delay most likely was unloading, finding their stuff, and shipping it to Joisey.

And what was it? 0-4-0’s with matching cabooses. Heavyweights. And re-worked Delton 2-8-0s for the “Classic” line, which they had stopped supporting, what, 5 years prior? You think the date on the boxes and the date stamp on the locos was really an oversight by Kader, that they forgot to change the date stamp?

This isn’t hard to figure out, even without making some phone calls.

With his financial backer, if they could have brought in Dash 9’s and Mallets, the new 2-8-0’s, and Mikados, don’t you imagine they would have?

I certainly wish they could. Last thing we need is the line to not be supported.

There is a lot to this…and if Scott is anything like his uncle, he’ll pull a rabbit out of the hat.

TOC

#191

Greg Elmassian said:

Is your point that:

  1. because this is about “where is Scott” it will deter a newcomer? Because it is “negative”?

or, as I believe

  1. a newcomer will THANK the forum to learn this before he places an order and, like some others on this thread, his money will be accepted, but he won’t get any product or communication?

OK Rooster, pick one of the two… I’m really interested to hear your logic on your answer too.

Greg

Greg

Last time I looked the thread was not about “Where is Scott” ?

So I pick #1 by your choices that you gave me and you are incorrect because I read this thread again and didn’t misunderstand it.

Actually Terry Burr is correct in #3

#192

David Russell said:

Greg Elmassian said:

Is your point that:

  1. because this is about “where is Scott” it will deter a newcomer? Because it is “negative”?

or, as I believe

  1. a newcomer will THANK the forum to learn this before he places an order and, like some others on this thread, his money will be accepted, but he won’t get any product or communication?

OK Rooster, pick one of the two… I’m really interested to hear your logic on your answer too.

Greg

Greg

Last time I looked the thread was not about “Where is Scott” ?

So I pick #1 by your choices that you gave me and you are incorrect because I read this thread again and didn’t misunderstand it.

Actually Terry Burr is correct in #3

Seriously? The thread drift has moved to “where is Scott?” which is a question also asked locally.

How many folks avoid faceplant and reading what someone ate for lunch?

To use that as the only way to contact the person is ludicrous at best.

If they cannot get an answer via e-mail, or website, and al they get on the phone is ring-ring-ring with no answering machine, that’s supposed to be good for the hobby?

TOC

#193

TOC, I agree with what you are saying. I don’t need any 0-4-0s with matching cabeese. In fact, I have none of them. But a newbie might want them. What I was saying is if he could get the NOS and make a profit on it, then maybe he could bring in the stuff he wanted to, the stuff you mentioned. But, apparently, all the profit went into overhead. That takes me back to a question I asked pages ago; Did Scott go into this with a solid business plan?

The whole idea that he cant even afford voice-mail, or a cheap Radio Shack answering machine, is quite disturbing. Many of the older folks in the hobby don’t Face-book. And its the older folks that quite often have the money, and the desire for product, that Scott needs to tap into if he is going to have a fighting chance.

Maybe Kader will bring back the line on its own. Maybe someone else will step up and bring back the line. If Scott cant, then maybe, he needs to get out of the way so someone can. Now please don’t get me wrong. I still want to see Scott make it work. But as time goes on, and things do not seam to be improving for him, I have to wonder.

#194

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

David Russell said:

Greg Elmassian said:

Is your point that:

  1. because this is about “where is Scott” it will deter a newcomer? Because it is “negative”?

or, as I believe

  1. a newcomer will THANK the forum to learn this before he places an order and, like some others on this thread, his money will be accepted, but he won’t get any product or communication?

OK Rooster, pick one of the two… I’m really interested to hear your logic on your answer too.

Greg

Greg

Last time I looked the thread was not about “Where is Scott” ?

So I pick #1 by your choices that you gave me and you are incorrect because I read this thread again and didn’t misunderstand it.

Actually Terry Burr is correct in #3

Seriously? The thread drift has moved to “where is Scott?” which is a question also asked locally.

How many folks avoid faceplant and reading what someone ate for lunch?

To use that as the only way to contact the person is ludicrous at best.

If they cannot get an answer via e-mail, or website, and al they get on the phone is ring-ring-ring with no answering machine, that’s supposed to be good for the hobby?

TOC

Dave

I appreciate your knowledge however you guys need to get over your hang up’s and personal vendettas. You use cars as a reference, pick up the phone and call Saturn or Saab and ask them about support for their products? Good luck with your old Jaguars and their support is that good for your hobby?

I joined this site and stayed “TRUE” to this site because we all shared an interest in playing with model trains outdoors. Not how well they were built, not if they ran like crap but we were playing with model trains and enjoying them. Way I see it is “simple” and enjoying/sharing a hobby on the only model train site I’m on !

#195

David Maynard said:

TOC, I agree with what you are saying. I don’t need any 0-4-0s with matching cabeese. In fact, I have none of them. But a newbie might want them. What I was saying is if he could get the NOS and make a profit on it, then maybe he could bring in the stuff he wanted to, the stuff you mentioned. But, apparently, all the profit went into overhead. That takes me back to a question I asked pages ago; Did Scott go into this with a solid business plan?

The whole idea that he cant even afford voice-mail, or a cheap Radio Shack answering machine, is quite disturbing. Many of the older folks in the hobby don’t Face-book. And its the older folks that quite often have the money, and the desire for product, that Scott needs to tap into if he is going to have a fighting chance.

Maybe Kader will bring back the line on its own. Maybe someone else will step up and bring back the line. If Scott cant, then maybe, he needs to get out of the way so someone can. Now please don’t get me wrong. I still want to see Scott make it work. But as time goes on, and things do not seam to be improving for him, I have to wonder.

THAT is where this conversation is heading…right there.

WE don’t know exactly what the business plan is…but on the outside looking in at what you can see, you can make some observations. You have made some.

Even if there was a lot of financial backing, there need to be a payout, where product (salable) is brought in, profit is made, backer is paid.

Lewis had his sugar daddies…Sol Kramer was one. That is why the big engines got financed.

But now Scott has to deal with clearing backlog…then bringing in the big stuff with some well known (or at least reported) issues…and somebody is going to have to pay to have that redesign work done…and that’s more money…and the market…how much will the market bear?

To shift view a bit…how well do we wonder (aloud) how well the lower numerical runs and higher numerical pricing has done for Bachmann?

How many years did the K and the three truck Shay sit at TW before they got the clearance to blow them out?

Just what we see.

When did the C-19 come out?

Reviews started 2-1/2 years ago…yet the small run is still for sale at TW. You’d understand that in the old days when they made thousands of them (first Shays, 10K), but shorter runs…and they’re still there?
How soft is the market?

I don’t have the more than thirty bucks it would take to buy one…but then, I have stopped buying anything new after the K.

No interest.

How many others think like I do?

Fun work for the marketing folks.

TOC

#196

             

#197

OK Rooster, so you are objecting because this thread is negative.

Well, you and I will probably disagree on this until we kick the bucket.

Many of the original Kool Aid squad believed as such, anything negative was bad for the hobby. I got told that over and over by the “faithful”. (This was mostly the gang over on the now defunct manufacturers site).

My experience was that reading stuff from people who “told it as it is” (George Schreyer for example, and TOC for another) saved me thousands of dollars in not buying things that were not worth it. When I did buy something that needed extensive rework to make serviceable, I went into the purchase well informed and there was no disappointment or dissatisfaction, because I knew what to expect.

When people conceal facts, whether good or bad, then those are the people who I want to avoid and certainly not take advice from them.

I cannot accept your philosophy as being “good” for the hobby long term. I’ve seen too many people buy stuff, and then get so discouraged they quit entirely.

Of course I will defend to the end your right to have your philosophy.

Regards, Greg

#198

Greg, you said, in part “I’ve seen too many people buy stuff, and then get so discouraged they quit entirely.” Yes I have too. Bachmann’s low end product was good for that in HO and N. Its a shame, folks don’t due proper research before plunking down their money. Especially now that the Internet is in virtually every home.

TOC, I have a few more then $30, and I like the Trainworld blow outs. That is when they have something I want. The thing is, right now, my storage areas are almost at capacity, so I am not waiting for much to be blown out. And that is part of the problem for Scott or anyone trying to sell product in this hobby. Many of us don’t need much more, some do. They need to capture the imagination of those who aren’t in this hobby/gauge and get them fired up. With track prices that scare away folks, and deficient products that don’t perform, its difficult to bring new people into the hobby.

#199

Add to that, engines priced well above what can be found still new in the box on several sites, Alco FA-1’s come to mind, $440 on Nextgen’s site, $250 or under elsewhere. The whole large scale hobby has a perceived notion that its only for the those with depth of wallet. When those in the know, know that is far from the truth. Once you get beyond track prices and learn where to look for deals on engines/rolling stock/and of coarse…track. I really hope that Scott can find his way in what can only be a very tough market to be in right now. Between his tooling being tied up in China with all thier BS, and what is a soft market for what he does have to sell to generate funds to bring in fresh runs of SD45’s, Dash 9’s ect. I know my friend would plunk down the $$ for a high hood NS SD45 and the same for a Dash 9 in NS colors. Just not in the same month. I am going to sit back and watch the whole show unfold, just like I did with the LGB fiasco. Mike

#200

Mike Toney said:

Add to that, engines priced well above what can be found still new in the box on several sites, Alco FA-1’s come to mind, $440 on Nextgen’s site, $250 or under elsewhere. The whole large scale hobby has a perceived notion that its only for the those with depth of wallet. When those in the know, know that is far from the truth. Once you get beyond track prices and learn where to look for deals on engines/rolling stock/and of coarse…track. I really hope that Scott can find his way in what can only be a very tough market to be in right now. Between his tooling being tied up in China with all thier BS, and what is a soft market for what he does have to sell to generate funds to bring in fresh runs of SD45’s, Dash 9’s ect. I know my friend would plunk down the $$ for a high hood NS SD45 and the same for a Dash 9 in NS colors. Just not in the same month. I am going to sit back and watch the whole show unfold, just like I did with the LGB fiasco. Mike

There are deals out there. Today alone, on evilbait, listed as a Lionel 0 engine:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Santa-Fe-Engine-No-2010-O-Scale-/181750352470?hash=item2a512a4a56

It wasn’t. Aristo Santa Fe warbonnet FA, final bid, $41. Granted, that’s $11 over my max, but somebody got one helluva deal.

Parts along, worth 4-5 times that.

Manufacturers have bought into the notion that we stupid Americans are busy playing with toys…so they figure we have the money and keep jacking prices…like the latest Kader 40% increase.

Storage, yes. I’ve been giving stuff away, throwing stuff away…I have no room.

What I have I use for parts to keep others locos running.

I still hope he can pull the rabbit out of a hat. We had two sources for 1:29 diseasemals, one is now…in storage.

Remember when the Next Generation of diseasemals came out, and the early FA and U25B’s were suddenly “excess” to our needs? Lots and lots showed up for sale, so newcomers building their railroads had a source…cheap…and no new sales.

Think about the overall size of the market, the excess to the needs stored, and the ability to afford new locos and the ability to physically store them.

I have folks bring me stuff to sell when they get out of the hobby for whatever reason. I used to buy stuff outright, but no more.

I have a Bach V&T 4-6-0, r/c, Sierra, BBT chassis, 7 passenger cars and more…and nobody wants it. I have a Doodlebug in UP, r/c and batteries, no sound, no buyers. I have a railbus, r/c and batteries, no sound, no takers.

I have a new in the box 2018D I bought out of an estate years ago…no takers.

Freight cars, hard to move them, everybody asks where are they gonna put them.

Once my crystal ball comes back from the shop, I’ll let you know what’s next.

TOC