Large Scale Central

If you're wondering about the GR forum

General Discussion
#61

Randy McDonald said:

I am getting tired of this constant bashing of manufacturers. Some posters need to find other things to do with their spare time, other than whine about defects of our TOYS. We are grown men playing with toys and yes they break down and yes some are of inferior quality. So pick the ones ya want and go outside and play with them.
I am getting tired of all the bickering and whining. I have not posted here much of lately because everytime I log-in I see this.

I am going to say this real carefully.
You need to wise up.
This is not bickering, bashing, whining or any other thing your mind may tell you it is.
There are faults.
And, unlike the Aristo forum where those faults could not be discussed, we discuss them here.
Freely.
Yes, some break down. Usually because of stupidity or cost cutting or saving money on QC. Some of us come up with “fixes” for those failings, and are promptly shouted down.
I really wish I could tell you what I think of your posting, but I keep thinking of Bob’s blood pressure.
Maybe if you saved that post, and just copied it into every thread, it would save you some time.
We finally, after two pages, got Stanley to admit there was nothing new from Bachmann. Not my fault it took two pages.
If we don’t point those defects out, and possibly approach the “whining” stage, nothing gets fixed by the manufacturer.
Look, it took 10 years plus for Bachmann to come up with an axle gear fix for the 2-8-0.
We don’t complain, they ignore the issues.
Gawd, I wish I could tell you what I think.
TOC

#62

Oh boy! The original thread was less than one page and we’re on to page 4? Hmmm?

@ Randy

Going by the price tags on my “toys” I certainly don’t consider them “toys”. But it is possible that we’re not talking about the same items.

Toy

#63

Randy, you are not forced to read this thread.

You have been making very personal comments about people also, me included.

Maybe if your name was Lewis Polk you could take this personally… maybe.

I would recommend not reading this thread, personally I have not attacked you, but it’s only a matter of time when the people you personally attack, attack back.

So for everyone, YOU stop the bickering, and personal attacks please.

Greg

#64

Really, you guys think Randy is the cause of all the threads getting locked lately ?
And before the same crew start jumping in on telling me I better be careful or you will tell me what you really think I will save you the trouble.
TOC, Greg and anyone else that thinks this posting is about you… It is!
Go start your own forum somewhere so you guys can have you all mighty attitude to yourself.
Talk to each other about how great you are, about how much you hate… Yes hate (read your own postings) every manufacturer that has ever existed.
Go ahead go have fun, get it all over your self.

And Bob, feel free to delete this, ban me, or repost in every thread topics the bunch of know it all’s go in and destroy .
with there constant babbling about the way things should be I can no longer read any topic that they respond in anyway.

So have fun in your quest to ruin a great forum, your doing a great job.

#65

I agree with you Vincent. I like reading about things on this site and have learned quite a bit. I feel I am part of the silent majority and just listen. But as someone once said, I cringe and roll my eyes when certain know it alls post something. My two cents!

#66

I agree 100% with Vincent and have tried to say so before and have been put down. There is strength in numbers and the numbers would like these guys to stop ruining this forum!

#67

TOC and Greg I think that was a little uncalled for by going after Randy. He has a legit point. He is stating the obvious and he did so by not mentioning anyone name. Both of you have great knowledge in this hobby. But, so does Randy, he is a true craftsman and berating him does not help any of us.

Berating you guys doesn’t either.

Knowledge is wonderful thing, and when you have worked hard throughout the years cultivating it, a person tends to not see past what they have learned. We all do it, but a true teacher will always look to improve their knowledge through the experience of others. Greg and TOC you are teachers, if you wish to improve this hobby be teachers, not lecturers. This means that sometimes we must understand that even though your own experience has said not to “jump”. Let the student “jump” and then help him learn from his mistake. Afterall, it the mistakes we learn from, not the accomplishments.

#68

Randy McDonald said:

I am getting tired of this constant bashing of manufacturers. Some posters need to find other things to do with their spare time, other than whine about defects of our TOYS. We are grown men playing with toys and yes they break down and yes some are of inferior quality. So pick the ones ya want and go outside and play with them.
I am getting tired of all the bickering and whining. I have not posted here much of lately because everytime I log-in I see this.

Agree with Randy, It is also true that when somebody shoots off mouth, is wrong he won’t admit it like a man, spends many hours posting ridiculous reply’s when called on it.

This kind of stuff is far worse for our shrinking large scale hobby than you might imagine. If I was new to the hobby an read all this BS, I would run like hell and find another hobby.

Look at this site only 3200 or so members. I wonder how many are active and check in frequently. I had not checked the site for several years until two weeks ago. If six or so people dominate the site, bitch and complain all the time and make stupid statements just to raise their number of posts and see themselves in print, it is not a place I want to be.

#69

I have a lot of respect for the folks who know the solutions to problems, ways to accomplish things, and who have been around long enough to know the whole story, the extended history of “how we got here.” One of the best parts of these forums has always been being able to get a correct answer, and a workable solution to a problem, or a reasonable and accurate answer to a question. And, along the way, it’s possible to make a friend, share some ideas, tell some stories. Because of these folks, I have a railroad that works, and have managed to become a lot better at what I’m doing in model trains since I started out to build large scale in 2000.

Anybody can be loud. Not so many can be the kind of valuable resource these guys are.

Matthew (OV)

#70

(http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/John-Adams-Poster-Facts.jpg)

#71

Agree totally with Vincent.

#72

Vic Smith said:

(http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/John-Adams-Poster-Facts.jpg)

Vic,

Now that is spot on!

#73

Have any of you noticed the comments that, if one wasn’t sure they were on LSC, might be comments from, oh, one of the various iterations of the Aristo Forum?
“Go start your own forum somewhere”
“I agree with you Vincent”
"I agree 100% with Vincent "
“Agree with Randy”
The real kicker is this one:

"I think that was a little uncalled for by going after Randy. He has a legit point. He is stating the obvious and he did so by not mentioning anyone name. Both of you have great knowledge in this hobby. But, so does Randy, he is a true craftsman and berating him does not help any of us. "

You think his broadside should have been ignored?
You think his complete lack of understanding should not have been challenged?
You think his berating of others should be ignored?

Somehow, I think most of the folks anymore on forums must imagine their trains appear by some form of osmosis.
I see all these comments from folks who seem to know about hate. Seem to think I hate all manufacturers.

They haven’t a clue.
And when I try to explain it to them, they still don’t have a clue.

Remember what Greg said…Randy (or anyone else) is not being forced to read this thread.

I can tell by the response that no-one actually read (with understanding) my response to Randy in full.

Once the bashing, bickering, whining, hating accusations get so loud and continuous that nobody wants to be involved with the screamers anymore, then there is no one to hold the manufacturer’s feet to the fire and get some of this stupidity fixed, and hopefully stopped.

Some day, when all you have is New Blight (sp) trains to run, and they have to be replaced every six months, you might open your eyes and realize if you’d kept your yap shut, and let those who knew what was wrong address it, maybe the sales would have been enough for your favorite company to still be around.

I can’t wait for the next “bashing” episode. This has become so predictable it isn’t even funny.

#74

I have noted that last line… I have “Moved along”…after having read, and read, and got bored with the constant repetition…

#75

“and they have to be replaced every six months”

Let’s see. $40 for a New Bright train every 6 months. In 5 years I will have spent $400 on my tran and it will still be running.
Interesting.

#76

Pete Thornton said:

“and they have to be replaced every six months”

Let’s see. $40 for a New Bright train every 6 months. In 5 years I will have spent $400 on my tran and it will still be running.
Interesting.

Pete,

That’s very similar to the “experience” comparison: “Twenty years of experience you say? Is that 20 times of one year experience or is that the real twenty year deal?”

#77

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

Have any of you noticed the comments that, if one wasn’t sure they were on LSC, might be comments from, oh, one of the various iterations of the Aristo Forum?
“Go start your own forum somewhere”
“I agree with you Vincent”
"I agree 100% with Vincent "
“Agree with Randy”
The real kicker is this one:

"I think that was a little uncalled for by going after Randy. He has a legit point. He is stating the obvious and he did so by not mentioning anyone name. Both of you have great knowledge in this hobby. But, so does Randy, he is a true craftsman and berating him does not help any of us. "

You think his broadside should have been ignored?
You think his complete lack of understanding should not have been challenged?
You think his berating of others should be ignored?

Somehow, I think most of the folks anymore on forums must imagine their trains appear by some form of osmosis.
I see all these comments from folks who seem to know about hate. Seem to think I hate all manufacturers.

They haven’t a clue.
And when I try to explain it to them, they still don’t have a clue.

Remember what Greg said…Randy (or anyone else) is not being forced to read this thread.

I can tell by the response that no-one actually read (with understanding) my response to Randy in full.

Once the bashing, bickering, whining, hating accusations get so loud and continuous that nobody wants to be involved with the screamers anymore, then there is no one to hold the manufacturer’s feet to the fire and get some of this stupidity fixed, and hopefully stopped.

Some day, when all you have is New Blight (sp) trains to run, and they have to be replaced every six months, you might open your eyes and realize if you’d kept your yap shut, and let those who knew what was wrong address it, maybe the sales would have been enough for your favorite company to still be around.

I can’t wait for the next “bashing” episode. This has become so predictable it isn’t even funny.

I’m sorry if I misread you comment. I went back and re-read it trying to figure out where you were coming from in a constructive way, giving you the benefit of the doubt. I even went as far is to try to figure out where Randy started the fire that caused you to attack him. I’m sorry I couldn’t figure it out.

I am really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt on this because I respect your opinion on the overall mechanics of Large Scale equipment. I just don’t see where Randy deserves to be attacked for stating the obvious that many others including myself have said already.

And to be fair, re-read my last paragraph in my last comment. That is really what I wish you would understand.

#78

It was good to quote me and not what I quoted.
Fred says I can’t repeat it again, so I won’t try to explain.
Does absolutely no good.

I will say, show me where it is really “bashing”.
Show me one post of “hatred” towards a manufacturer.
Show me anywhere, even from another forum, where anyone is glad Aristo is going…going…gone.

Didn’t happen, yet the posts just keep on coming.

There is no hatred. There is no bashing. Nobody wants to see Aristo go.
Randy’s post mentioned most of that. Others have mentioned the rest.

Anyone who engages in that activity, as far as I personally am concerned, is part of the problem, not the solution.

I have worked with manufacturers on “issues”. It’s like mating elephants…except it takes longer by far for a positive outcome.

I suppose when I mention it took Bachmann over 10 years to address the splitting axle gears on the first 2-8-0, some consider that hatred and bashing.
Simply a comment on facts…and how long it takes to get something done.

I know the manufacturers have their favourite “experts”…most are thankfully unknown to mere mortals.
I’d like to have a chat sometime with some of them, just to find out what exactly they were looking at before production was approved.

The fault for the failure lies with the folks who did battle to shut up and shut down any discussion on issues and fixes for them. Since these folks were so vocal, and somewhat successful in shutting down discussion, the manufacturer saw no need to address the issues.

I wish you all a lot of luck when the wheels spin on your Mikado and Mallet.
Unless the line is in fact picked up, and the new holders of the company decide to produce fixes, might be interesting.
That tapered axle and wheel stuff could have been fixed years ago.

All those who did the screaming, and forum disruption…those who continue to shout “bashing”, “hatred”, “whining” and all the rest…you seem to have made your bed.

Good Luck!

TOC

#79

Dave,
there is a saying, “Ignorance is bliss”. It seems that a lot of very obvious people, many who followed this same tactic of denial on the Aristo forum ten years ago, are still wanting to ignore issues and live in a perpetual state of bliss. What happens when the unthinkable happens and their wheel falls off or there loco articulated drive seizes?" Why, they unashamedly seek help. Now my mind thinks that if they accept that their locomotive is broken then by their own definition they must be a manufacturer basher. Their chosen brand never, ever, ever breaks. It is a fabrication of those who HATE all manufacturers, obviously some more than others.

Now if you or Greg or others really really really hated manufacturers, why would you spend your valuable time devising corrections to fix the imaginary defects. Something very illogical in the way the denyers think - problems never occur so why do they seek help from those who by their own definition must really hate a manufacturer, to get their precious item fixed. Very illogical. But then all their arguments are illogical. One supposed experienced modeller has been in the hobby for many years and apparently has no knowledge of any Aristo defects (or perhaps he is too proud to admit). Has he been living under a rock? I could spend the rest of the page listing in detail most defects from that one manufacturer and the fact that only one defect was corrected by product improvement and one other by withdrawing the product from sale. The rest of the supposedly imaginary defects are mere figments of some peoples imagination it would seem. Hown many Mikados and Mallets reside on mantlepieces or in boxes because the owner has given up on the constant corrections required? How many Consolidations still sit in their boxes because they cannot reliably stay on the rails. Deny long enough and denial becomes reality, well it does for them until the wheels fall off.

The problem is tea parties and fruitcakes or maybe fruit loops!

#80

Jake Smith said:

…but a true teacher will always look to improve their knowledge through the experience of others. Greg and TOC you are teachers, if you wish to improve this hobby be teachers, not lecturers. This means that sometimes we must understand that even though your own experience has said not to “jump”. Let the student “jump” and then help him learn from his mistake. Afterall, it the mistakes we learn from, not the accomplishments…

Jake,

There is a well known saying, “forewarned is fore armed.” Also a wise piece of advice is to avoid the pitfalls in life particularly if you are forewarned. Would not only a fool who is forewarned deny this advice and jump in the deep end only to hopefully realise his mistake?

You advise that a true teacher would step back and let his student experience a mistake so that he would learn from his mistake through his personal experience. In fact a true teacher would instruct his student in the expected pitfalls should he go down this track and deny the advice given him by the more experienced person. Is it not preferable to learn from others rather than from the personal pain of a mistake?

No matter whether a lecturer or a teacher, it is the student’s responsibility to take onboard the advice given. The student then evaluates the advice and makes his own determination. Should he follow a course of self destruction then to whom may the blame be placed? Is not the student, forwarned with good advice, who then commits the mistake spurning the advice and experience of others, not a fool? Denying good intentioned advice is very foolhardy. Living in a state of ignorance and denying advice given is also very foolhardy.

You live and learn by your mistakes. Would not life be far simpler to accept that others are possibly more experienced in matters in life and perhaps, just perhaps they may know what they are talking about?