We sure do do things differently, like demonstrating against the arrests of criminals. Then again, in the US you can put any label you want on food as long as you can get away with it.
Dave Healy said:Ric Golding said:I read this, then I look below and see an animated American flag with GOD BLESS THE USA beneath it.
If the Hispanics that are citizens of the USA or are here working legally support the rights of the illegals, then they should suffer the harassment of being treated like an illegal person in this Country. Same thing with the Muslims that put their sick religion over citzenship.You’re telling other folks THEIR religion is sick?!!
Pretty much! If you don’t believe in GOD, you’ll believe in anything.
I was under the impression that Muslims believed in the same God as Christians and Jews.
Ric Golding said:Dave Healy said:Ric Golding said:I read this, then I look below and see an animated American flag with GOD BLESS THE USA beneath it.
If the Hispanics that are citizens of the USA or are here working legally support the rights of the illegals, then they should suffer the harassment of being treated like an illegal person in this Country. Same thing with the Muslims that put their sick religion over citzenship.You’re telling other folks THEIR religion is sick?!!
Pretty much! If you don’t believe in GOD, you’ll believe in anything.
All religions have their God.
All religions have their radicals.
No religion advocates blowing up innocent people.
The Taliban is about as representative of Muslims as the KKK is representative of Christians.
Ralph
Hamas=muslim
Hezbollah=muslim
Al-Quaida=muslim
Al-Jezeera=muslim
Seems muslims have more than their fair share of radicals…
Nihad Awad, executive director of CAIR protested, “We have to isolate these individuals because there is nothing in the Koran or the Islamic faith that encourages people to be cruel or to be vicious or to be criminal. Muslims world wide know that for sure.” In light of this objection, we are left to ponder why every Islamic leader in the U.S., and the world, does not publicly condemn every terror action being undertaken in the name of the god of Islam. Their silence is deafening…
Ken Brunt said:
Hamas=muslim Hezbollah=muslim Al-Quaida=muslim Al-Jezeera=muslim Seems muslims have more than their fair share of radicals.............Nihad Awad, executive director of CAIR protested, “We have to isolate these individuals because there is nothing in the Koran or the Islamic faith that encourages people to be cruel or to be vicious or to be criminal. Muslims world wide know that for sure.” In light of this objection, we are left to ponder why every Islamic leader in the U.S., and the world, does not publicly condemn every terror action being undertaken in the name of the god of Islam. Their silence is deafening…
Many have condemned the terrorist acts.
Typical of how things are everywhere. The vocal minority is heard above the silent majority.
The numbers involved in all these groups combined is a VERY SMALL percentage of the Muslims worldwide.
Ralph
The only people I’ve heard condemn it are westerners and not really condemn it but make excuses for it…does Iran condemn it? or Syria? or Saudi Arabia? 0r Lebanon? or Egypt? or Pakistan for that matter?
even at 1% of the muslim population that’s a couple million “radicals”…
Ken Brunt said:
The only people I've heard condemn it are westerners and not really condemn it but make excuses for it.............does Iran condemn it? or Syria? or Saudi Arabia? 0r Lebanon? or Egypt? or Pakistan for that matter?even at 1% of the muslim population that’s a couple million “radicals”…
Yes, people of many of these nations have condemned it. But if some Cleric makes a speech condemning violence it is not “big news” that our media is scrambling to cover.
If you are living in the Middle East and speak out against these groups you are making yourself a target.
Many tribal leaders joined the US forces in Iraq to fight the insurgents. Several have been assassinated.
Ralph
So name me a cleric and the speech he made to condemn it. Name me one leader or cleric in any of those countries that have condemned it.
yea, many Iraqui tribals leaders now have joined forces with us. Many of them also fought against us or stood by when al-Qaiuda was among them.
I hear more condemnation of how we’re fighting terrorism than any condemnation of terrorism itself. And how come it is 'Big News" when some nitwit in the news media wants to condemn us?
TonyWalsham said:Tony,
I was under the impression that Muslims believed in the same God as Christians and Jews.
Have you read “Atheist Universe”? Just one of the books that puts the hokuspokus of religion in the right perspective. 
Ken Brunt said:
So name me a cleric and the speech he made to condemn it. Name me one leader or cleric in any of those countries that have condemned it.yea, many Iraqui tribals leaders now have joined forces with us. Many of them also fought against us or stood by when al-Qaiuda was among them.
I hear more condemnation of how we’re fighting terrorism than any condemnation of terrorism itself. And how come it is 'Big News" when some nitwit in the news media wants to condemn us?
Gee Ken,
You are getting like Mike. Wanting exact details. I have read several statements. I even saw one or two on TV. I didn’t take notes. Didn’t realize I would need them.
I don’t condemn an entire religion for the actions of some. Whether it be Muslims, Christians, Jews or Hindus. I know a few self proclaimed Christians that, in my opinion, are a waste of the oxygen they breath. Doesn’t make all Christians bad.
As for the media…mayhem always gets more coverage.
I do not have to be anti-Muslim to be against the terrorists.
I champion Muslims right to freedom of religion just as I champion my own right.
Ralph
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:TonyWalsham said:Tony,
I was under the impression that Muslims believed in the same God as Christians and Jews.Have you read “Atheist Universe”? Just one of the books that puts the hokuspokus of religion in the right perspective.
I also champion your rights whether you are Atheist or Agnostic.
Freedom of religion extends to freedom from religion if that is your belief.
Ralph
Ralph Berg said:Hans-Joerg Mueller said:TonyWalsham said:Tony,
I was under the impression that Muslims believed in the same God as Christians and Jews.Have you read “Atheist Universe”? Just one of the books that puts the hokuspokus of religion in the right perspective.
I also champion your rights whether you are Atheist or Agnostic.
Freedom of religion extends to freedom from religion if that is your belief.
Ralph
Ralph,
I appreciate that. I don’t mind your scale barbarianism either.
Terry A de C Foley said:
Guess, that like most things, you do things differently in the USA, including the interpretation of the Kosher rules with regard to food preparation, in spite of the active presence of the religious Orthodox Union [OU] and the secular Hebrew National Kosher food Group.The OU supervises many kosher foods. When the OU supervises kosher food, the OU sends a mashgiach (superviser) to the production facility to ensure that the product complies with halacha (Jewish law). The mashgiach supervises both the ingredients and the production process. Led by current CEO Menachem Genack, the OU is one of the largest and most widely recognized kosher supervision agencies in the world. As prescribed by Jewish law the staff of the meat preparation facility must be Jewish and the Shochet [the ritual slaughterman] must ‘be a pious Jew who obeys the commandments and respects the Law of the Talmud’.
I would not touch anything that was supposed to be Kosher that had been handled in any way by ANY non-Jew, let alone a Mexican, a citizen of a country not overly renowned for the beauty of its synagogues or the vast numbers of its Jewish citizens.
tac
TAC:
Thanks for the detailed and specific information on Kosher food and its processing.
In the case in Iowa, the media mentioned that there were “. . . Rabbis present in the plant,” but from what you wrote, I see that Kosher food processing requirements are much more complex than just having a Rabbi present.
One of the illegal Hispanic 15 year old workers told the investigators that one of the Rabbis beat him if he didn’t produce enough. I’m certain anything like this is also against the rules, and expected to see some of our U.S. Jewish Community leaders speak out in condemnation of this company, its actions, and especially its owners. Nothing seen yet.
I think this factory, where they employed ~400 illegal aliens is a disgrace to the U.S. and certainly shows a total disdain for federal law. Companies that employ illegals are usually paying in cash, don’t collect income and other taxes and of course can seriously mistreat the workers as these illegal workers really have no place to complain. Unfortunately, there is a small segment of our U.S. business community who appear to think this is just fine.
While being in the U.S. without papers is an illegal act and I don’t condone overlooking that for anyone, the company, owners, managers and others involved who run these sweat shops are just as guilty. If jobs weren’t available for these folks, it would be nowhere near as attractive to come here.
If the U.S. needs this labor source (that is debatable), then say so and make a guest worker program. Then at least the various employment taxes the rest of us pay would be collected, and the workers would have the job and safety protections that legal U.S. residents enjoy.
The current problem is the political pandering aspect where where the proposal to do the above starts with rewarding the 10 to 15 million illegal aliens who are already here with a kind of superior status (amnesty) over the folks who are trying to come here legally. We have already had a couple of rounds of amnesty and the results were that millions more illegals poured into the country. That obviously doesn’t work . . .
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Jerry,
“While being in the U.S. without papers is an illegal act and I don’t condone overlooking that for anyone, the company, owners, managers and others involved who run these sweat shops are just as guilty.”
They are not “just as guilty”. They are where the burden of guilt falls.
I can’t fault a person for taking a job and working to feed his family.
If I had to choose between being unable to provide for my family or taking an “illegal” job…I doubt I would be righteous enough to let my family go hungry.
“If jobs weren’t available for these folks, it would be nowhere near as attractive to come”
This is what it boils down to and where the responsibility falls.
Ralph
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Ralph Berg said:Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Tony,Have you read “Atheist Universe”? Just one of the books that puts the hokuspokus of religion in the right perspective.
I also champion your rights whether you are Atheist or Agnostic.
Freedom of religion extends to freedom from religion if that is your belief.
Ralph
Ralph,I appreciate that. I don’t mind your scale barbarianism either.
To protect my freedom I have to respect your freedom.
Ralph
Ralph,
I can’t disagree with you. It is the company’s fault. I manage a facility with 15 employees. 7 full time and 8 part time high school and college kids. I have to have an I-9 immigration form on everyone, including myself. I am the only person not born in this county or the one immeditely east of us, let alone this state. This task to make sure everyone is legal is totally my responsibility. My investors and my General Partner would terminate me immediately if I did not do this properly. Payroll is tough, budgets can be tight, but why would you hire employees that were not totally legal. That is a major portion of the job. If I was told to look the other way or not do the follow up, I would be liable. I don’t care how nice the job is, would you risk jail time or job loss to falsify the books or not pay payroll, real estate or income taxes? Why not just rob a bank? Its about the same. It would seem time off without pay would be the result of any of this and that is why I have a job.
Jerry Bowers said:Jerry and the rest of the forum - apologies if I seemed to be preaching, that was not meant, I assure you.
TAC: Thanks for the detailed and specific information on Kosher food and its processing. Jerry
My head is now lowered.
tac
Terry A de C Foley said:Jerry Bowers said:Jerry and the rest of the forum - apologies if I seemed to be preaching, that was not meant, I assure you.
TAC: Thanks for the detailed and specific information on Kosher food and its processing. JerryMy head is now lowered.
tac
Speaking for myself…I didn’t think of it as preaching. It was educational as far as the process. Now, the “let alone a Mexican” comment was a bit condescending.
Pardon my ignorance, but is it required all meals be Kosher?
Ralph
Ken Brunt wrote:
“…we are left to ponder why every Islamic leader in the U.S., and the world, does not publicly condemn every terror action being undertaken in the name of the god of Islam. Their silence is deafening…”
I just remember in the days after 9/11 thinking "Where are the U.S. Muslim leaders?.. Why are they not apologizing or condemning the radicals?..with 3000+ deaths and many (#?) injuries, why are they not lined up giving blood at the local blood bank?
All I saw was video clips of foreign Muslims celebrating and dancing in the street…
The standing joke is: Yetti, Bigfoot, Nessie, Moderate Muslim.
If there are any moderates, I can only guess that they are quickly intimidated and silenced by the radicals.
The only other explanation is that they secretly approve and support the radicals doing their dirty work for them.
The Imams’ leadership and activities are the key to all this. My guess is that they are not busy planning the mosque’s next “Ice Cream Social”.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik