Large Scale Central

Joe Douglass

Modeling
#265

The first article Dave posted was one of the main articles I read and used for trying to come up with a planished/russia iron replica. It is one of the best descriptions of why it looks the way it does. And in it he quotes a gentleman who gave me the clue that the blue that model railroad manufacturers use to mimic it is due to reflections on the iron as opposed to the color itself.

And I will stand by my argument that powder blue is not one of the colors of planished iron until someone can actually show me a sheet if iron that color. A grey with blue hues, yes, many gun bluing jobs have a blue hue rather than pure black. But they are not powder blue. I have never seen locomotive in real life that is powder blue planished iron.

Planished or Russia iron is an interesting rabbit hole to go down. And since a great number of our older locomotives used planished jackets its a worthy discussion

#266

Cliff,

If you are lucky so.one somewhere has a builder’s spec sheet. If not the museum in its restoration might have discovered what the jacket is. The reason I went down the rabbit hole is because I have a copy of the CR&N #4 build spec sheet from Baldwin and it clearly calls for a planished jacket. Good photos of it, including Baldwins builder photo, clearly show that the jacket is a very shiny materiel verses the smoke box. So it is easy to deduce that indeed the locomotive has a painted smoke box and a polished planished iron jacket. And since that will be my only attempt a museum quality rivet counted model I want to get the jacket as right as possible. I may even use real steel shim stock that I blue with gun bluing.

#267

Thanks Devon, I’ve raised the Russia Iron question with the best “Joe” experts I know, and will post on what they say.

I have a scan of the original Porter spec sheet, but it says nothing about colors, only the “Waucoma” style. From an old photo, the smokebox was definitely a lighter color, so I’ve asked for opinions on what that color was.

In related cosmetic matters, I’m inclined to use small brass sheets for the roof (acid-washed), even though the cab is a complete replacement, and records are sparse.

Also, I may make a wood pile to put on top the tank.

#268

Question can you/they melt/recycle the experimental pieces ?

#269

Cliff, Check out the various brands of gun metal paint. If you can still find some Floquil, it’ll be pretty close. Allclad II also makes a gun metal lacquer.

#270

To stop hijacking Cliff’s thread I explained my process and showed the result here.

Doc, Testors used to make their buffing metalizer paints. I don’t think they make it anymore. But it was a very good product and was originally what I was going to use. Any of the gun metal, buffable, lacquers should give an excellent look.

#271

I have wondered this myself. I haven’t tried yet. But it is not “plastic” in the sense that I think of plastic like styrene. Its resin. I am not sure what would happen if you tried to melt it down. What you won’t be able to do is turn it back into resin for printing or any such thing. I would be curious to see if people have found a way to make it into a product that could be reused. You certainly have a lot of waste just in rafts and supports much less numerous misprints and do overs.

#272

You could ask your supplier …

1 Like
#273

You’re better than this, Devon, com’on :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#274

Don’t look for a “color” on the spec sheet. Thats the whole problem with modeling planished iron. I don’t think it was ever spec’ed as a color but a materiel. From what I gather, planishing is a way of treating the metal to make it rust resistant without the need for paint which will burn up with long hot use. Same reason we blue guns instead of painting them.

The Baldwin sheet specs that the jacket will be made of planished iron. It is a materiel specification for the boiler jacket, not a color. Further down the spec sheet it does call out for “colors” and the jacklet is left unpainted.

So look at the materiel specification for the jacket specifically and see if it calls it out. I have only ever looked at Baldwin spec sheets and then only a few of them. I have no idea if Porter made this sort of materiel specification and would have listed it.

If pictures of it show the jacket being darker than the smoke box then I would almost guess that the jacket is painted black and the smoke box silver. In the case of the CR&N #4 the smoke box (which I know was painted black per the specs) is darker than the jacket (which is planished). See my thread on it.

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#275

I was speaking hypothetically about others.

#276

Sean, since it’s a resin, once it cures it’s kinda done. The only use I’ve seen mentioned for it is filler for something else, or ground up to provide a gritty texture to paint & etc.

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#277

I’ve heard back from my two main sources, and the verdict is “graphite or ‘stove black’ for the smoke box,” and TBD on the boiler jacket. That’s fine. I’m leaning toward gloss black everywhere else, because for my meager paint skills, simple = better.

[edit: Referring to the boiler jacket: However, I just heard that “black paint would never hold up,” despite the museum paint job, so the “gun metal” look is recommended here. But the particular color is part of the research to be done in the spring.]

They confirmed that brass was probably exposed and polished wherever possible, since this loco was often maintained by the V&T crew in Carson, and that was their custom.

#278

If they are calling for graphite or stove black on the smoke box then don’t paint it a gloss black. Use a matte black such as a self-etching primer or my go to chalkboard paint ( sound like a broken record on this one). My reasoning is stove black is not at all a glossy product. I have used stove black and it is not at all glossy. It is a very matte product. And I think the graphite idea is where we get the silver smoke boxes from. I won’t even begin to profess that is true but graphite is a more silver color than black color. and I doubt it was ever very glossy either. All the silver smoke boxes I see on restored locos are more matte in color. That’s not to say that’s correct, maybe that’s just what people use. And since you say your paint skills are not great, you could easily do a gloss rattle can on the jacket and a matte black or graphite color rattle can on the smoke box. Would be easy, all you have to do is mask the joint between smoke box and jacket, and spray away. Would give a good contrast between both color and finish.

Cliff as I suspected your sources kinda confirmed my thinking. The reason planished iron was used was due to heat and the ability for black paint to hold up. Planished iron resists rust and does not need to be painted. So mimicing it, even if only with a spray paint with a contrasting lighter smoke box makes sense to me, since you say pictures of the smoke box are lighter and your sources say graphite.

#279

This loco was recommended to me as a go-by, to clarify the “graphite” color.

Antelope & Western Porter

It’s a chalky gray graphite look. Nuff said.

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#280

Yes that was what I suspected they meant. So a gloss black boiler and a grey (aluminum sort of color) in rattles cans would be perfect. And more importantly easy.

#281

image
I hate to be a nudge but that ISN"T what your prototype looks like. That has a nice gloss black smoke box and a planished iron jacket. Now that the conversation has come up, it think this picture is just about the perfect look for what I imagine planished iron should look like. Its that graphite color and this is a nice sunny day so its reflecting back blue.

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#282

Agreed. Except for the RI boiler jacket, which will be a serious PITA. I’ve been informed that gloss black paint won’t wash there.

We’ll see how far my give-o-crap holds…

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#283

Yesterday afternoon I did the stack, which (per the museum’s drawing) is now taller and has a flatter screen frame. It will also accommodate a scavenged smoke unit. I printed 3 just in case, but all went well with the first one, yay.

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I also worked on the whistle “pipe” from the steam dome. It’s a flexible tube (to be painted black) which has the ceiling light’s wires inside. The LBG whistle is in a hole topside.

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A mini connector was added so that the light can be disconnected when the roof is removed (without removing the boiler from the chassis). The steam dome’s top has a hole big enough for the mated connectors to pass through (and shove into the boiler). The little disk on the tube plugs into this hole and trims things out.

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This afternoon I worked on handles and steps, 4 pieces on each side. The brass strips will have a small “wooden” step CA’d to the top of their rungs. The 0-80 hardware is courtesy Mr. Chandler. :grin:

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That’s all for today. I’m working only mornings this week, so it’s nice to devote whole afternoons to this project.

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#284

Be careful, Cliff, very very careful ……. Else you might fool around and finish this thing :smiley:. Really looking great. I see new details I’ve not noticed before each time you post new photos.

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