Large Scale Central

Help save LGB!

thinking about this, Mike, I wasn’t saying you said anything.
For the record, and I repeat, I have far more lgb than I want or need, can’t get parts for some, last operating session we had two locomotive failures, both lgb, fixed both with glue and screws.

I have determined, for myself, that I have no desire to purchase any more.
One hates to say “ever”, but maybe so.
There are some others I won’t buy from, attitudinal disfunctionality on the part of said manufacturers caused me to determine zero products from said company will ever grace my shed tracks.

Do I limit myself?
No.

If I need something in 1:24, I find old Delton stuff any buy it (have a bunch so obtained).

In half-zero, I do buy stuff now.
All of it at least 50 years old, all of it runs just fine.

Funny part about the hoppers…
I had three new in the box here, you think I could find anyone who wanted them?

Ed DeVinney said:
All I know is, where can I buy any modern day tank cars and 3 bay cylindrical hoppers if LBG leaves the market nobody I know makes them,but LGB.

Ed


Ed,
I guess USA would be your next purchases. They have nice modern tanks and hoppers.
jb

My opinion on the whole LGB thing.
“Who cares?”

Yes, I own thirty or so locomotives, all but three are LGB.
Most are duplicates–2 forneys, 3 moguls, 3 mallets, 2 -III’s, 2 croks, etc, etc. etc.
If LGB goes away; Worse case scenario is I’ll use one for parts for the other.
So far in my 22 years of owning LGB, only 1 was sent to LGBoA for repair.
I have three boxes crammed full of LGB parts left over from repairing all the LGB for the local dealer.
My last purchase was an LGB mogul–SP–(made in China). Junk as far as LGB standards go.
Even the drivers are out-of-round. Already been thru 2 smoke units on the thing.
My first LGB purchase was a DSP&P Mogul in 1985. Still runs and smokes like brand new. Never been shopped.
So–if LGB wants to produce in Chinee–good for them!
If they want to go belly up, good too.
Who cares. Not me.
Life is too short.
jb

John,

I have one of the SP moguls. The loco was made in Nurnberg and the tender is from China.
There is a part (sound board) available through LGB’s repair department to fix the sound. They’ll fix it for free.
I fixed mine and it runs great. I weathered it a bit and it’s looks like a totally different engine!

Obfuscation , obfuscation .

If you genuinely support the hobby , do not knock it in public where potential investors can see it .

Both Dave and hans are unable to put up a cogent reply , so try to hijack and destroy .

It will not work , you are being silly if you think it will .

Support LGB , it is good stuff and has served the hobby well .

Mike

John I have 23 of Usa hoppers " 4 bay" and 8 LBG "3 bay"Need more “3bay” The Usa tank cars are alum.
and weight a lot more than LBG Plastic Of which I have 6 I run long trains and weight is a factor I have 3 Dash-8s and like to run unit trainsof around 50 Cars and all I am saying is the other companys won’t make what I want and LBG does O yea Usa makes some nifty 55’ box cars too.
Ed

It’s not likely that LGB products will go away even if the company itself dies on the vine. Delton, mentioned previously, died yet other companies still produce their products. The tooling and dies are too valuable to just be dumped in a junk yard just because the originator went South. Perhaps the new owners of that tooling will not have the percieved standards that the originator had but they will still live on. A good example is the plastic modeling industry. Kits from the 50’s and 60’s from companies no longer around are still being sold using the original tooling.

Gary Buchanan said:
It's not likely that LGB products will go away even if the company itself dies on the vine. Delton, mentioned previously, died yet other companies still produce their products. The tooling and dies are too valuable to just be dumped in a junk yard just because the originator went South. Perhaps the new owners of that tooling will not have the percieved standards that the originator had but they will still live on. A good example is the plastic modeling industry. Kits from the 50's and 60's from companies no longer around are still being sold using the original tooling.
Gary,

Exactly!

There have been several model railway mfgs that went “south” and then someone picked up the remnants and produced revamped merchandise that was superior to the original. LGB is not the be all and end all some people make it out to be.

As for US outline equipment, G45/LGBoA will continue…and continue to manufacture those products. While I don’t like to see any company go south, it isn’t the end of the world either. Companies come…companies go. That’s the way it goes in a capitalist society. I have my hopes in the whole situation but unfortunately I’m not the bankruptsy judge or administrator. What I want doesn’t count. What matters now, regardless of how much we like the decision or not, is how much the creditors get. THAT’S ALL…!! They don’t care about jobs. They don’t care about the LGB name. It’s the almighty dollar…or in this case euro. The final decisions will be made on those factors alone.

For my own wishes, I hope Kingsbridge doesn’t get LGB. I’m hoping like hell that LGBoA does. I think that under LGBoA there will be a closer watch on quality and a closer adherence to scale fidelity. All Kingsbridge will do is spruce it up with a quickie paint job and sell it to the highest offer…only to make a quick euro. I will say this…if LGBoA gets the company you can kiss the German jobs good bye. But that will happen with Kingsbridge too. Germany is in the process of finding out how the world economy works…USA style. It’s called turn all your factories into shopping malls. :frowning:

Warren Mumpower said:
.............................

I will say this…if LGBoA gets the company you can kiss the German jobs good bye. But that will happen with Kingsbridge too. Germany is in the process of finding out how the world economy works…USA style. It’s called turn all your factories into shopping malls. :frowning:


Warren,

While talking with one of my German friends yesterday he mentioned that he doesn’t get the super concern the City of Nürnberg and all the locals have.

I reminded him to read the Nürnberg papers to see how many jobs evaporated there in the recent past. Compared with some of the others both LGB and Märklin in Nürnberg are chump change.

Of course looking at it realistically, one could ask in the same breath: “If they’re concerned about the jobs and the prestige, where are the loan guarantees for EPL GmbH & Co KG run by Schöntag?”

Or is that just a quaint custom we engage in in the “Great White North”?

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Of course looking at it realistically, one could ask in the same breath: "If they're concerned about the jobs and the prestige, where are the loan guarantees for EPL GmbH & Co KG run by Schöntag?"
Maybe he should have aligned himself with a big bank with deep pockets.......
HJ said:
Of course looking at it realistically, one could ask in the same breath: "If they're concerned about the jobs and the prestige, where are the loan guarantees for EPL GmbH & Co KG run by Schöntag?"
Concern about jobs and prestige ends at the pocket book in the US. Not to be either pro or con for LGB on my part, this whole thing will resolve down to what deal will bring the most money to the creditors (banks). They don't give a hoot about LGB as a company. They don't give a hoot about the workers. They don't give a hoot whether or not we ever have another train to buy.

As for government bailout…which is typical for NA, LGB just isn’t big enough or have enough political clout to be worthy of a bailout. They didn’t kiss enough a** or sleep with the right politicians when they were a going company.

Concern about jobs and prestige ends at the pocket book in the US.

Good points, but Germany has a greater “Social” point of view

As for government bailout…which is typical for NA, LGB just isn’t big enough or have enough political clout to be worthy.

Most likely true. But when it comes to Wöhrl and their offer the story may be different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagmar_Wöhrl

I believe she currently chairs a business related committee

Jack

John Joseph Sauer said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Of course looking at it realistically, one could ask in the same breath: "If they're concerned about the jobs and the prestige, where are the loan guarantees for EPL GmbH & Co KG run by Schöntag?"
Maybe he should have aligned himself with a big bank with deep pockets.......
I believe he is in need of a set of friends that actually follow through on what they promise!

Sounds more like he didn’t have all of his ducks in a row when he entered into this venture-
nobody to blaim but himself!

John Joseph Sauer said:
Sounds more like he didn't have all of his ducks in a row when he entered into this venture- nobody to blaim but himself!
JJ

Since Schöntag hasn’t said who his “friends” and “prospective partners” are/were it is quite possible that he had his ducks in a row. Unless, of course, the insolvency trustee has neglected his duties in a major way??

Of course very cautious people like myself ask for promissory notes, irrevocable letters of credit or money up front. But that’s just my upbringing and life experience. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:
As I mentioned once; in 28 years of my own business there have only been Can$300 that I didn’t collect on. :slight_smile:

Yes, I’m very selective in my business dealings, both when selling or buying.

Jack Barton said:
Good points, but Germany has a greater "Social" point of view
I'm more willing to say that Germany [b]HAD[/b] a greater "Social" point of view. With the growing world market and competition within that market the money grubbers are changing their thinking. Capitalism breeds greed and greed throws ethics out the window. I'm sure that the workers are still holding to that "Social" point of view, but the banks and venture capitalists are not. Just as in the US, the big businesses will influence the German government, laws will be passed and unions and workers will loose power. The day is coming that the German worker will be as powerless over their jobs as American workers are today.

I realise this is an LGB-related thread. As I own no LGB locos or rolling stock, I have no worthwhile contribution to make on LBG-specific matters. General observations on design and production, however, are another matter, especially where the quality of Eastern production is concerned.

“Eastern” and “East”, in this context, refer to China, Taiwan and Singapore. Other countries may fit the descriptions that follow, but I only have experience with these three. For purposes of this post, please construe Japan as “West”.

For quite a few years, I’ve been responsible for making large purchases of computer equipment. I know a little bit about Eastern production methods and, more importantly, the people behind them. There are valid inferences to be drawn for model train production.

There is an issue with design and manufacture that we in the West need to get our heads around. In the past, the paradigm has generally been to design the product in the West and manufacture it in the East. Our experience is that if the West provides the East with a loose specification and lets the East design and manufacture the product, a better result is achieved.

If a spec is drawn too tightly, a single misunderstanding can have a ripple effect. Very bad things can happen when the East does not understand what a spec means, just what is literally written. Our experience is that designing a complex specification that is 100% perfect and interpretable in one way only to people who think in a different language is a daunting proposition.

There is good reason to be confident that most (not all) shops in the three countries mentioned above can design and produce top-quality gear. Given scope to display initiative, Eastern engineers are quite capable of coming up with elegant and innovative ideas. In the early 21st century, the East is not merely a source of cheap labour.

We feel that making a judgment about a piece of equipment based solely, or primarily, on its country of origin makes little sense from a business perspective. Many of my personal decisions are actuated by motives other than dollars and cents, but I don’t let that cloud my reasoning when it comes to making purchasing decisions. In that sphere, what’s best for the business is the only thing that matters.

Local support for products is bottom-line. We only buy if qualified technical support is available locally. By local, I mean “Perth”, not “Australia”. As this is not negotiable for us, it limits the range of suppliers we can use, something we are well able to live with.

With G scale trains, we don’t have local support. However, much of the fun of this hobby involves dirty hands, and having you blokes around to bounce eye deers off helps muchly.

I have a little experience with trains manufactured in the far east.
First rule, they consider up morons for wasting time and money on TOYS and not busy MAKING money.
Second rule, whether they designed it or not, if the manufacturer can save a penny a unit, and pocket the profits, they will do so every stinking time.

If putting in a designed lube port in a bulkhead to a captive motor bearing can be left out, it will.

If they can leave one expensive ingredient out of a plastics mix to save a penny, they will.
And nobody will know until the axles start eating into the chassis in 6 months.

If they can not tin wires properly to “strain relief” them (and I was a NASA-certifed solderer, so I know), and save a pennies worth of solder per unit, they will not.

If Dell computers are any example, I talked to someone once who worked for Dell, and quit when he saw the amount of returns.

They factor that into the costs.

Quality control in far east model train manufacture is virtually non-existent.
When you take ten 6-axle diesels and come up with 60 different wheel gauge readings, most of which are SO FAR out of spec they won’t go through properly gauged turnouts, you have a problem.

When Mabuchi motors are bought in quantities of 10,000 for $.23 (that’s twenty-three cents) apiece, they aren’t interested in a $30 Pittman.

The cheapest wire they can find, with the fewest strands, and sometimes to get the right “color” they actually paint the wire!

Even if you let “them” design it, or if you design it, they leave programming ports off the boards, or worse.

When the designer goes to the factory and starts at one end of the line and sets the screw guns to the proper setting, and moves to the next…by the time he gets done and checks the first one, the workers have re-set the unit.
Or, instead of walking across the floor to the supply room and drawing a bag of “virgin” plastic pellets, they worker uses a dustpan and 'scoops" up the scrap and dumps it in the hopper.

I make reports of fixes, and there is only so much I can mention, hoping like hell folks are smart enough to actually LOOK when they get into the unit.

The problem IS the consumer.
How often on forums do you read “Where can I get “X” the cheapest?”.

When price and price alone drives the market, quality takes a back seat.

I am reminded of one sound system, provided for a manufacturer for a “price”, and failure rate was over 90%.
Now they are using one of the lowest-price, non-polyphonic systems…all because the consumer wants “cheap”.

Manufacturers won’t get it made by a quality concern, because they try to sell to the cheap charlies.

Buy American.
That’s why my Flathead Fords are still running today, daily, older than ANY Dat-soon or Toyopet on the road.

I remember who made the Zero.
And, who gave our US Navy submarine propeller technology away.
And who designed the “People’s Car”.

I remember why we fought that particular war, and I am not a happy camper when folks fall all over themselves to buy that shXt.

If I could replace the drives on my Shays with Barry’s drives, I would.
The 4-6-0’s have all benn converted to US made chassis and Pittman motors.

Fortunately, I decided on “0” to buy only American, and all 12 locomotives and 130 pieces of rolling stock are.
Same with the 3-rail.
Same with all the Half-Zero I have, Mantua, Varney, English, Roundhouse, Megow, Penn Line…

Used it is, as even used, it out-performs most of the plastic crap coming out of the far east.

If you have a choice by American.

And I’ll never buy another Dell again.
I’ll build one for double the cost before I put any money towards that company.

Same with anything that I personally perceive as not honest, ethical, or forthright.

I can recall when it was required of union members to “buy American”. Now that they are gutless, look what we have. We now live in a cheap, throw-a-way society that will buy crap that’s designed to be outdated in 6 months.