“All I saw was video clips of foreign Muslims celebrating and dancing in the street…”
Makes for much more entertaining TV than some Muslim reading a statement condemning the terrorist act.
Ralph
So, Ralph,
Where do you find such clips?
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Joe Satnik said:
So, Ralph,Where do you find such clips?
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Over the years I have seen many Muslims denounce the violence. Where would I find them? I couldn’t tell you, because I can’t remember their names.
I don’t deny there were Muslims celebrating. It does make for better TV.
Just because we are shown “celebrating” by the media, does not mean all Muslims were celebrating.
Just as “protesters” here in the US do not speak for all of us. But they sure get the “airtime”.
Ralph
Ralph Berg said:More apologies, I meant 'Mexicans illegally in the USA, since I'm sure there are some 'nice Mexicans'. Here in UK the Law is VERY strictly observed - there are absolutely NO non-jews involved in kosher food preparation of any kind, as indeed, it should be. Deuteronomy is quite clear on the matter - it does not mention anybody who is NOT a Child of Israel. If G*d had wanted non-Jews to officiate in kosher food preparation, He would probably have mentioned it to Moses, saying something along the lines of
Speaking for myself....I didn't think of it as preaching. It was educational as far as the process. Now, the "let alone a Mexican" comment was a bit condescending. Pardon my ignorance, but is it required all meals be Kosher? Ralph
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Let THE food of thy sustenance BE prepared in accordance with MY Law, even so that the servants wereof shall come not from the Children of Israel, but from Mexico, YEA, even Somalia and Botswana in their travails.
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For HAVE I not spoken unto thee, EVEN on the MOUNT of Sinai, that there must BE great WASHING of the hands, before and AFTER, that the blight of the tripes shall not inflict THEE and the fruit of THY loins, all the days of THY life’.
Basically, if you live a religious Jewish life-style in full accord with the Law, then everything you eat must be kosher.
Personally, with a half-Irish Jewish mother and an Irish father, and a not a lot of money, it was impossible to live like that, especially going over to the rest of the Irish family where they tended, in those days, to live on great plies of floury potatoes and hairy bacon. 
Of course, when I went on aliyah to Israel, I lived in a pretty orthodox kibbutz and grew to love aubergines that had been ritually slaughtered…
tac
Terry A de C Foley said:Ralph Berg said:More apologies, I meant 'Mexicans illegally in the USA, since I'm sure there are some 'nice Mexicans'. Here in UK the Law is VERY strictly observed - there are absolutely NO non-jews involved in kosher food preparation of any kind, as indeed, it should be. Deuteronomy is quite clear on the matter - it does not mention anybody who is NOT a Child of Israel. If G*d had wanted non-Jews to officiate in kosher food preparation, He would probably have mentioned it to Moses, saying something along the lines of
Speaking for myself....I didn't think of it as preaching. It was educational as far as the process. Now, the "let alone a Mexican" comment was a bit condescending. Pardon my ignorance, but is it required all meals be Kosher? Ralph
Let THE food of thy sustenance BE prepared in accordance with MY Law, even so that the servants wereof shall come not from the Children of Israel, but from Mexico, YEA, even Somalia and Botswana in their travails.
For HAVE I not spoken unto thee, EVEN on the MOUNT of Sinai, that there must BE great WASHING of the hands, before and AFTER, that the blight of the tripes shall not inflict THEE and the fruit of THY loins, all the days of THY life’.
Basically, if you live a religious Jewish life-style in full accord with the Law, then everything you eat must be kosher.
Personally, with a half-Irish Jewish mother and an Irish father, and a not a lot of money, it was impossible to live like that, especially going over to the rest of the Irish family where they tended, in those days, to live on great plies of floury potatoes and hairy bacon.
Of course, when I went on aliyah to Israel, I lived in a pretty orthodox kibbutz and grew to love aubergines that had been ritually slaughtered…
tac
I am correct to assume you do not live the religious Jewish life style? If it is none of my business feel free to tell me so. I am just curious.
It seems it would be very difficult to travel as a Jew in full accord with the law.
Ralph
One of the greatest things I’ve found about Jewish co-workers over the years has been their sense of a special, personal relationship with their G*d. This is reflected in their sense of humour. For example:
Four rabbis are having an argument about an obscure point of the Law. Three of them agree on an interpretation, leaving Rabbi Goldberg the sole voice in dissent.
Goldberg cries to the heavens, “L**d, send these fools a sign that I am right and they are wrong!”
A deep, booming voice speaks from the clouds: “GOLDBERG IS RIGHT!”
The other three look at each other and shrug their shoulders.
“OK, three to two!”
Regarding Ric Golding’s reference to Islam as a sick religion, I want to make it clear I have no problem with GOD BLESS AMERICA. I don’t have a problem with GOD BLESS IRAN, GOD BLESS IRAQ or GOD BLESS PAKISTAN, either.
My Christian religion teaches the God of Love is the God of All. The corollary is that Americans don’t have a monopoly on His love, and non-Americans aren’t required to think the US is wonderful or agree with all aspects of its foreign policy as a pre-condition for it. God is not a Yank!
If some of you disagree with that point of view, it’s not cause for me to call your religion (or lack of same) “sick”. What IS sick is the trivialisation of Islam to some sort of homogeneous world-wide anti-American terrorist organisation. If you feel the need for evidence that Muslim leaders have condemned terrorist activities, try http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php.
I know there are screwball Muslim clerics out there, just as there are Christian clerics of various persuasions with deviant sexual proclivities. Do we condemn the lot because of the misdeeds of a few? I think not.
The problem with Islam is that their actions speak a lot louder than their words. And the few that do condemn these actions don’t do a very convincing job of it. What little condemnation I’ve heard sounds more like some pitiful excuse for the whole thing. If they want to convince the world that their serious about their condemnations, why not help out and turn some of these terrorists into the authorities instead of giving them sanctuary and support.
BTW Dave, the link doesn’t work…at least for me.
Ken Brunt said:My bad - it's the period at the end that mucks it up. Try this:
BTW Dave, the link doesn't work......at least for me.
Dave Healy said:Ken Brunt said:My bad - it's the period at the end that mucks it up. Try this:
BTW Dave, the link doesn't work......at least for me.
Thank you Dave,
I’m happy somebody jumped in here to cover my back!
I think some do not realize how dangerous it is to speak out if you are in some of the Middle East countries. This is where the terrorists are waging their campaign.
The reports are not as frequent, but how many times have the terrorists gone into villages and killed every male because they were either supporting the Iraqi government or the US troops?
It still happens in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.
I think that those who kill in the name of their GOD have perverted their religion to conform to their own twisted ideology. It is not a reflection of the religion, but of the men.
Ralph
Ralph,
With the greatest respect, it is not just their God.
It is your God too. Assuming you believe in God that is.
Muslims, Christians and Jews say there is but one God.
Therefore by definition that God must be the same for all religions that believe in one God.
It would seem to me that if they wanted a little more sympathy, they’d do a lot more to stop it. Pakistan, at the moment and after much cajoling by the American gov’t, seems to be doing something. Just how much is open to debate. But if, as you say, they consider this terrorism such a bad thing, why are they so afraid of their muslim populations rebeling against their gov’ts intervention in rounding up this so-called lunatic fringe.They’re all quick to call for a “jihad” against this, that, and the other thing, why not call one against the terrorists? The rest of the Arab world and the Muslim community just sit by and do nothing. These terrorist organizations exist among their populations, they gather their cadres among this same population, they get their support from these populations, so any cries of condemnation fall flat on their face. If the majority condemn it, why is it so dangerous to speak out?
Ken Brunt said:How willing would you be to speak out against our government if you knew the chances were good they would come in the night and kill you? Iraqi government officials have been assassinated. Men snatched from their homes at night. They live in fear for good reason. If we were having this discussion in Iraq or Afghanistan, both our lives would be in danger. Ralph
It would seem to me that if they wanted a little more sympathy, they'd do a lot more to stop it. Pakistan, at the moment and after much cajoling by the American gov't, seems to be doing something. Just how much is open to debate. But if, as you say, they consider this terrorism such a bad thing, why are they so afraid of their muslim populations rebeling against their gov'ts intervention in rounding up this so-called lunatic fringe.They're all quick to call for a "jihad" against this, that, and the other thing, why not call one against the terrorists? The rest of the Arab world and the Muslim community just sit by and do nothing. These terrorist organizations exist among their populations, they gather their cadres among this same population, they get their support from these populations, so any cries of condemnation fall flat on their face. If the majority condemn it, why is it so dangerous to speak out?
My point exactly.
Ralph,
All you got to worry about are “Black Helicopters”. 
TonyWalsham said:
Ralph, With the greatest respect, it is not just their God.It is your God too. Assuming you believe in God that is.
Muslims, Christians and Jews say there is but one God.
Therefore by definition that God must be the same for all religions that believe in one God.
Tony,
All three say there is one God. I think most religions also acknowledge that there are false gods and false prophets.
As for what I said about killing in the name of God, I apply that to all religions, not just Islam.
Ralph
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Ralph,All you got to worry about are “Black Helicopters”.
Not to say this would be totally out of the realm of possibilities if one had information that was dangerous enough. But alas, I would have to undergo a large rise in stature to even be the equivalent of a “piss ant”.
Ralph
Ken Brunt said:Ken, the current leaders of Iran aren't out for sympathy. They're out for the elimination of Israel first, the US second - better yet, knock off the two together. They'll do whatever they have to do, including sacrificing as many of their own peoples' lives as necessary, to achieve their goals.
It would seem to me that if they wanted a little more sympathy, they'd do a lot more to stop it.
These individuals happen to be Islamic. What makes them dangerous is less their religious affiliation than the fact they’re FANATICS. They are oblivious to reason. Most Muslims are not cut from the same cloth.
I have a problem with fanatics of ANY sort - religious (and that’s any religion, including my own), political, military, environmental, you name it.
The greatest feature of the US Constitution may be the First Amendment injunction that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” That’s been interpreted to mean Americans can believe what they like, but no other American has to pay for it.
However, the First Amendment is not a license for religious fanatics to do what they will. If a person’s religious beliefs countenance extreme actions (e.g., bombing skyscrapers), those actions are punishable under law. Americans can’t use their religious beliefs to justify harming their neighbours.
It’s just as well the rulers of Iran don’t want my sympathy. They’d have a long wait ahead of them, but not because they’re Islamic.
Keep in mind Muslims did not blow up Oklahoma City, that was blown up by some rightwing f***head christian fundamentalist trying to ferment a race war. Religion is like Fruitcake, full of nuts.
If things are so bad here in California, why are all these idiots from the rest of the country still trying to pile into the state?
Cheech and Chong made regular jokes about illegal immigration back in the 70’s. In “Up in Smoke” Cheechs house gets raided by ‘La Migra’ Chong panics but Cheech tells him dont worry, his cousin is getting married in TJ and his relatives called La Migra on themselves so they’d get a free bus ride to Mexico. Sure enough the next seen is the family being packed in a Migra bus, all wearing Tuxedos and fancy dresses carrying wedding presents, “They even give us lunch” he says.
Funny I’ve NEVER seen this in the LA Times…It would surely have raised a local fuss if they did publish something like this. The OP posted what to me as an obvious chain mail of very dubious factual background.
…a link to the original Times article from their website will be considered,
otherwise this is just more right-wing stone throwing as far as I’m concerned. Immigration of peoples here going back and forth across the border here in the southwestern states has always been a matter of fact here for decades, going back to the 19th century, its never really been a huge issue until these same illegals started showing up in Red State places like Indiana and South Carolina, funny how after decades of enjoying the benifits of this cheap second class labor pool only after 9-11 did some people start getting bent all out of shape about it. BTW, most illegals today are NOT from Mexico, they are from Central America and have to journey thru Mexico to the US where they are often robbed beaten raped and murdered by not just criminals but often by officals like the police.
If you want to bitch about illegal immigration, DONT BLAME THE IMMIGRANTS, they are only FOLLOWING the jobs, if someone wasnt hiring them, they wouldnt be writing back to other family members spreading the word telling there there was plentiful work here, and if no one was hiring them, others wouldnt risk thier lives for the journey.
If you want to blame someone, BLAME THOSE THAT ACTIVELY HIRE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE TO F***ING CHEAP TO PAY FULL WAGES AND BENEFITS.
Thats means all those big a$$ corporations like Tyson Chicken, that them Republicans in them now-immigrant full red states, that love to get big fat lobbyist checks stuffed into there reelection campaigns, they scream bloody hell about illegal immigration but when it comes to putting there wallet where there mouth is, they would rather stuff that mouth with more dollars from lobbyist who benefit from this second class labor pool, and pay our Fearless Leaders to look the other way.
Bunch of hypocrites to me. Talk one way but then act another.
Victor Smith said:
.................Thats means all those big a$$ corporations like Tyson Chicken, that them Republicans in them now-immigrant full red states, that love to get big fat lobbyist checks stuffed into there reelection campaigns, they scream bloody hell about illegal immigration but when it comes to putting there wallet where there mouth is, they would rather stuff that mouth with more dollars from lobbyist who benefit from this second class labor pool, and pay our Fearless Leaders to look the other way.
Bunch of hypocrites to me. Talk one way but then act another.
Right on!
And then they eat all that foul chicken, too!
<<If you want to blame someone, BLAME THOSE THAT ACTIVELY HIRE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE TO F***ING CHEAP TO PAY FULL WAGES AND BENEFITS. >>
The minimum wage in Wash St. is $8.00 + an hr.
Out in the apple and farmland of central Washington, all that pick fruit and such are aliens, particularly Latinos.
In the cities and towns of this farming belt are hundreds of white teens, and white unemployed and white welfare cases too F***king lazy to pick. It is beneath them.
Stop the unemployment and welfare checks, they might harvest, but I bet not.
j