They each get called a Wombat here in OZ.

Eats, roots and leaves.

Yes Tony

Bob Cope said:

Pete,

I will only comment here by stating that as a general rule manufacturers don’t WANT to here about the shortcomings of their products, no matter how simple. Magazine reviewers are paid by the magazine, the magazine is paid by the manufacturers to advertise. You get the picture. No matter what the downside is, the magazine will most likely not print it. . . .

Bob,

While I am sure that reviewers are aware that the product manufacturers are advertisers, and therefore make sure their comments are balanced and factual, they DO get printed. Many of GR magazines reviewers post here (myself included) and I hope they will confirm that advertiser pressure is relevant but does not stop reviews getting published.

If the bad reviews aren’t published, then the magazine’s readers will feel short-changed and that the magazine is not impartial.

David Russell said:

Tea and fancy sandwiches are being served down the hall and to the right gentlemen

Pete Thornton said:

Bob Cope said:

Pete,

I will only comment here by stating that as a general rule manufacturers don’t WANT to here about the shortcomings of their products, no matter how simple. Magazine reviewers are paid by the magazine, the magazine is paid by the manufacturers to advertise. You get the picture. No matter what the downside is, the magazine will most likely not print it. . . .

Bob,

While I am sure that reviewers are aware that the product manufacturers are advertisers, and therefore make sure their comments are balanced and factual, they DO get printed. Many of GR magazines reviewers post here (myself included) and I hope they will confirm that advertiser pressure is relevant but does not stop reviews getting published.

If the bad reviews aren’t published, then the magazine’s readers will feel short-changed and that the magazine is not impartial.

Pete,

There are reviews and then there are reviews.

Advertiser’s pressure should not even be an issue i.e. the reviewer writes it up exactly as it is; warts and all.

The kind of pressure that used to be/or appeared to be exerted on certain publications was way out of line.

Now that is what really hurts the hobby in the long run.

Of course as always strictly my opinion.

PS I’ve written a few reviews and called it as I saw it. Of course writing for a German mag, that is not beholden to x, y and z mfg, is apparently a completely different ball game.

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

There are reviews and then there are reviews.

Advertiser’s pressure should not even be an issue i.e. the reviewer writes it up exactly as it is; warts and all.

The kind of pressure that used to be/or appeared to be exerted on certain publications was way out of line.

Now that is what really hurts the hobby in the long run.

Of course as always strictly my opinion.

PS I’ve written a few reviews and called it as I saw it. Of course writing for a German mag, that is not beholden to x, y and z mfg, is apparently a completely different ball game.

We know it’s strictly YOUR opinion on what REALLY hurts the hobby. However have you even thought (for 1 second) about what possibly does hurt the hobby? I think I may have an answer to that.

It’s pretty hard to soar like an eagle when you hangout with a bunch of turkeys Mr Mueller! If there is an umlaut above one of the letters in your last name I apologize for the misspelling.

I can apologize if I’m incorrect.

David Russell said:

…

We know it’s strictly YOUR opinion on what REALLY hurts the hobby. However have you even thought (for 1 second) about what possibly does hurt the hobby? I think I may have an answer to that.

It’s pretty hard to soar like an eagle when you hangout with a bunch of turkeys Mr Mueller! If there is an umlaut above one of the letters in your last name I apologize for the misspelling.

I can apologize if I’m incorrect.

Yes Rooster, I’ve been in this hobby for a very, very long time.

I’ve seen more than my fill of turkeys, not just in the hobby. I have seen x number of “experts” promise just about anything from the unlikely to the impossible; with the general attitude that it will be just fine.

On many occasions I had the opportunity to see things go a “bit weird” and the turkeys flap their wings in a furious manner, to no avail. On other occasions I had the opportunity to straighten “things”, in short I have enough experience to recognize a turkey by actions. From your statements I doubt very much that you can do the same. But since you’re a Rooster you probably have more affinity to turkeys than I do.

Oh BTW, I have no problem apologizing if the case warrants it, but I usually judge on a case by case basis.

Rooster, you take exception to this: ???

"Advertiser’s pressure should not even be an issue i.e. the reviewer writes it up exactly as it is; warts and all.

The kind of pressure that used to be/or appeared to be exerted on certain publications was way out of line.

Now that is what really hurts the hobby in the long run."

REALLY? So if you take exception to the above statements,your opinion MUST be contrary, i.e. the direct opposite.

Therefore, YOU have indicated that in YOUR opinion:

1. Reviews do not need to be factual

2. It’s welcome when a manufacturer exerts pressure on publications to get their way.

REALLY? Or you are just trying to oppose HJ?

It’s the attitude that anything negative hurts the hobby, is what will indeed result in failure.

As Aristo has just painfully proved, believing everything is perfect, banning negative comments, creates a fantasy land (Aristo forum); that even surrounding yourself with people that agree with you, this fantasy land cannot survive, witness one of the largest G manufacturer’s ignoble demise.

And the descent of opposing viewpoints into personal comments makes no one the wiser or better, or solves any problems. It just takes people away from the forum. I no longer publicly post my help and information.

Greg

reviews need to be factual and impartial!
why do some guys think they’re the best at that?
they can’t even stand anything positive about anything they chose not to run!!

Reviews? Just one man’s opinion of an item.
We don’t have to believe it.

Joe Paonessa said:

reviews need to be factual and impartial!
why do some guys think they’re the best at that?
they can’t even stand anything positive about anything they chose not to run!!

Yes they need to be factual and objective. The objective of a review is: advising the potential buyer what he will get for x amount of money.

Good reviewers look at it from a buyers point i.e. as if the reviewer would buy the item. Which is the next point. To get a factual and objective review the reviewer buys his sample off the shelf from a retailer — with his own money. This point is quite realistic with LS products, but works best if the reviewer would buy the product in any case. The appreciation what the consumer gets or doesn’t get increases correspondingly.

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Oh BTW, I have no problem apologizing if the case warrants it, but I usually judge on a case by case basis.

Hardly.
You recently proved this to be untrue when you insulted a member and justified your insult rather than apologize.
Most of the regulars here didn’t expect any different. We’ve seen how you operate for years now.
Ralph

some kids just can’t stop complaining about anything. They won’t speak of the value. Instead they justify why they don’t use it or any other product by hiding their beliefs as “reviews”!
Too many negative people here and when they finally leave, they just hide for a minute or whine to make themselves heard.

Ya know, the last month or so of this forum has been really good with a lot of activity about TRAINS, many exciting builds in the Mik’s challenge plus Roosters and Marconi’s builds to boot.

Its too bad a few of you less fortunate modelers (or should I say hobbiest because you haven’t proved to be modelers yet)have to stir up drama and contoversy to get your post counts higher

Y’all need to go play with trains or something, this cold weather is gettin to ya

Oh stay tuned for a post from Scott Polk, their container passed customs yesterday and has items long out of stock…

but Mark, if they bash Polk, MTH, etc., etc., and sold off stuff because their wifes made them, how can they ever buy anymore Aristo products? That would defeat their word, which we all have learned is worth gold.

Great to see, But wondering if it’s going to have Aristo boxs or if he placed an order for his own product and boxed it as such…Time will tell.

Ralph Berg said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Oh BTW, I have no problem apologizing if the case warrants it, but I usually judge on a case by case basis.

Hardly.
You recently proved this to be untrue when you insulted a member and justified your insult rather than apologize.
Most of the regulars here didn’t expect any different. We’ve seen how you operate for years now.
Ralph

I guess the case didn’t warrant it. Yep, April 3rd 2002; 12 years coming up.