You’d have to ask Matthew. If that’s the case, you would think they would have done it right (as the drawings showed, an articulated versus a Meyer) instead of…not so right.
Seemingly not so uncommon for manufacturers, if past experience is any indicator.
One of the guys who operates here has one, and it does load up on my only 4’ radius curve.
TOC
It is highly entertaining to see 4-1/2 year old threads resurrected. Just be careful on any to do with EPL…some folks blood pressure may spike. There are still those on both sides of the river who remember those quite well.
I do believe that the days of getting buddies out of bed to modify posts wholesale on the GR forum are gone. That link is broken, now.
Thankfully.
TOC
I intend for mallets to be the main motive power for my railroad, so it will have to be more or less based around them. And I too want to have a true mallet running on my railroad. It would suck to find that after I get everything built that they are picky on the curves and I have to start all over again.
Falcon 104.
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
You’d have to ask Matthew. If that’s the case, you would think they would have done it right (as the drawings showed, an articulated versus a Meyer) instead of…not so right.
Seemingly not so uncommon for manufacturers, if past experience is any indicator.
One of the guys who operates here has one, and it does load up on my only 4’ radius curve.
TOC
SCRY #6, the modified Mallet, will take a 4’ radius curve without complaint. As most of mine are larger than this, it has no issues here, but there are a couple of #4 or 4’ radius switches (talking about two different types here…) that it still glides on through.
As to radius … the original (prototype) specs called for the locomotive to take 5% grades and 30 degree curves … in 1:20.3, that’s about 9 1/2 foot radius, or just a little over twice the 4’ curve the model will take. If by “original” you meant the mallet in its as-delivered configuration … well, the model bends in the middle, as the rear engine swings out, and the front engine swings over, and there are extremely long sprung drawbars that allow the couplers to move to the corners of the frame, so you can probably get it around a very tight curve indeed… though it’s gonna look funny doing so. In this video, you can see it on my 5 1/2 foot (or so) radius curves …
From the Bachmann “official” video, here’s the factory version on what I’m pretty sure is a #4 switch, but you’d have to ask Stan …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_JpWxx49Lo&feature=player_detailpage#t=264
Did that answer the question?
Matthew (OV)
As an addendum, if TOC says the factory version loads up on his 4’ curve, I’d go with that. All of the places that I have a radius even close to that tight are around specific switches, and don’t require the locomotive to follow that curvature for very long at all. But … remember even in the “De-Meyerized” configuration, you have basically a 2-6-0 coupled to an 0-6-2 coupled to a tender … they follow themselves nicely around curves, as there’s not much in the way of fixed wheelbase anyplace.
Most of my mainline curves were made by laying down an Aristo 5’ radius curve, and then laying down Llagas flext track around the outside of it, tie end to tie end. This allowed some tweaking and adjustment in places while not risking going tighter than the 5’ minimum I’d wanted, with the exception of some of the more tricky switch geometry, as I 've discussed.
Maybe the best way to judge the “swing” on the modified mallet is to watch this, which was shot on the main line, from a good perspective to observe. Sorry about the lighting, and the mess … this is, after all, a series of works in progress all trying to happen at once!
I can also tell you that the various experts I engaged to help with this swore they’d never do another like it … this was nearly a four year project, very expensive (for one who isn’t an expert myself,) and very involved. Eat your Wheaties first, and tread carefully if you take it on!
Matthew (OV)
The “stock” Bachmann articulated will–begrudgingly–go around a 2’ radius curve. It doesn’t look pretty doing it, but it will fit. Not sure about pulling cars, as the one I was using at the time (not my loco) was being used to test automation electronics.
I later acquired one, and modified similar to how Matt did his. When I started out, I locked the rear chassis to the frame and just articulated the front chassis keeping the motor in its original place, opening up the frame to accommodate the extra side-to-side movement. Mathematically (and on my test track) it went around a 5’ radius curve–barely. Out on the railroad, it didn’t like ‘em one bit. So I re-did the front chassis a la Matt’s, and now it fits around a 4’ radius curve with a bit of room to spare.
Later,
K
Matthew (OV) said:
From the Bachmann “official” video, here’s the factory version on what I’m pretty sure is a #4 switch, but you’d have to ask Stan …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_JpWxx49Lo&feature=player_detailpage#t=264
Matthew (OV)
Matthew
The turnout in question was an LGB 1605 turnout. As this is a mainline the turnout has since been replaced by a 2M custom turnout.
Note how little overhang is present. On our railroad we use the 2-6-6-2s for locals in areas where we have tighter turnouts.
Stan
Doh! How’d I miss that it was a curved switch? 4’ radius (R3) give or take a few MM then.
Overhand is a function of pivot. You pivot in the middle, half is taken in the front, half in the back. Making a true articulated, all overhang is inn the front.
Interesting to see the very small amount of boiler offset in the non-OV videos.
I wonder how Kevin did his pivoting. Since the lead engine motor stands up in the narrow smokebox, you can get away with about, oh, 25 foot radius…maybe.
We all looked at the one used here, and shook our collective heads.
Could it have been designed differently?
Yes. But there would have been no place for the Ames Super Socket, which requires the space between the two far spaced motors.
Cast floor is poor, too. That huge speaker hole eliminates the possibility of cutting off the angled frame along the sides to put straight running boards onto it and fabricating a straight boiler for use with a tender.
Cut the sides off, you’re into the speaker hole, and you have a two-piece frame.
I am so glad I didn’t buy one.
TOC
I’d like to see some pictures of yours, Kevin … just to compare conversions. The long promised (and not yet delivered) write-up of mine will have lots. But, today we’re building a siding…
Matthew (OV)
Dave, I pivoted my front chassis a la Matt, but cut away the die-cast frame allowing the motor to move laterally within the confines of the boiler. When I laid it out in the workshop, this arrangement allowed it to go around a 5’ radius, with the only modification to the motor being to round off the flywheel so it didn’t knock against the inside of the boiler shell as it swang side to side. Alas, theory and practice (or in this case, workshop test track and outdoors) proved to be very different environments. So, went back to Matt’s example and reversed the way the motor attaches to the frame. This put the motor over the pivot point.
Matt, I didn’t take any pictures, but drew heavily from yours, so if you’ve seen yours, you’ve for the most part seen mine.
Later,
K
I found a Bachmann 2-6-6-2 at a nice price and bought it without much thought it making it through tight curves. I have been easing all the curves on my RR making the 5’ diameters into 8’s and the 8’s into 10’s. One area that would require too much work is a 15’ long horseshoe tunnel built around 5’ diameter curves. I would run the 2-6-6-2 up to this tunnel then reverse it because I was afraid of a derailment then having to push or pull this beautiful engine out.
I set up a test track indoors and the loco will make it through a 5’ diameter horseshoe curve as long as the track is level but it doesn’t look pretty. Today the 2-6-6-2 makes routine trips through my tight tunnel so it is possible to run one on tight track without modifying it.
Todd Haskins said:
I found a Bachmann 2-6-6-2 at a nice price and bought it without much thought it making it through tight curves. I have been easing all the curves on my RR making the 5’ diameters into 8’s and the 8’s into 10’s. One area that would require too much work is a 15’ long horseshoe tunnel built around 5’ diameter curves. I would run the 2-6-6-2 up to this tunnel then reverse it because I was afraid of a derailment then having to push or pull this beautiful engine out.
I set up a test track indoors and the loco will make it through a 5’ diameter horseshoe curve as long as the track is level but it doesn’t look pretty. Today the 2-6-6-2 makes routine trips through my tight tunnel so it is possible to run one on tight track without modifying it.
I think, from what I’ve read, that Mister Brown is of the 1:20 mindset, which, if taken seriously, precludes stupidity such as .332 rail and locomotives that are fantasy in operation.
The drawings said articulated.
Bachmann made a Meyer.
According to the photos and videos provided, a Meyer just doesn’t cut it.
I mean, how many fluffs do they have to make before they kill off the prime supporters of 1:20?
You would think the room full of employees in China who monitor all these forums and send a morning report to the Tings would have caught this.
Who knows.
Instead of fixing this stuff and believing their technical advisor, they just cut 1:20 completely out of the new catalog.
And they wonder why there is a 40% drop in sales.
TOC
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Instead of fixing this stuff and believing their technical advisor, they just cut 1:20 completely out of the new catalog.
And they wonder why there is a 40% drop in sales.TOC
Dave
There was a time that you provided invaluable information to large scale modelers on how to improve their models. We all benefited from your experience and skill.
Lately however it seems to be an endless string of negative posts rehashing topics over and over again. I am losing track of the times you refer to me as a moron or the times you criticize Bachmann and those they help them.
You state many times that you are not going to purchase Bachmann product yet you continuously berate their products and those that work with them. My mother used to say if you do not have something nice to say about someone do not say anything at all. I think we could all learn to be more civil towards each other and support each other’s different interests.
Where oh where do you get your information about Bachmann cutting 1:20.3 out of their catalog?
Bachmann has an extensive section on 1:20.3 in their 2013 catalog starting on page 226 and continues to run adds for their 1:20.3 product.
I know they would like to do more in the future but frankly the market is a tad soft at the moment with MTH struggling to stay in the Large Scale Market and Aristocrat folding. Even so they continue to introduce new products.
As one who from time to time assists them, I am quite proud of the improvements they have made to their products over the past 6 years. They have made great strides at improving their new products. For example their latest offering, the C-19 is among the finest large scale locomotives ever produced and they have also released two new numbers for their popular 1:20.3 Gramps frameless tank cars.
And yes we have chosen to use 332 stainless rail on our Railway why? It’s a compromise we had to make to build a large outdoor railroad on the ground.
Stan Ames
SJR&P Railway
Stan,
Nothing to do with Bachmann as such or any other mfg, rather … when I have a similar problem with a fellow forum member (on any forum) I’ll take it to PM or email … or just ignore it.
OTOH I guess you two have some history.
PS the above came about in 2011, life’s too short.
DAve, What catalog are you looking at?? Mine shows plenty of 1:20.3 Items
The one released at the nmra show a couple of moths ago, in .pdf format, linked here by Victor.
Scroll, scroll, scroll…all there is is 4 trolleys.
Maybe it’s an addendum.
Who knows.
I looked hard…last page would not open for me or Vic.
Bachmann makes their announcements historically at the nmra show.
Go to their on-line catalog, yes, lots of stuff…some is older…we’re talking “new releases”…which, according to the initial catalog, was…trolleys in 1:29.
http://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catalogs/2013/NMRA_2013.pdf
Halfway down is the only non-Thomas LS “new” item for 2013.
You tell me what we missed?
TOC
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
The one released at the nmra show a couple of moths ago, in .pdf format, linked here by Victor.
Scroll, scroll, scroll…all there is is 4 trolleys.
Maybe it’s an addendum.
Who knows.
I looked hard…last page would not open for me or Vic.
Bachmann makes their announcements historically at the nmra show.
Go to their on-line catalog, yes, lots of stuff…some is older…we’re talking “new releases”…which, according to the initial catalog, was…trolleys in 1:29.
http://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catalogs/2013/NMRA_2013.pdfHalfway down is the only non-Thomas LS “new” item for 2013.
You tell me what we missed?
TOC
Dave
Not releasing a new product in 2013 in 1:20.3 is a far cry from your statement that “they just cut 1:20 completely out of the new catalog”. How many really new releases from any of the majors did you see in 2013. Not much. Having just released both the C19 and more spectrum tank cars in a very slow market they decided that this year they would release new a standard line Large Scale item, and a good one at that.
Large scale is shrinking at the present time. The Garden Railroad Society I belong to has just noticed that even its income is not matching its expenses and it must adapt.
Myself I am real pleased that Bachmann is experimenting and releasing new large scale products. They have a great 1:20 product line and a growing Large Scale product line in other scales. While the new streetcar will not run on our 1:20.3 railway. it will run on several of my friends non 1:20.3 layouts who really like its look and operation.
The large scale market consists of a wide variety of interests. If we wish to grow the hobby we are going to have promote the hobby and embrace the diversity.
Stan Ames
Stan Ames said:
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
The one released at the nmra show a couple of moths ago, in .pdf format, linked here by Victor.
Scroll, scroll, scroll…all there is is 4 trolleys.
Maybe it’s an addendum.
Who knows.
I looked hard…last page would not open for me or Vic.
Bachmann makes their announcements historically at the nmra show.
Go to their on-line catalog, yes, lots of stuff…some is older…we’re talking “new releases”…which, according to the initial catalog, was…trolleys in 1:29.
http://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catalogs/2013/NMRA_2013.pdfHalfway down is the only non-Thomas LS “new” item for 2013.
You tell me what we missed?
TOC
Dave
Not releasing a new product in 2013 in 1:20.3 is a far cry from your statement that “they just cut 1:20 completely out of the new catalog”. How many really new releases from any of the majors did you see in 2013. Not much. Having just released both the C19 and more spectrum tank cars in a very slow market they decided that this year they would release new a standard line Large Scale item, and a good one at that.
Large scale is shrinking at the present time. The Garden Railroad Society I belong to has just noticed that even its income is not matching its expenses and it must adapt.
Myself I am real pleased that Bachmann is experimenting and releasing new large scale products. They have a great 1:20 product line and a growing Large Scale product line in other scales. While the new streetcar will not run on our 1:20.3 railway. it will run on several of my friends non 1:20.3 layouts who really like its look and operation.
The large scale market consists of a wide variety of interests. If we wish to grow the hobby we are going to have promote the hobby and embrace the diversity.
Stan Ames
Show me. In the new catalog, just released, where anything new in 1:20 is announced.
Yeah, late last year they hit us with a $1575MSRP 2-8-0.
I generally phrase my responses carefully.
When I say they cut 1:20 out of the new catalog, that is based upon eyeball data from the Bachmann released new catalog to which I am referring, along with the link.
How many scales do they intend to produce in LS, anyway?
How much is going to be affected by diverting factory floor time and engineering/design work towards something besides the classic 1:22.5 and 1:20?
You noticed, maybe you didn’t, there are no 1:22.5 big hauler items shown in this new catalog either.
We aren’t talking the older stuff shown in the on-line catalog at the Bachmann site. Some of that stuff, design wise, goes back a fur piece.
Again, how did reference to this new .pdf catalog showing new items from bachmann for 2013 NOT show a lack of anything new in 1:20 or 1:22.5?
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