Nick S. said:

Bob McCown said:

I’m going to take huge exception to these statements. There’s a gigantic difference between “the trucks on the Shay fall apart” and “bad mouthing a manufacturer”. Most of the gripes about products are legitimate complaints. Speaking to my own purchases, the first generation Shay trucks were garbage, and broke apart. The Climax driveline was designed incorrectly and bound, the Connie and K27 gearing was wonky. The 45 tonner bucks going downgrade. All of these are legitimate complaints, but they are also things that should have been caught with any due diligence before hundreds of units were sold. I shouldnt have had to BUY the updated trucks for my Shays. I’m not the one running the business, I shouldnt have to outlay the money for a manufacturer to correct his own manufacturing process.

BINGO…What I’ve been saying for years…

It is unfortunate that the “legitimate complaints” aren’t part of a balanced product review. Anyone new to the product will only find the bad, not the good.
It’s like the general internet review system. Seldom do you find good reviews - the only people who post are the ones who had a bad experience, not the satisfied ones.

If the product doesn’t do what you think it should, then let’s have some balance. Did you pay a lot of money ? Does the product look good to you even though it has problems. Was it great value for money before yu had the hassle of fixing it?

The Product Reviews forum might be a better place for all the gripes. Especially if the complaints are grouped with the general information review thread.

Personally, I think we are very lucky that Bachmann makes us such wonderfully detailed models, and then acknowledges the problems and offers fixes.

Pete,

I will only comment here by stating that as a general rule manufacturers don’t WANT to here about the shortcomings of their products, no matter how simple. Magazine reviewers are paid by the magazine, the magazine is paid by the manufacturers to advertise. You get the picture. No matter what the downside is, the magazine will most likely not print it.

As for fixing the problems known to the manufacturers, that is a crock as well. It has taken how many years for Bachmann to finally replace the plastic gears with metal ones in the 10 wheeler and the connie? It took me 6 months to finally get two replacement axle/gears for a friend and my connies. USA has never properly addressed the split axle issues in their diesels. AristoCraft never really fixed the dirver issues with their steamer.

Jump in your ‘way back machine’ and remember when Microsoft tried that tactic with Windows 95. Sell a defective product and then charge the guinea pig customer to fix their screw ups. At leas there the government stepped in and said ‘NO’ fix your broken product.Remington arms sold the Model 700 BDL with a defective safety, AFTER being told by the engineering team it needed to be fixed. Less than $0.05 per weapon then and how many millions of dollars to pay off law suits today.

Defective product is defective product. If the manufacturer doesn’t want to hear about the faults of his product, put out a product that is not fraught with issues.

I’ll get off my soap box now.

Bob C.

Pete,

If you want to read “balanced” reviews you read the hobby press. Once you’re done with the reviews you check Google for complaints.

Someone comes along and gives that old routine of “it hurts the hobby” I just take another deep breath, instead of posting “What utter bullshit! !!”

As always strictly my opinion!

Clearly there is still a contingent that believes ANY negative comment on ANY product is wrong, factual or not.

I won’t contribute anything here if/when that kind of viewpoint is embraced by the management. The “opposition” to any negative comments quickly moves from facts to name calling and personal attacks.

I’ve reserved my help for people and environments that appreciate it.

Greg

There is a whole world of difference between noting a problem with a particular product than the personal attacks this forum is noted for. The recent comment about Lewis in the health post was totally uncalled for. Similarly. this forum bad mouthed him for weeks about closing. But as obvious, his health and age are catching up to him and he could find no buyers for the company. Attacks on Scott who is attempting to resurect Aristro on a shoe string is also uncalled for. Doesn’t anyone think if he had the funds, many conatiners of Aristro would arriving weekly? Similarly when Backmann had some manufactuirng problems, it was fair game to attack Jack directly. LGB before that.

The attack on Navin about the current status of the Revo sound boards: Doesn’t anyone think if he had the funds we would be seeing all kinds of upgraded sounds. These companies are not GM what they want to do and what they can do within the constraints of revenue coming in often vary widely. They often promise things they think they can introduce quickly only to find the startup costs are greater than they anticpated and revenues are not as high as they anticpated. They are in business becaause they are dreamers and often the dreams are bigger than they can afford.

NO BOB you have done a very poor job of keeping the critiques to product defects/wants and not personal attacks of which I am guilty of here.

And yet the some guy came out about his new MALLET BURNING TO THE GROUND AND blamed it on a sound manufacture when the loco manufacture was at fault. Old school dies hard but does go away. Welcome back Greg, a your posts are always welcome.

Remember all, Adirondacks are for true NY ers only. Please all stop blaming Bob for your inaccuracy’s

As usual. other forum is the best place for inaccurate posts. I think once again it’s time to lock her down.

Alan Lott said:

(Snip)

So far no one has commented on my question about diesel sounds. I raised the question hoping to deflect a flame war, seems it didn’t work. lol

(Snip)

For the curious in a nutshell the post was about the need for different diesel sounds not just one sound for all the different types of diesels.

What would be a positive step. on this Forum (generally a positive place anyway) would be to mention a company that actually makes different sounds for different diesels.

(Snip)

Alan, is there any other diesel sound necessary than ALCo? I mean, really? Well, perhaps a Winton, here or there…

Apart from his comments about the REVO sound ESC’s, the poster at the Aristo forum also had a pop at Phoenix as being outdated technology.

Alan,

I was/am cautious about elaborating as at least one comment in the original posting at the Aristo forum about the source of some sound samples used, could easily have be considered defamatory.

Nick,

As I stated earlier, Noting the pros and cons of any give product is fair game and what the forum is about. I did not attack John when the Pheonix board failed. I noted it failed. John discussed the reason it failed and it is corrected. No personal blame/attack to John.

What I feel is totally detrimental to the hobby is the personal attacks such as the one made about Lewis recently. And ones amde directed towards Scott. You and others are not in his shoes trying to make business decisions with little or no money. He may not have the funds to pay someone to develop his webb page. Why beat him down before he gets started. Similarly with Navin and the advancement of sounds for the Revo.

By the way, I am currently mostly a UAS guy with revo, Aristro steam and some Bachmann geared engines. I just hate to see this forum bash guys for trying to make prducts available to us that the general public can afford.

Well, I have to admit Steve that you are quite correct. My diesels are all RS3 and FA-1’s.

Now for the flak! lol

Steve Featherkile said:

Alan, is there any other diesel sound necessary than ALCo? I mean, really? Well, perhaps a Winton, here or there…

thomas prevost said:

…

What I feel is totally detrimental to the hobby is the personal attacks such as the one made about Lewis recently. And ones amde directed towards Scott. You and others are not in his shoes trying to make business decisions with little or no money. He may not have the funds to pay someone to develop his webb page. Why beat him down before he gets started. Similarly with Navin and the advancement of sounds for the Revo.

…

OK fact is, Scott announced that the website was going online when it was finished/presentable. What showed up could be designed in one day, have it up the next day and propagated in no time.

The only reason I know is: have done it for friends and customers. But we didn’t send out email, tell others to spread the word or any of that hoopla. The websites go up PRONTO and the rest is history.

OTOH there’s also the saying that a leopard will not change its spots!

PS If you don’t like Bob’s style and/or the drift of the threads on here

NO BOB you have done a very poor job of keeping the critiques to product defects/wants and not personal attacks of which I am guilty of here.

How about you start your own forum and do your own moderating? Or start a Facebook Group called “Everything is perfect in the LS world”

I read the thread at Aristo this morning, I’m still puzzled why Tony would bring up this subject 5 years after the original posting

Yes the original post this conversation is about was posted in 2007

Bob clearly stated that Large Scale Central contributors generally report product evaluations factually.
I agree.
A poorly designed, constructed, or ineffective product likely affects more than the just the reviewing author. Significance of product reports is enhanced because the topic is a consumer product with potential and current buyers. We are the Consumer Reports for the hobby.

Here’s the problem area:
Assessment of ownership, management, and sales personnel is more difficult since it is a personal event - and may be limited to that relationship and that time. What is factual for one may not be the same factual experience for another.

Remedy:
Report product performance, foibles, fictions, claims, and continue to have applause for quality.
On personal personnel experiences, carefully word reports to objectively describe YOUR experience – not generalize those of others.

Mark Dash said:

I read the thread at Aristo this morning, I’m still puzzled why Tony would bring up this subject 5 years after the original posting

Yes the original post this conversation is about was posted in 2007

Let’s see. Revo and changeable sound were mentioned as topics of the post.
The Revo with sound hasn’t been around anywhere near 5 years

As for the claim this forum has a bad reputation…with who?
People on the “other” forum?
A mysterious retailer?
Anyone who has spent a good deal of time reading this forum, would not cast doubt on it’s reputation.
If all you read are the controversial topics, then certainly one might have a tainted view of the forum.

But if someone is just here to waller in the crap, I really don’t give a rat’s a** what they think about us anyway
Ralph

The crybaby in the Aristo forum was posting about a service he was offering to sell to aristo to add to their Revo System. Basically he was shot down by Lewis and cried about it in a rampage.

I’m 99% sure the date I saw was 2007

Regardless, the question remains, why bring this up?

Mark Dash said:

Regardless, the question remains, why bring this up?

Because some people just like to stir up controversy.
Certainly not a phenomenon regulated to this forum
Ralph

Ralph Berg said

Because some people just like to stir up controversy.
Certainly not a phenomenon regulated to this forum
Ralph

I would think if you are a competitor of sorts with a company then there is a fine line between “critique” and bad mouthing said competitor.

If you can’t talk up your own products and resort to talking down the competition then you have already lost the battle

Tea and fancy sandwiches are being served down the hall and to the right gentlemen

David Russell said:

Tea and fancy sandwiches are being served down the hall and to the right gentlemen

Soooo what happens to the left gentlemen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_and_Leaves