And kill the golden goose? Are they that stupid? High prices in S. Korea is why they got the gig in the first place. No sense of history, these Chinese.
Trying to make and sell for an unrealistically low price is part of the reason why Aristo fell over.
Too many compromises to achieve a price point, led to crappy and getting crappier products.
The Large Scale market nowadays is simply not big enough for economies of scale.
I am afraid the days of “cheap” Large Scale are long gone and likely will never return.
If anything is going to improve it will possibly be a swing away from 1:29th scale to the correct 1:32 scale. Albeit at a price point those who think Large Scale is already too expensive and one they cannot support.
The top end of the market, and especially Live Steam is doing quite nicely thank you very much.
Steve Featherkile said:
And kill the golden goose? Are they that stupid? High prices in S. Korea is why they got the gig in the first place. No sense of history, these Chinese.
I dunno Steve, if Kader can squeeze not just Charlie but the other smaller gauge guys out as well while retaining the tooling, they can place themselves on top of the model railroad heap, and being Chinese they don’t have to follow the rules and can set prices artificially low to get market share, if not corner the market.
Inconceivable?
OK, so they corner the market, then raise prices so no one buys? Smart business plan.
Good for HLW, at least.
Steve Featherkile said:
OK, so they corner the market, then raise prices so no one buys? Smart business plan.
Good for HLW, at least.
I think they’re smarter than that, they’ll always put the price where they can make maximum profit while still charging at a point just below that “hell no” price. After all they did sell some of the C19s at the new near brass price and they are still selling a lot of HO and N at the new high norm prices.
From Dave:
“Having Charlie throw in the towel for lack of new (now too expensive to order) products, could eventually leave Kader in the catbird seat re 1/29 scale, suddenly being THE source for that scale. Its real hardball business politics but its not inconceivable.”
Dave’s speculation has merit.
If the large scale market’s demand for products continues at its low, Kader’s role is one of storage – unless they view USA and others as middle men and instead manufacturer and sell direct under the umbrella of a website. However, that move requires consideration of a very poor marketplace whereby those in the hobby have been in the hobby for X years – and “have everything” except what they purchase out of habit or compulsion. The hobby can’t make it by simply keeping the same customers year-after-year-after-year.
Vic, Kader is already in a strong position, since they can control USAT’s pricing, since they control their manufacturing.
But at least Accucraft is not part of Kader, and neither is Marklin/LGB/whatever their name is. You can also be sure that USAT has/is looking at options to get out of the Kader control.
Greg
Vic Smith said:
… snip…
PS I would be very interested to know if USAs manufacturing agreement re: tools and molds, is the same model with Aristo. Now this is really some mindstretching but it occurred to me that if Kader also owns the tools and molds for USA, like they did for Aristo. Having Charlie throw in the towel for lack of new (now too expensive to order) products, could eventually leave Kader in the catbird seat re 1/29 scale, suddenly being THE source for that scale. Its real hardball business politics but its not inconceivable.
Greg re: USA the trouble with that is that if their business manufacturing model is the same as Aristo, and I strongly suspect it is, then ALL of their products tooling is actually owned by Kader. What USA owns is the license to sell that product produced for them by Kader as their own labeled product. But there’s nothing stopping Kader, once any contracts are severed or expired, from producing the very same product of that tooling as their own relabeled product. That’s what they did with Williams and K-Line. Why not Aristo, or if Roe hangs it up or is driven out, USA?This is all just speculation .
Yeah, but pretty darn reasonable speculation in my opinion.
USAT did have different agreements on quality issues though…
Greg
Gee, didn’t anyone ever think that sending all their manufacturing to China was someday going to bite them in the behind?
I am just a tech, low man on totem pole, and even I knew this when it started happening in my industry.
Who really “knows” what is going to happen.
What I can say with some degree of certainty (but still a guess nonetheless) is that, if someone, (anyone) tries to re-introduce the old Aristo 1:29 line without fixing all the faults, they will also end up being another Large Scale Dodo.
Perhaps with another name and all the faults fixed and a feature made of that, someone might be successful with re-releasing the old range.
There is no bottom end of the market anymore for the marketers to “con”. The upper (as in upper financial) end of the market is way too savvy to fall for the BS that was prevalent over the years.
Does anyone have an email address for a real person at Polk’s GeneratioNeXt? I’m getting nowhere trying to use their website to progress a parts order placed weeks ago.
They have the money and I am not impressed.
mike
Michael Turner said:
Does anyone have an email address for a real person at Polk’s GeneratioNeXt? I’m getting nowhere trying to use their website to progress a parts order placed weeks ago.
They have the money and I am not impressed.
mike
Good luck. I have a local guy here who has tried, and tried, and tried. Web contact (e-mail?) and phone, phone, phone.
I refuse to try, but he tells me he has never, ever gotten even a “your contact information has been received” or a return phone call…and the calls primarily because there isn’t even an answering option.
No voice mail, no machine, no nothing. And he isn’t the only one to tell me that.
I suppose if someone is actually walking through the boiler room when the phone rings, they might pick it up.
TOC
Keep posting on Facebook… Scott does pay attention there…
Greg
Hopefully Scott will “clear the air” over on facebook, but I highly doubt it. I wish him well but things do not look good to those looking from the outside in. But there sure is a total lack of anything really fresh in large scale right now. Kind of on autopilot right now it seems. I worry about our local mostly large scale hobby shop. There has been little to nothing show up in collections for him to consign and only new stuff has been LGB product that he can get his hands on. A total lack of customer service outside of being called out on face book is NOT the way to do business. Not all of us are on face book, I refuse to do the whole face book thing. Mike
OK guys; we can speculate until the cows decide to come in, and go on after that. Aristo is dead…get over it…Scott has disappeared…get over that too. Parts…well try Navin, but look to places like this…some have a few to spare, and the aftermarket is growing…yes, at a price, but then eveything is going up in price…live with it…
NOW; the future…well, if instead of bemoaning the loss of Aristo; those that want more equipment should start supporting USTrains, or loose them too. Then there is AMS…
Start supporting what suppliers we still have, and stop all this repetitive speculation.
Fred Mills
Fred, it may be your opinion that Aristo is dead, that’s fine, but this thread is about Scott Polk and his GeneratioNext.
(yes there has been “thread drift”)
It may also be your opinion also that Scott is gone for good. Fine, that’s your opinion.
Seriously if you don’t like reading the thread, skip it. We clearly know that Scott has not been communicating.
And we are adults, and don’t need the rather peevish “get over it”…
And it’s our right to have repetitive speculation, last time I checked.
I for one, hope Scott can make a go of it, he sure tried.
Greg
Didn’t I post earlier that the only good news is Simba Dickie and no more Walthers?
TOC
It was only a suggestion. I never said that anyone was compelled to follow my suggestions. I just thought that all the energy used posting speculative stuff, would be better devoted to projects that could help with enjoying the hobby, and solving problems. I guess I was wrong.
I too wish that anyone involved with trying to either “Rejuvenate” the business, or start another, has good fortune in their efforts.
When kicking a horse, a person usually finds out that the horse is dead after several “Kicks”…how many does it take in this case ?
I’ll stand by for any constructive information, but am leaving the corpse for the coroner to make the final examination.
As young Dave Goodson used to say, in his wisdom… “Move along, nothing to see”…!!
Now after these final “Few” words; I guess that the buzzards will swoop in and pick out my eyeballs, before the rest of the vultures arrive…!!!
Have fun,
Fred Mills
I drop in and read this thread, because it’s probably the most excitement we see on any of the Web Pages, here or elsewhere. Stirring the pot is part of the fun, especially when the “Professional Speculators” all get on a subject. Soon the daggers come out and the name calling starts, and then Bob’s “Fatal Finger of Fate” hits his 'puter keyboard, and heads roll.
It is nice to see a good amount of constructive “Stuff” going on, elsewhere on the web page. Some of us find it pleasant to spend time there too.
If it helps, you will be pleased to know that I won’t make any further comments on this thread/topic again; unless of course I am given some “True/accurate/provable” information to share with you.
Let the party continue, before the corpse starts to decay…(Meant as humour, in case some fail to guess)
Fred Mills