—drivel deleted—
John Joseph Sauer said:
WOW! Now we have truly arrived, again!
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, bury them in BS!
His account was just suspended. Go read his post history, its all garbage.
Since the original post, which I quoted, was deleted by our beloved site owner, I shall remove the quote and balanced, reasonable commentary…!
TOC
Dave
First what you are referring to is clearly labeled as a “NMRA New Product Announcement”. It’s not their catalog at all. It is only the items they decided to announce at the NMRA National train show. Less products were announced this year in all scales when compared to prior years.
In large scale they announced 4 versions of the Peter Witt Streetcar and one track power connector. Some years they announce 1:20.3 items some years they do not. Seeing as they just released several new 1:20.3 items and considering the softness of the market, it’s great to see any new large scale announcements. They have done the Peter Witt in all the other scales so it was a natural to produce it in Large Scale and the market for standard gauge products such as this is clearly 1:29. If they did it in 1:20 it would be for 70 mm track with limited appeal.
I was at the NMRA National show this year and posted photos of all the manufacturers showing Large Scale product there. I must say that in Large Scale the Bachmann booth was impressive.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23959355@N05/sets/72157634706242613/
What do you say we go back to an interesting thread describing some cool modifications to a great locomotive.
Stan
Its true aside from Mr Toby and Mr Peter Witt there are no new LS items this year, it is also true that in the General Catalog, there are still lots of 1/22 1/20 Thomas and LBH items listed, but how much of that is new product -vs- new old stock (NOS) is anyones guess.
Methinks Bmann is sitting on their existing stock of previous produced items until sales attrition, grantedly much slower than years past, has reduced this stock down to where new production can be justified, that means we get NOS for the time being.
I will say I was disappointed to see no new items for the LBH line, granted I wasn’t hoping for much, just that they would have released the boxcar, gondola and combine as part of the loose car offerings. You can currently only get these cars as part of a starter set. I have since procured a combine for my Bumble Bee set, but I could sure as heck use the boxcar shell for a track cleaner I am working on.
I wonder how well the line is selling. Someone REALLY needs to get them into Target Toys-r-us or Lowes or Costco or similar big box before Xmas.
Wrong spot
Stan Ames said:
Dave
First what you are referring to is clearly labeled as a “NMRA New Product Announcement”. It’s not their catalog at all. It is only the items they decided to announce at the NMRA National train show. Less products were announced this year in all scales when compared to prior years.
In large scale they announced 4 versions of the Peter Witt Streetcar and one track power connector. Some years they announce 1:20.3 items some years they do not. Seeing as they just released several new 1:20.3 items and considering the softness of the market, it’s great to see any new large scale announcements. They have done the Peter Witt in all the other scales so it was a natural to produce it in Large Scale and the market for standard gauge products such as this is clearly 1:29. If they did it in 1:20 it would be for 70 mm track with limited appeal.
I was at the NMRA National show this year and posted photos of all the manufacturers showing Large Scale product there. I must say that in Large Scale the Bachmann booth was impressive.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23959355@N05/sets/72157634706242613/
What do you say we go back to an interesting thread describing some cool modifications to a great locomotive.
Stan
Stanley. You can dance around it all you want. Historically, Bachmann has announced their new products at the nmra show.
Your response, if taken at face value, would indicate those items are only to be released at the 2013 nmra show, which we know is not true.
If you ignore the nmra, it’s 2013 new product announcements.
Fair amount of new in N, H0, and some in 0n30, but, geez, Stanley.
In LS all that’s there are four trolleys?
Come on.
TOC
Blaw Blaw Blaw 
Careful
Dave
Let me turn this around.
In your opinion, in 2013 which manufacturer in Large Scale anounced the correct the amount of new products that you will be purchasing and are excited about.
Clearly if there is a manufacturer out there that is doing it right from your perspective others should listen.
Stan
Maybe. But what you’re trying to say is that this isn’t all…but it really is.
We aren’t talking the old stuff, some quite old, in the catalog. When was the big Porter first released? Three truck Shay? 4-4-0? Big Hauler? Heck, even the Meyer is 5 years old.
Yeah, some have new underpinnings, but those are existing.
The question has never been what you are now trying to say, but I really expected no less.
The question is, “New” for “2013”, and all there is, all of it, in the major new product announcement, is four trolleys.
Period.
No little big hauler stuff, no 1:20, no 1:22.5, no Big Hauler, nothing. Not even repaints.
Bottom line, as the discussion was, is the only thing new in LS from Bachmann for 2013 is those four trolleys in a scale never before done on purpose by Bachmann in Large Scale.
How do we twist that around?
Just asking.
Politely.
TOC
Stan, as a consultant for Bachmann, can you provide any insight on further 1:29 offerings?
Hopefully they will also follow the NMRA recommendations, and not use the 21 pin interface that the NMRA said to not use.
Greg
Why are we berating Bachmann now?
Are we not going to be satisfied until all manufacturers of Large Scale equipment fold up.
As a business man I can tell you that Bachmann is doing the right thing in not investing in new tooling, design and whatever else it takes to bring a new product to market. As was stated, the LS market is very soft right now. If you are to survive you have to minimize costs. New releases are the first to go. Sorry, guys it is the nature of business and we had better get used to it. I don’t see the economic situations for most people improving too much for a while.
As far as quality of Bachmann, I have a new C-19. Love it, runs great. I have not modified it one bit except to add batt/rc and titan to the board.
I also have a Bachmann 2-6-6-2, I purchased it because of the pic you see in my sig. I use that locomotive in displays at the museum and the radius of the track is 4.5 ft. I have no problems at all of it running in this circle.
I can tell you one thing is for sure. Bachmann did do there homework in one way. I sat there and watched them crawl all over #110 as they took measurements, notes, pictures and everything else they wanted. They didn’t have to do that. They didn’t have to fly a crew of designers from who knows where, put them up in a hotel, buy their food and whatever else they needed. They could have “shot from the hip” and used the Baldwin drawings and called it good. Sure the loco isn’t perfect, but nothing is. Not in LS and not in any other scale.
I’m not a Bachman fanboi, however, I am a “glass half full” kind of guy. I’m just happy to run my trains and enjoy my garden (when it isn’t under 4’ of snow!!!).
Dave
I do not know when Toby was anounced but since all the major manufacturer shows are now complete for 2013, I do not expect to see anything else anounced in Large Scale in 2013. But new anoouncements are a whole different topic then your statement that “they just cut 1:20 completely out of the new catalog” which is a totally false statement. And I do find it humorous that you fail to list any of the updated product produced in the last few years.
Its a hard market out there and any new product is most appreciated, at least by me.
The question still remains. In your opinion, in 2013 which manufacturer in Large Scale anounced the correct amount of new products that you will be purchasing and are excited about?
Why critize those that are trying to procuce new product in this market.
If we are going to see more new product by anyone in the future there has to be a market. Increase the Large Scale market and new products will follow from a variety of manufacturers.
Stan
PS Note that Bachmann updated their new product anouncements at Ihobby and it looks like most products were delayed a little.
http://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catalogs/2013/iHobby_2013.pdf
Bachmann has been a victim of its own success. Back in the heady days overproduction was normal, not just for Bachmann but basically for all the then major manufacturers in the popular gauges/scales with the exclusion of the ‘true’ gauge 1.
There is so much ‘new old stock’ available online that current production is competing with items produced more than ten years or more ago. There are still NOS black box Aristo, B’mann Connies, Americans, Big Haulers, Annies, 3-truck Shays, Meyers and countless LGB items in the market. While the Meyer would not have been overproduced it did suffer from consumer apathy. The idea was good but given the evolution of 1/20.3 scale the basics just did not wash in the new ‘scale’ environment. The Meyer was basically a rehashed LGB Uintah ‘Mallett’ in its overall design. The market accepted the compromises LGB made to follow their R1 capability principle, but times changed and compromises were no longer tolerated in the ‘new’ quest for gauge fidelity.
Look to the excellent Bachmann Forney. Many simply did not accept the gauge compromise. LGB got away with it, but LGB were not seen as ‘scale’ models. Three-foot gauge Forneys did exist, but most see a Forney as a two-foot gauge prototype with no place in a three-foot gauge world. The Forney was one of the newer ‘sensible production’ items with limited production runs only as with the C-19’s. One can always produce more but it is hard to compete with NOS in the marketplace once overproduction has occurred. This kills off the value of the heavy investment in tooling. It is simply not cost effective to tool for only one production run. will we see a new production run K-27, most unlikely in the forseeable future.
For Bachmann the Big Hauler range is their staple stock in trade and most newcomers would be aware of its existence. Stan states the market as ‘soft’. In reality the market has collapsed and is surviving on older production items made perhaps ten to fifteen years earlier. Bachmann learned that overproduction was not good business and all recent production has been in ‘sensible’ numbers, reflecting the anticipated demand at any given time. Several years ago I purchased a new LGB Genesis diesel for one third the current selling price from the same seller. I paid $215.00. At the time the MSRP was at least four times that figure, but overproduction (and rubbery scale) killed off the market. These days with less on sale the demand and price have risen dramatically.
Manufacturers are wiser these days as consumers become more discerning in their needs and expectations. The Meyer was a victim of its basic compromises to attain the smallest operating radius to make it attractive to a wider market. In reality it disuaded the ‘scale’ oriented folk. An excellent product, but alas, consumers no longer wanted design compromised production that followed the obsolete R1 philosophy.
I am getting tired of this constant bashing of manufacturers. Some posters need to find other things to do with their spare time, other than whine about defects of our TOYS. We are grown men playing with toys and yes they break down and yes some are of inferior quality. So pick the ones ya want and go outside and play with them.
I am getting tired of all the bickering and whining. I have not posted here much of lately because everytime I log-in I see this.
I’m not sure what’s worse, over production or underproduction… Look at some of the offerings in the smaller scales. If you don’t preorder, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll ever be able to find one after the production run stops. I know Micro-Trains is one company that is really good about releasing new product, but their production runs are tiny. If you don’t preorder, fat chance ever finding the product again.
Clearly USAT and Bachmann are both trying to get rid of NOS before releasing new product. That makes since, but it would be nice to see new road names or paint schemes. Or even better yet how about the same road names with different car numbers (or gasp offer the road names without numbers, so the modeler can by more than one or two without having identical road numbers)
The other thing that I see is this NOS being sold at prices higher than when originally produced… Why? If the original cost (Street, MAP or MSRP) was X why jack up the prices to Y? If the product is already produced why the “need” for an increased price?
Jake, no one is bashing Bachmann ( I think), to me this is more a discussion about what constitutes “new” …
Stan,
Toby was announced in the NMRA ‘new releases’ catalog (page 10 your own link) at the same time as the Peter Witts were announced, and technically Dave is correct, there isn’t anything 1/20.3 in the new releases for 2013, there isn’t anything in the Spectrum or Big Hauler or Lil Hauler lineup for this year for that matter. Toby and Peter have release dates of Nov 2014. Yet smaller scale once again, are getting lots of Christmas presents.
Last year we got the C19, Emily, some Thomas line cars and the LBH line, that was pretty good.
This year we get Toby and a trolley in the wrong scale (wink) , I can understand why some are feeling underwhelmed…
As I stated above, I have my suspicions as to why that make a certain economic sense to myself. (clear out the old)
My biggest fear is that next year the only large scale release we will get will be a whole new complete lineup of large scale trains…Chuggington Trains
(http://kathsfunnylittlelife.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/panic-smiley.gif)
Stan Ames said:
Dave
Let me turn this around.
In your opinion, in 2013 which manufacturer in Large Scale anounced the correct the amount of new products that you will be purchasing and are excited about.
Clearly if there is a manufacturer out there that is doing it right from your perspective others should listen.
Stan
Here you go Stan
http://www.accucraft.com/PR/AT%2032%20PASSENGER%20CAR%20(PR)%202013-10-10.pdf
Not only new, but the proper 1:32nd scale.
Sure they are expensive but at least the Mainline Live Steamers will not have to resort to the toy like MTH offerings.
1:32nd scale offers one thing that 1;29 scale can never offer. The scale is attractive to those that like proper scale models. Especially collectors, who have zero interest in anything but proper scale.
Accucraft know this and must feel reasonably secure in an insecure market place.
Perhaps the demise of AristoCraft is more to do with making models in an an odd ball scale which seems to be rapidly falling over, than any other factor.