a mosk? at NY ground zero??
after all the rumors and theories in the net - that would be a hell of a statement, to build a mosk at the place, where some jewish owned buildings were destroyed and many north americans were murdered.
my two cents from abroad
.
Freedom is not limited to those who agree with me. Anyone is free to propose an idea. Just as I am free to speak out against an idea. Ralph
Not on, near… Which is more important? Our Bill of Rights, and our property rights - which are suppose to apply to ALL citizens … or getting some sort of vague ‘revenge’ upon a group that probably has no connection to the bunch of extremist murdering yahoos anyway? So maybe the next time some paranoid Christian Militia whack job like McVeigh, Weaver, Koresh, Jim Jones plans or does something horrific, should all all then go oppose building a church in the same neighborhood? That isn’t the ‘American’ way that I grew up with. It was not right to intern all those American citizens of Japanese descent during WWII on ‘general suspicions’, and this isn’t right either. IMO if we act xenophobic like this and toss our founding principles in the trash, then they’ve ‘won’ anyway, because we’ll have become no better than they are.
If we are at war with Al Queda, and other crazies, that’s one thing. If we are at war with an entire religion - comprising about 1/4 of the world’s population - that’s another. The first I whole heartedly support. The second I will vehemently stand against.
Here’s how I face the morning…
Doug:
With 2 burros, all that equipment, and the nearby railroad, you should be able to quickly develop and profit from your discoveries and claims.
I hope today is the day you make an ore discovery of legendary proportions!
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Ralph Berg said:
Freedom is not limited to those who agree with me. Anyone is free to propose an idea. Just as I am free to speak out against an idea. Ralph
Beautiful photo Ralph. Where is that ?
A man told his grandson: “A terrible fight is going on inside me – a fight between two wolves. One is evil, and represents hate, anger, arrogance, intolerance, and superiority . The other is good, and represents joy, peace, love, tolerance, understanding, humility, kindness, empathy, generosity, and compassion. This same fight is going on inside you, inside every other person too.”
The grandson then asked: “Which wolf will win?”
The old man replied simply: “The one you feed.”
Jon Radder said:
Ralph Berg said:
Freedom is not limited to those who agree with me. Anyone is free to propose an idea. Just as I am free to speak out against an idea. Ralph
Beautiful photo Ralph. Where is that ?
Thanks Jon. I took that picture Saturday at Chimney Rock State Park, a few minutes from here. Ralph
The argument against the mosque near ground zero seems to be that because some muslims are violent terrorists, ALL muslims are violent terrorisits.
I seem to recall a well known large scale modeler, Warren Mumpower, who was directing an international child pornography ring. He’s now in jail. Does that mean there should be no large scale trains allowed within a mile of any place with kids?
How far away would you allow the mosque? Because freedom of religion is one of our central rights, there is no constitutional way to prevent people from building a house of religious worship. 1/2 mile? 5 miles?no mosques ever, anywhere?
Mike has the correct logic here, the Oklahoma City bombing was done by a radical christian anti government racist , does that mean ALL christians are radical anti government racists? Of course it doesnt, same with the Mosque, and from what I understand its not ON ground zero, its NEAR ground zero, a couple blocks away.
And keep in mind, THERE WERE MANY MUSLIMS WORKING IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WHO ALSO DIED. I have to admit I get really flabbergasted when I read the stuff I recently read online (not here) that makes it sound like only christians died on 9-11, its such a narrow bloody-minded viewpoint, over 3000 people died, there were christians, jews, buddhist, hindi and muslims, all religions suffered that day, and some of these so-called christians who seam to have forgotten what christianity was all about. What ever happened to Christ’s doctrine of forgivness? Unbelievable.
Yesterday 00:35:10 MST Reply | Quote
What really rots my shorts, is what is happening at "Ground Zero, with this Mosk thingy being built there…does no American care ?
None of the major media seem to even have a thought about it…I for one think it is a stab in the back of every victim of the disaster in NY City…
Do New Yorkers, or Americans not care ?
Or is the whole story a farce and is not true ?
Where do we go to find out the truth of what is being built on the site of the first real threat to the freedom of all citizens of North America ?
I know…yes this is a Model Railroad web page, but our freedoms are at stake, and I care…does anyone else ?
Last edited by Fred Mills (Yesterday 00:36:44 MST)
Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don’t know what you are talking about.
Fred Mills
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Yesterday 02:50:59 MST Reply | Quote
Is everyone in North America so hung up on Political Corectness, that the media and citizens of America…no…NORTH AMERICA, won’t stand up and say NO WAY…Ground Zero is not a place for ANY Religious Extremous gang of thugs to make a statement…?
OK…I’ve said my piece…I’ll shut up…It’s you Americans, that have to stand up and say NO WAY…do you have the guts to do it ?..I’ll sit back and watch…
Fr.Fred
Monday, July 26,2010
Dear Mr. Fred Mills:
The American President has gone to great lengths to stress that the Allies are at war with terrorists, NOT Muslims.
Canada is envied around the world as to how our society has welcomed immigrants from all ethnic and religeous backgrounds to live in harmony.
Canada has wing nuts from ALL religeous faiths whom are dealt with through our criminal system.
Canadian society does not need your public comments of intolerance.
Am I to fear the local Mosk? Am I to fear Muslims riding the bus? I only fear you!
Canadian soldiers with young families back home are presently being horrifically wounded or completely blown up in the service of Canada as they try to bring similar harmony to Afganistan. Don’t disrespect their sacrifice.
My Father was horribly wounded in Germany while killing German Nazis. My Father did not enjoy killing Germans and he witnessed horrors that no one should have had to witness.
I don’t need to read your Nazi like comments of intolerance.
Whom else should Americans fear? Jews? Negros? Homosexuals?
How would a young Muslim model railroader feel after reading your rant?
Possibly a Canadian Muslim will file a complaint against you through the Canadian Human Rights
Commission.
I have wondered as to what would be a fitting memorial to the Canadian and American dead at ground zero.
I would say that a grouping of the World’s major faiths’ religeous places of worship would best reflect
mankinds’ endless struggle for World Peace.
Norman Bourgault
Norman Bourgault wrote:
"5) I have wondered as to what would be a fitting memorial to the Canadian and American dead at ground zero.
I would say that a grouping of the World’s major faiths’ religeous places of worship would best reflect
mankinds’ endless struggle for World Peace.
Norman Bourgault" (end quote)
I think a fitting tribute to our troops in the middle east, both past and present, would be to immediately pull the plug on these two wars, declare victory and bring everyone home. Our foreign policy of military intervention doesn’t seem to be working any better now than it has since Korea.
My following comments apply only to our “war on terror” (the Afghanistan and Iraq war zones). Middle-east stability, control of energy resources, nuclear proliferation, etc are an entirely different discussion.
Who are our mortal enemies? Al-Qaida and the Taliban. Those two groups represent less than 20,000 active members (that number is arbitrary because we really don’t know how large or small they are). We should start to fight terror with terror. We’re using a Howitzer where we should be using a scalpel. Give the CIA, FBI, NSA, MI5, etc adequate funding and have them individually sniff out and snuff out any and all of these folks one or two at a time. Also make it very, very painful financially (frozen assets, closed markets, lack of credit, etc) for individuals, organizations or even governments that fund the terrorist groups. This should be done covertly even though the world would know that it’s being done by us. This could be funded for a very small percentage of what it’s currently costing us to keep 200,000 troops halfway around the world. And this would target only the bad guys instead of blowing up thousands of innocent civilians. And lastly, we should try to honestly address some of the complaints these people have against the West that has them so pis _ed off at us.
Since I got bit on the neck by one of my girl cousins at age four or five, I just don’t see myself in ANY mirror.
Am I thread drifting here, guys? If so, just put me back in my box.
tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund
Terry A de C Foley said:
Since I got bit on the neck by one of my girl cousins at age four or fivetac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund
I guess having a very ‘sheltered’ childhood, regulated by Nanny I was spared the horrors of little girls.
Feisal Abdul Rauf, the Imam behind the “Cordoba Initiative” has been involved with the Islamic Society of North America and the International Institute of Islamic Thought, organizations linked to both the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. In fact, both groups have been demonstrated by the Justice Department to be
unindicted co-conspirators in a crucial terrorism-financing case involving the channeling of tens of millions of dollars to Hamas through an outfit called the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development. For the last 15 years, Hamas has been a designated terrorist organization under U.S. law. …
The Ground Zero project to erect a monument to sharia overlooking the crater where the World Trade Center once stood, and where thousands were slaughtered, is not a test of America’s commitment to religious liberty. America already has thousands of mosques and Islamic centers, including scores in the New York area – though Islam does not allow non-Muslims even to enter its crown-jewel cities of Mecca and Medina, much less to build churches or synagogues.
Islam is not merely a religion, and spiritual elements are just a small part of its doctrine. In truth, Islam is a comprehensive political, social, and economic system with its own authoritarian legal framework, sharia, which aspires to govern all aspects of life. This framework rejects core tenets of American constitutional republicanism: for example, individual liberty, freedom of conscience, freedom to govern ourselves irrespective of any theocratic code, equality of men and women, equality of Muslims and non-Muslims, and economic liberty, including the uses of private property (in Islam, owners hold property only as a custodians for the umma, the universal Muslim nation, and are beholden to the Islamic state regarding its use). Sharia prohibits the preaching of creeds other than Islam, the renunciation of Islam, any actions that divide the umma, and homosexuality. Its penalties are draconian, including savagely executed death sentences for apostates, homosexuals, and adulterers.
The Ground Zero project is a test of America’s resolve to face down a civilizational jihad that aims, in the words of its leaders, to destroy us from within.
HEY! This is a train site, enough about food, I’m getting Hungary [sic].
What HE said.
tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund
Build an outdoor layout at the ground zero mosque proposed site. Invite all large-scalers to the site for a huge messy pig-roast.
Ken Brunt said:Linked how, and by who? "linked with" is a very broad claim. What's the nature of the link?
Feisal Abdul Rauf, the Imam behind the “Cordoba Initiative” has been involved with the Islamic Society of North America and the International Institute of Islamic Thought, organizations linked to both the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas.
Is it this kind of a link? The first paragraph below is from the Weekly standard, The second Paragraph is a comment on what was written.
"For example: Rauf’s wife, who often speaks in support of the project and during one talk reflected proudly on her Islamic heritage, “failed to mention another feature of her background: She is the niece of Dr. Farooq Khan, formerly a leader of the Westbury Mosque on Long Island, which is a center for Islamic radicals and links on its Web site to the paramilitary Islamic Circle of North America (I.C.N.A.), the front on American soil for the Pakistani jihadist Jamaat e-Islami.”
Got that? Rauf’s wife has an uncle who used to be “a leader” of a mosque that now has a Web site that links to the Web site of an allegedly radical organization."
Is it that kind of a link? Because if you are going to tell me that I have to violate the Constitution’s assurance of freedom of religion, I want to know why in real terms. Not just “has been linked” I can “link” you to Fidel Castro if you smoke cigars.
As to Islam being a total system, that is surely true of Christians who homeschool their kids, read the Bible as a source of info on morality and law, insist on the ten commandments being placed in courthouses and public buildings, etc. As a non-religious person, I respect freedom of religion but generally find religious people kind of scary. Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and some forms of extremely conservative christianity preach that women are not equal to men. I don’t agree with that, but I have to respect the right to hold the opinion.
I apologize for getting too political–I’ll back out of this thread