Large Scale Central

Joe Douglass

Modeling
#261

Cliff,

Leaving stuff brass or painting is really up to you the operator/maintainer of said loco. Work horses often had everything painted even the brass. Easier to slop everything in black paint than mask of brass, paint only iron, then polish said brass.

But with that said many small railroads did cherish their locomotives. Painted them nice colors, clear coated the wood cabs, and polished the brass, and shined the planished iron jackets.

The Joe just feels like one of those beloved little locos. And since it’s for the wife I think pretty should win the day. Keep the brass bits brass. That’s my vote.

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#262

BTW I did come up with what I think makes for a good representation of planished iron. The sky blue we see on so many models really kinda irks me because planished iron isn’t in any way shape or form blue. It certainly isn’t baby powder blue. It most closely resembles the bluing used on firearms. The reason we “see” blue is the highly polished nature of it reflects the sky giving it a blueish look.

I tried and experiment to get more of a high gloss gun metal grey. I took chalk board paint and sprayed the jacket. Then after that was dry I dusted it with Pearl Ex Carbon Black pigment powder. Once I got a good even coat of the powder I shot it with a high gloss clear paint.

The result was a very attractive planished iron sorta look. Very glossy, metallic looking, and in a gun metal grey. A very nice compliment to brass boiler bands and domes and a flat black smoke box.

I only offer this in case you want to have a nice polished finished looks verses the work horse look. Not sure what the end goal is.

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#263

For your future Devoning purposes I introduce you to the following rabbit hole of choices Devon.
[Russian Iron]

Or you can follow the next three in order to spend the time:
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/283018.aspx
Model Railroad Paint Formula Guide: 鉄道模型資料室 (This one looks Oriental to me)
https://tplibrary.up.n.seesaa.net/tplibrary/image/28_0.jpg

And further on to get more pics of the different hues created by the plethora of irons from the different ore producers in Russia
https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=84681
The above only referenced to reiterate that Russian iron the (planished iron) came in many natural colors from the physical location of the ore and its mixture. So, very tough to narrow it down to a specific shade, but blue is one of them. Consider the above for informational purposes only. I went down this rabbit holes years back.
remember YMMV JMHO :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: :innocent: :sunglasses:

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#264

Thanks for the color info Devon and Dave. I’ve been expecting to paint it in “museum black,” just because that’s what I’m used to seeing it as.

However, I should ask a couple of them what their best guesses are for how the Joe D was originally painted, or if it had Russia iron. Who knows, there might be a spec sheet mentioning special color(s), or an old photo hinting at sheathing. So I’ll get on that.

#265

The first article Dave posted was one of the main articles I read and used for trying to come up with a planished/russia iron replica. It is one of the best descriptions of why it looks the way it does. And in it he quotes a gentleman who gave me the clue that the blue that model railroad manufacturers use to mimic it is due to reflections on the iron as opposed to the color itself.

And I will stand by my argument that powder blue is not one of the colors of planished iron until someone can actually show me a sheet if iron that color. A grey with blue hues, yes, many gun bluing jobs have a blue hue rather than pure black. But they are not powder blue. I have never seen locomotive in real life that is powder blue planished iron.

Planished or Russia iron is an interesting rabbit hole to go down. And since a great number of our older locomotives used planished jackets its a worthy discussion

#266

Cliff,

If you are lucky so.one somewhere has a builder’s spec sheet. If not the museum in its restoration might have discovered what the jacket is. The reason I went down the rabbit hole is because I have a copy of the CR&N #4 build spec sheet from Baldwin and it clearly calls for a planished jacket. Good photos of it, including Baldwins builder photo, clearly show that the jacket is a very shiny materiel verses the smoke box. So it is easy to deduce that indeed the locomotive has a painted smoke box and a polished planished iron jacket. And since that will be my only attempt a museum quality rivet counted model I want to get the jacket as right as possible. I may even use real steel shim stock that I blue with gun bluing.

#267

Thanks Devon, I’ve raised the Russia Iron question with the best “Joe” experts I know, and will post on what they say.

I have a scan of the original Porter spec sheet, but it says nothing about colors, only the “Waucoma” style. From an old photo, the smokebox was definitely a lighter color, so I’ve asked for opinions on what that color was.

In related cosmetic matters, I’m inclined to use small brass sheets for the roof (acid-washed), even though the cab is a complete replacement, and records are sparse.

Also, I may make a wood pile to put on top the tank.

#268

Question can you/they melt/recycle the experimental pieces ?

#269

Cliff, Check out the various brands of gun metal paint. If you can still find some Floquil, it’ll be pretty close. Allclad II also makes a gun metal lacquer.

#270

To stop hijacking Cliff’s thread I explained my process and showed the result here.

Doc, Testors used to make their buffing metalizer paints. I don’t think they make it anymore. But it was a very good product and was originally what I was going to use. Any of the gun metal, buffable, lacquers should give an excellent look.

#271

I have wondered this myself. I haven’t tried yet. But it is not “plastic” in the sense that I think of plastic like styrene. Its resin. I am not sure what would happen if you tried to melt it down. What you won’t be able to do is turn it back into resin for printing or any such thing. I would be curious to see if people have found a way to make it into a product that could be reused. You certainly have a lot of waste just in rafts and supports much less numerous misprints and do overs.

#272

You could ask your supplier …

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#273

You’re better than this, Devon, com’on :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#274

Don’t look for a “color” on the spec sheet. Thats the whole problem with modeling planished iron. I don’t think it was ever spec’ed as a color but a materiel. From what I gather, planishing is a way of treating the metal to make it rust resistant without the need for paint which will burn up with long hot use. Same reason we blue guns instead of painting them.

The Baldwin sheet specs that the jacket will be made of planished iron. It is a materiel specification for the boiler jacket, not a color. Further down the spec sheet it does call out for “colors” and the jacklet is left unpainted.

So look at the materiel specification for the jacket specifically and see if it calls it out. I have only ever looked at Baldwin spec sheets and then only a few of them. I have no idea if Porter made this sort of materiel specification and would have listed it.

If pictures of it show the jacket being darker than the smoke box then I would almost guess that the jacket is painted black and the smoke box silver. In the case of the CR&N #4 the smoke box (which I know was painted black per the specs) is darker than the jacket (which is planished). See my thread on it.

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#275

I was speaking hypothetically about others.

#276

Sean, since it’s a resin, once it cures it’s kinda done. The only use I’ve seen mentioned for it is filler for something else, or ground up to provide a gritty texture to paint & etc.

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#277

I’ve heard back from my two main sources, and the verdict is “graphite or ‘stove black’ for the smoke box,” and TBD on the boiler jacket. That’s fine. I’m leaning toward gloss black everywhere else, because for my meager paint skills, simple = better.

[edit: Referring to the boiler jacket: However, I just heard that “black paint would never hold up,” despite the museum paint job, so the “gun metal” look is recommended here. But the particular color is part of the research to be done in the spring.]

They confirmed that brass was probably exposed and polished wherever possible, since this loco was often maintained by the V&T crew in Carson, and that was their custom.

#278

If they are calling for graphite or stove black on the smoke box then don’t paint it a gloss black. Use a matte black such as a self-etching primer or my go to chalkboard paint ( sound like a broken record on this one). My reasoning is stove black is not at all a glossy product. I have used stove black and it is not at all glossy. It is a very matte product. And I think the graphite idea is where we get the silver smoke boxes from. I won’t even begin to profess that is true but graphite is a more silver color than black color. and I doubt it was ever very glossy either. All the silver smoke boxes I see on restored locos are more matte in color. That’s not to say that’s correct, maybe that’s just what people use. And since you say your paint skills are not great, you could easily do a gloss rattle can on the jacket and a matte black or graphite color rattle can on the smoke box. Would be easy, all you have to do is mask the joint between smoke box and jacket, and spray away. Would give a good contrast between both color and finish.

Cliff as I suspected your sources kinda confirmed my thinking. The reason planished iron was used was due to heat and the ability for black paint to hold up. Planished iron resists rust and does not need to be painted. So mimicing it, even if only with a spray paint with a contrasting lighter smoke box makes sense to me, since you say pictures of the smoke box are lighter and your sources say graphite.

#279

This loco was recommended to me as a go-by, to clarify the “graphite” color.

Antelope & Western Porter

It’s a chalky gray graphite look. Nuff said.

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#280

Yes that was what I suspected they meant. So a gloss black boiler and a grey (aluminum sort of color) in rattles cans would be perfect. And more importantly easy.