Large Scale Central

M&K Sugar Mill

Eric Mueller said:

Update,

First, GAP, thanks for numerous tips. I cut the stack as you suggested. Based on photos, the local ones came in dark, light, and dark-and-light. I think I am going to go with “spray can primer black” to make it stand out from the mill! All had some sort of lip near the top I will have to emulate, too.

Second, I proceeded applying siding to the mill today. Again, GAP, to you the honors for tipping me off to “DAP 3.0” It is foam safe, tacky enough to adhere on contact, and slow drying enough to allow for adjustments. I needed a lot of those!

I decided to start with the mill’s backside to allow for experimentation and mistakes. I first marked up some basic dimensions to begin estimating the number of panels, each of which is about 4"x2.5":

I then began experimenting with placement. I knew there were variances in width and length of my panels, so I figured I had to leave room for overlap and screen for “too skinny” pieces, saving them for other areas near the edge. I found that the crimping crunched the width about 1/8", so I made marks every 2 1/8". This proved to allow for overlap and the occasional “skinny” panel. I also dressed the edges to their tops, using a straight edge. I found it was easier to layer glue on the foam and press panels in place than to put glue on the panels and then press them to the core. The results are below:

Note, GAP, I cheated and bought a cap when I got the adhesive! Residual curl in the panels meant some did not adhere. I am not sure if I should let this be and call it “character” or try to fix it with CA glue later. The bond would be panel-to-panel, so there would be minimal threat to the foam underneath. These gaps, though, are enough cause for concern to disabuse me of spray painting panels on the foam! I have lots of annealed scrap waiting to be trimmed, crimped, and painted to cover that remaining strip of foam along the top.

There was only minimal overhang, and, by shear dumb luck, the placement of the panels corresponds to the sill of the windows! See below:

Incidentally, the PLAYMOBIL crew was doing MOW work. TONKA-Dude stepped in.

I’ll let all this dry overnight before proceeding with the paneling. GAP, if you go this route, be advised the only fun part of the paneling may be the VB that stands between you and the raw material! Glad I can show you a way, even if it is a way to avoid!

Before closing, Rooster, thanks for your compliment. The loader shed part of the project, while perhaps the least visible, has consumed a good bit of mental energy. The Mill is in an illogical position due to constraints of my garden, so showing a plausible work flow has become and increasingly important goal along the way. This required just enough detail in this area to imply it without so much the project bogged down on things that would largely remain barely seen. I did consider adding railings on the walk ways to protect the employees pushing / raking cane onto the conveyor, but the constraints of space might have impeded the more important visual aspect of cane cars actually travelling through the shed! The little side projects to bring this part of the project along have broken the tedium of the siding effort.

Updates and progress dictates!

Eric

Eric,

The “iron” looks very good and the rumpled look adds character I would just add a bit of rust paint in places to age the metal a bit.

I am cheating with my corrugated iron I am using the sides of an old above ground swimming pool. In the old days they were made with super small corrugated iron before they were banned because people were cutting themselves on it.

Over here we do not cut up aluminium cans we take them to the recycle depots and get 10c for them. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

The VB does help the creative juices flow, so partaking in a cooling ale while thinking about the next step is always welcome.

For the adhesive I would use both a cap and the clingwrap between nozzle and cartridge but then I can be a “belt and braces” person sometimes.

The lip around the top of the stack was most likely a walkway for the maintenance workers so they could look down into the stack.

They would need to do that on a modern mill to see if the scrubber nozzles were working and not clogged. The scrubbers are actually just sprayers that spray water into the exhaust gas to wash out any heavy particles (usually unburnt cane fibre) so that it did not float over the town, all part of being environmentally friendly. I remember before they became mandatory there was black fibre blowing all over town.

Eric, I see you have already glued you roof panels on but I would recommend that future metal panels be staggered so that the horizontal seams are not all in the same plane vertically, Bill

side picture of boiler

Seems common building practice is to keep the horizontal lines even and straight across as real metal sheeting is laid on a chalk line across the surface. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

Seems common building practice is to keep the horizontal lines even and straight across as real metal sheeting is laid on a chalk line across the surface. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Most roofers do not cut sheet unless they have to, the sheets are usually all the same length and are fixed to battens that are straight hence the overlap is in the same plane. On a gable roof they lay the lower sheets first working up to the apex.

Rooster said:

I “Love” it but it’s only my opinion !

All:

Thanks. The pictures I have show the roofs as GAP described them. The vertical surfaces show no clear seams. Some field research today as I drove through a more rural part of the island with buildings that date to an earlier time confirmed at least the roofs are “dressed” along the edged, with some overlap of the upper sheets as described. Smaller buildings clearly had one sheet, where possible.

I imagine the mills, which were driving force of the economy, kept things pretty standardized and in fighting trim to the end of sugar. Out buildings and private property probably had repairs done based on size of hole, size of available material, and dedication of the repairman!

Too late to change course!

Eric

Update,

I am having a real issue getting some sheets to stick to the foam, especially the smaller ones on the core’s edge. No joy with masking tape, and it sets too slowly to make holding it in place with my fingers practical. At the roof apex, I did use some scrap wood and rubber bands to hold everything flat and in place. If I can find the right sized bungee cords, I might be able to repeat the process on wider areas. Normally, I’d tip the building on its side and weight everything down, but the building is mounted to an oversized base. That might not work in this case.

Two steps forward, on step back.

Have a great week!

Eric

alas, I had the same issue with the siding on the church for my Mik Project. Dang stuff wanted to curl, or it’d slip a fraction. I ended up using vice grip type clamps to hold boards pressed against the siding…and still ran into issues…

Thanks, Tim. The size of the building precludes the use of anything in my clamp collection. I am scouring the garage for bungee cords. The plan will be to glue a row, bungee it top and bottom, running the cords all the way around the structure…I’ll make another assault on the project this weekend when I won’t be rushed.

Eric

Eric Mueller said:

Thanks, Tim. The size of the building precludes the use of anything in my clamp collection. I am scouring the garage for bungee cords. The plan will be to glue a row, bungee it top and bottom, running the cords all the way around the structure…I’ll make another assault on the project this weekend when I won’t be rushed.

Eric

Eric,

Have you tried to “sandwich” the siding and foam between 2 pieces of ply held in place by a couple of clamps?

Constant pressure over a large area.

GAP,

Nope. That answer was entirely too easy and obvious! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)Clearly, I need the magical imagination enhancing properties of VB! Thanks for point out a viable and probably more manageable (and probably safer) alternative to bungee cords!

Eric

Eric Mueller said:

GAP,

Nope. That answer was entirely too easy and obvious! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)Clearly, I need the magical imagination enhancing properties of VB! Thanks for point out a viable and probably more manageable (and probably safer) alternative to bungee cords!

Eric

Eric,

Glad to be of help.

I don’t drink VB it dulls the mind its a southerners (Victorian) drink, I drink Great Northern, the beer for up North here and stimulates the creative senses. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

Beer preference in Australia is a very serious business with individual states each having their own main brand.(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Update:

I puttered about all week trying different ways to get panels to lie flat. I don’t have big enough clams to do as GAP suggested, so used bungee cords over large flat surfaces (foam in my case) to hold everything in place. At least it stuck… With glue no appearing on the visible side of panels, I backed off and had a think (Neither VB nor Great Northern being available here, the thinkin was clearly unaided!). Today it dawned on my I might be able to drive flat head pins into recalcitrant corners and edges. For grins, I dipped the pins in TiteBond III in hopes it would help bind them to the foam.

Pretty? No. Secure? Yes. At the limit of acceptability? Yes… That really uneven row along the top will be out of sight, luckily. I am finding the edges of the foam are just rounded enough to prevent a tight bond.

Were I to do this again:

  1. I would glue the metal panels onto a plastic backing and stick that to the foam. That way, I could’ve done as GAP suggested, gluing panels to each side, putting something over it, and weighting it down.
  2. Also, the panel manufacturing is just irregular enough I would have scribed lines 1/4" narrower and 1/4" shorter than the pieces I cut to accommodate for errors in cutting an distortion in crimping. I was able to stretch a few panels accordion style to keep a nominal vertical alignment, but the extra slop would’ve ensured I could overlap and/or trim to account for error.

Lessons learned, should I attempt a similar behemoth in the future. I am hoping washes of dark earth colors and rust will got a long way to making these imperfections look like repairs with material on hand rather than crummy construction processes! Distance from viewer can only hide so much.

Speaking of paint, my 1:24 helpers below show what primer will do to foam:

Two things to note:

  1. That would’ve made impressive simulated concrete!
  2. The panels would probably provide sufficient protection for the foam core had I affixed them before painting, especially if I had ensured they all overlapped.

Other items:

  1. I drove past the stack of an old mill in Waipahu yesterday (the mill is gone). Straight. No lip. No platform. Nothing! Guess what I modeling our stack after? Ours will be solid black, however.
  2. I may revert to popsicle sticks for the loader area rather than scribed styrene. Sort of reverting to my comfort zone with that, but, given no one who is not PLAYMOBIL comes to help me anymore when I work on the mill, I am thinking it may be time to emphasize progress over experimentation. Hemming and hawing to follow.

Have a great week!

Eric

Eric Mueller said:

Update:

I puttered about all week trying different ways to get panels to lie flat. I don’t have big enough clams to do as GAP suggested, so used bungee cords over large flat surfaces (foam in my case) to hold everything in place. At least it stuck… With glue no appearing on the visible side of panels, I backed off and had a think (Neither VB nor Great Northern being available here, the thinkin was clearly unaided!). Today it dawned on my I might be able to drive flat head pins into recalcitrant corners and edges. For grins, I dipped the pins in TiteBond III in hopes it would help bind them to the foam.

Pretty? No. Secure? Yes. At the limit of acceptability? Yes… That really uneven row along the top will be out of sight, luckily. I am finding the edges of the foam are just rounded enough to prevent a tight bond.

Were I to do this again:

  1. I would glue the metal panels onto a plastic backing and stick that to the foam. That way, I could’ve done as GAP suggested, gluing panels to each side, putting something over it, and weighting it down.
  2. Also, the panel manufacturing is just irregular enough I would have scribed lines 1/4" narrower and 1/4" shorter than the pieces I cut to accommodate for errors in cutting an distortion in crimping. I was able to stretch a few panels accordion style to keep a nominal vertical alignment, but the extra slop would’ve ensured I could overlap and/or trim to account for error.

Lessons learned, should I attempt a similar behemoth in the future. I am hoping washes of dark earth colors and rust will got a long way to making these imperfections look like repairs with material on hand rather than crummy construction processes! Distance from viewer can only hide so much.

Speaking of paint, my 1:24 helpers below show what primer will do to foam:

Two things to note:

  1. That would’ve made impressive simulated concrete!
  2. The panels would probably provide sufficient protection for the foam core had I affixed them before painting, especially if I had ensured they all overlapped.

Other items:

  1. I drove past the stack of an old mill in Waipahu yesterday (the mill is gone). Straight. No lip. No platform. Nothing! Guess what I modeling our stack after? Ours will be solid black, however.
  2. I may revert to popsicle sticks for the loader area rather than scribed styrene. Sort of reverting to my comfort zone with that, but, given no one who is not PLAYMOBIL comes to help me anymore when I work on the mill, I am thinking it may be time to emphasize progress over experimentation. Hemming and hawing to follow.

Have a great week!

Eric

Looking very good Eric and all doing it without any VB or Great Northern input is a very impressive effort indeed. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

I don’t know Eric, I like the look of the panels the way they are, never seen an older metal siding building that where the panels were straight and flat, think it came out great, may be a little rust from that Hawaiian humidity, and if you look at George Schreyer’s metal panel covered warehouse you’ll see that nothing is flat or straight, Bill http://girr.org/

@Bill, Thanks. With no mills still standing, I only have modern structures and old photos as guides. I agree, it shouldn’t be too sanitary, and some weathering will come in time. Period color prints and observations of still-standing structures show a good deal of rust in the low points of the roofs. Vertical surfaces had / have considerably less, to the point that it looks as if the roof was / is painted a different color! I look at each project as a learning project, so all is well.

Meanwhile,

Progress continues. Three of fours sides have their metal sheathing. I also made the small “bridge” over the simulated conveyor pit:

Workers would push / rake cane onto the conveyor from walkways. This “bridge” is overkill, but it does help to define the “pit.” There is a degree of slop to all me to jostle everything into position out on the Triple O. Washes and weathering will follow with an eye towards making a light-dark contrast to further the illusion of depth. It actually works to sufficient degree as is. Trust me!

Less successful, however, and due solely to issues of craftsmanship, was the roof-wall interface:

Even from the primary viewing angle and closest likely approach my casual visitors, this will be large, and it will look especially bad at night as interior lights leak out:

I noted lots of buildings with corrugated metal roofs had eaves. I needed to do something to hide the “holes” from the signboard, anyway, so these eaves will be rather large!

Looking ahead, I broke down and bought three packs of popsicle sticks for the loader shed. In general, those on the railroad have held up. I know someone on this forum coats all of his wood buildings with TiteBond III, so I’ll do the same here. I also have material on hand for a fake door, too. Progress can continue!

Speaking of progress, I think I’ll close this post and makes some progress!

Aloha,

Eric

Looking good my friend!!! Keep up the progress! Aloha!

Update:

I realized since my last update I had to get that loader shed done before I could finish paneling the mill. Metal panels overlapping the wooden shed…OK. Planks overlapping the metal panels? Not so sure… There were also issues of how everything needs to come together as I start to seal up the loader shed, such as the interior door to the loading dock and lighting. Since the last update, I’ve been cutting popsicle sticks into scale(ish) 8’ board lengths and sticking them to the foam with TiteBond III:

There have been some issues on the peaks of the shed where things are “creatively vertical” (a.k.a. skewed), so the occasional shim piece has come out of the box-o-scraps.

The sheet of wood peaking out over the top will be the base of the door. I’ll glue it right to the wooden planking, again taking advantage of the distance from viewer to hide the detail of the fact the door is applied to and not cut through the wall. A simplified version will go on the inside. After that, I need to apply some LEDs to the underside of the loader roof, affix the roof, and return to the desultory task of applying the metal sheets to the remaining exposed faces of the mill.

As an aside, I know the original plan of simulated wood siding using styrene would have looked better, given that’s how I made the loading dock. Switching to popsicle sticks brought much needed momentum to the project. Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming, and the mill has to be off the lanai before then, even if some details like outbuildings are note done. Also, I am starting to get the itch to move on to some new projects, and, of course, the Mik is looming a mere 10 weeks away!

Back to cutting and gluing!

Aloha,

Eric

I vote metal panels over the wood, looks great

@Bill. That’s the plan! I’ll be buttoning up the rest of the mill as as soon as the loader shed is “planked over.”

Speaking of that loader shed, the boys and I have the loader shed about 4/5 planked over. I am beginning to see past the flaws to the final product now, which has snapped me out of the doldrums brought on by what to my eye was only a partially successful attempt to metal over the mill compounded by sundry irregularities in the core of the structure. Going back to familiar materials (craft sticks and TiteBond III) on what is almost a separate project within the project provided a needed boost. No picture, as it simply looks like a woodier version of what I had above.

I want to have a extension of the roof over the loading dock. Naturally, I ran out of 1/4"x1/4" strips, so it is back to the craft store for them. I do have the material on had to make the door. The plan is to cut a sheet to size, plank over it, brace it along the sides to make it looked frame, and concoct some system to make it look like it is hanging from rollers on a rail that would allow the two sides of the door to slide open and closed (were they not, in fact, TiteBonded to the structure!). The little grommets we used for the journals in our can cars should suffice for the rollers. We’ve used craft sticks and scraps for everything else, so there is probably some way to make the rail / roller guide from them, too.

As I am puzzling over this, I am puzzling over the lighting. I have plenty of 2xAAA battery boxes and LEDs on hand. The former need to be protected from weather and neighbor kids, so they have to go inside the mill. I had thought of just using one battery box in the mill, taking advantage of the gap between the core and the future roof, as I am not sure I want to take the roof off every time I turn the lights on and off. The other option is to put the batteries in the loader shed, running leads to the roof of the shed and others through the walls into the mill. I’m sure there is some reason I don’t want to to do this, either. I have time.

Tonight I am really just chronicling progress to get over the next creative humps. Thanks for the forbearance.

Eric