Large Scale Central

General Malaise in Largescale

General Discussion
#41

Who is General Malaise? Is he Army or Air Force?

I can almost count on one hand the large scale stuff that I bought new off a dealer. A Hartland Mack, a pair of B’mann Indies (on clearance), a couple Piko buildings, a Lehmann Toytrain boxcar, an Aristo passenger set, some figures, and a couple 4 foot lengths of track… all the rest I got gently (or not so gently) used. Why? Price, gents, price. I’m NOT rich, not even close. AND I have R-1 curves, so most of the stuff they’re putting out these days wouldn’t run on my layout anyway.

#42

Join the Club Mik, the Loyal Fraternaty of the Might Tighty.

#43

My 2 cents worth…

In a perfect world, DCC will be controlled by radio, not through the track, at least in Large Scale. I think we are seeing a move in that direction with Airwire, and perhaps others that I am not familiar with. Tony’s advanced “garage door opener” will not be phased out, as many of us do not want to be bothered with water tank fill sounds, or the sound of coal tumbling into the tender. I really don’t care about coupler clank, either, as I’ve never heard it sound in real time on anyone’s system.

What I am interested in is start-up, throttle up and down, real-time whistle/horn, and idle. I would like to hear the sound of the advancing engine speed before the locomotive increases speed. I would like the sound card to detect the increased work of a grade and reflect that by an appropriate change in sound, and a similar change when the locomotive begins to coast downhill. Maybe, again maybe, a button for dynamic brakes, and one to butter the toast as it comes out of the toaster. :smiley: I think that all of this can now be done with Tony’s “advanced garage door opener” now. That is enough for me.

About half of my power is stored-waiting parts, as they wait for R/C-battery control. They will run on DC, but my layout is no longer reliable for straight DC.

In my train room are models of 1:22.5, 1:20.3, 1:24, 1:29, some LGB grain cars that are roughly 1:27, and I am scratching some log bunks that should work well in any scale.

My youngest daughter, who just graduated from Washington State University last Saturday, wants my O-Gauge stuff when I tire of them. Once she is married and settled down, I will “tire” of some of the stuff, and it will move into her home, along with a layout she helped build when she was 8 years old. My eldest grandson (16) has discovered girls and football, and has put away his trains, but still heads for my layout whenever he comes over. The next eldest grandson (4) is a certified train nut. The youngest grandson is less than two weeks old, but his eyes follow the train as it moves around the Christmas tree. The only grand-daughter (2) fights with her brother (4) to play with the extensive wooden Thomas set that he has.

If my family is representative of the future of our hobby, our hobby is in good shape.

I think that General Malaise is an old retired Air Force paper pusher. He (or she) is certainly not of the Naval Service. :lol:

#44
Quote:
... Tony said, "What I should point out is that many in the current LS fraternity do not want to and cannot get a grasp on technology. They like it simple and will still stay liking it simple unless the costs for the high tech stuff are reduced so much they have to change from the really simple to use stuff. For that matter, I will continue to cater for that "older" non tech market with my modified "garage door openers" Mr Polk considers old hat."

Absolutely hitting the nail dead square!
Sorry, Kevin, I can’t keep up with technology, and now I don’t want to.


That is every bit true. Each of us has our own comfort level when it comes to technology. TOC’s driveway is a perfect example of that. There will always be the “keep it simple” set in any group. My point is that as my generation ages, we’re going to be more comfortable with technology than most in the hobby now. The ability to keep things simple will not go away. You’ll still be able to pull a brand new locomotive out of the box, set it on the track connected to a 50-year-old MRC transformer, and make the train go. But those who do wish for a higher level of customization will find it easier and easier to do so as the technology develops. I also think that such ease of customization will ultimately be a draw for the hobby. We’re the generation who buys a phone based on how easy it is to add ringtones and change the pictures on the little display screens–things completely unrelated to the actual purpose of the phone.

Think of it this way… When LGB first started introducing sound in their locomotives, many people made their choices based solely on that single feature. Now, we have the technology to supply a locomotive with a choice of any number of different whistles, bells, chuffs, etc. I can run it with the factory default sound, or make it sound (if not look) truly individual if I want to. Why wouldn’t a manufacturer incorporate that technology into its trains, especially if it is the one single feature that puts it over the top of the competition?

Later,

K

#45

I have had to do things on the cheap. However, most of my track and switches were new. My locomotives are about 50/50.
About 75% of the rest of the rolling stock was new. Most all the new purchases were closeout or deeply discounted.
As for the big locos not selling…it holds true in my case. R1 curves keep me from buying anything large.
Recently the Aristo Doodlebugs were $89.95, free shipping on eBay. I had to pass =(
Ralph

#46

My 2c. I LOVE the DCC I have on my N scale stuff. MU between different kinds of locomotives is no problem, even with a single throttle, and the lack of block wiring makes Bob a happy guy.

But for LS, I’m an RC guy

#47

Gotta go with Bob…my On30 has DCC but outdoors, there’s just too much aggravation…

#48

Kevin,

You stated - “Why wouldn’t a manufacturer incorporate that technology into its trains, especially if it is the one single feature that puts it over the top of the competition?”

If it is something that a person is not going to use, like a dcc board, why would a person going to battery power/rc want to pay for it to be included in the pile of stuff to be removed? I believe, before the introduction of the “super socket”, the idea was floated for a terminal board with screw terminals, well labeled, so any optional equipment could be wired in. However, the propritary equipment suppliers have won and the rest of us sit back winding our watches and wondering if we want to throw away more parts to get something we will use.

I don’t know if competition is actually involved, unless it is for our wallets. Maybe the manufacturers need to institute a "buy back’ program of unused parts. :wink:

#49

Not a malaise, just diversification, Terry, you got it right. I got all the G stuff I want, built and bought and I watch it doing the round and round when its warm. This is what I am doing inside for the winter.

(http://www.smegworld.org.uk/spaf/n/nroom640.jpg)

(http://www.smegworld.org.uk/spaf/n/macs640.jpg)

#50

I can testify that outdoors, on brass track, QSI/airwire and track power works quite well. Not quite DCC level of tweakability, but more than I’ve managed to sit down and figure out

Rod those guitars are going to be a little hard to reach

#51

General Malaise:

(http://www.jbrr.com/Pics/FunStuff/GeneralMalaise.jpg)

#52

Isn’t that General Mayonnaise?

K

#53

I think Mike Omalley hit it on the head-
“But how many people post here regularly? Two dozen? How many post at MLS? Maybe 100, maybe 200?”

I always thought model RR’ing was the largest hobby in the US and would have a lot more activity on web forums. I’ve been kind of amazed at how few people frequent the sites and how light the activity is when I compare it to the sites I visit regularly for my other hobby, RC electric flying (a growing subset of RC aviation). There if you put a question, comment, picture, etc up there are responses within minutes.
I do think there are a lot of pretty cool things coming on the large scale market. I also think that one of the main hindering factors in large scale is not the locos, rolling stock or buildings but the cost of track. I was fortunate enough to pick up a bunch of aluminium code 250 rail about 12 years ago and that is what has enabled me to venture into large scale.
Ah heck enough rambling.
Dave

#54
Ralph Berg said:
Model trains, in all scales, have always been dominated by the "old" guys. It is not that the younger crowd isn't interested. It is just that people don't have the time, space and money to build a layout until they are more established in life, and no longer physically able to play the sports that occupies their time when they are younger. If the hobby is dieing, it has been doing so for over 40 years. Ralph
I have to agree with this. Im new in the hobby but i have been into trains since I was very young. Then I hit High School and got involved with sports and of course girls. After High School was college. That also ment no money. Then after College was getting a job and settling down. No time, money or room for trains. Plus I was into hiking and climbing. All these years I still set the trains up around the x-mas tree though. It was not until recently when my daughter was born. It got my intrest back. I needed something to do or for that matter something to keep me home more rather then hike, climb and ski everyday. The body needs rest. When I learned about G scale I thought it would be perfect. I can get back into trains, have a great hobby to share with my daughter and still be outdoors. Thats what got me started. I would have loved to have model layouts in my younger days but I had no place to do it, no confidence and no money. I think the internet really helps. Any problems I have I no longer have to figure it out myself (which ended up gettig me fustrated and quitting) ts amazing when the UPS guy stoppes by or the oil guy. The first thing they notice is the layout outside. The neighbors stop by for something and the next thing you know you have a crowed of people standing at you layout, talking and having a good ol time.

I also think you see less people in the hobby because of other distractions like the computers etc… It seems our youger generation is getting lazy. They dont want to have to work. They would rather have the latest cell phone (even if all they do is tex on them) or play the latest version of x box or whatever those are. It seems our younger generation is lifeless. of course Im part of that generation but somehow escaped it.

Price does not help as well. Then yet having higher prices helped me. It taught me to be more selective as well as taught me to start learning to build my own things. (our younger generation would rather buy it then make it-but cost keeps them from getting it) Its amazing how much I learned by trial and error. I may not ever be as talented as some but thats whats nice about a narrow gauge backwoods line. Nothing has to be perfect. Plus it makes my line unique. It is nice to have the large selections but then . everyones layout will look the same. I think Kevin mentioned this but he is right some of the best looking layouts were done on a tight budget or built from scratch. Im not into all the fancy high tec stuff. I like things simple plus simple means less expensive. I would rather spend my time outside hiking or watching the trains with my daughter then trying to figure out all that high tec stuff

This topic was very intresting to read especially for a new guy like me.

#55

Nice comments Shawn.

#56

Dave was right, it is the price of track that is holding back the growth of the hobby. You can buy reasonably priced starter sets, build tressels, buildings, ponds, landscape, and have great plans for a layout until you find out the price of track. I now have two Annies, a 2-4-2, and a Connie, about 150’ of track. But having been doing this for only about two years am considering getting out of the hobby after looking at the price of track to cover the tressels and yards I have already built.

Tom

#57

Tom,

You said - “But having been doing this for only about two years am considering getting out of the hobby after looking at the price of track to cover the tressels and yards I have already built.”

Are you trying to get the project done? The journey is the adventure. What are you going to do, if you complete it. Yes, track is expensive. Everything is expensive, including the beer you drink while watching the trains run. I’ve been working on this layout since 1996. The day it is done is the day it is over. If you can buy just 12 feet of track a year, you are still making progress. Relax, enjoy. There are a lot of people that would like to have two Annies, a 2-4-2 and a Connie. You can always find someone else’s layout to run on.

#58

Rick,
My point is that some of the replies have tended to put the precieved decline in the hobby on the loco manufacturers or the lack of new people to the hobby willing to put in the “sweat equity” necessary. I feel that the price of track is the biggest distractor to growing the hobby. Yes I’m trying to finish a project, but at 56 don’t want to wait till I’m 85 to finish it.
BTW, nothing gets done around my house without BEEERR. You’re always welcome to join me.
Tom

#59

Having a hobby I could do at home was a big factor for me in returning to trains and building the outdoor layout. My other hobby, rocket aerial photography, requires going out to the desert (or further). With Cris’ illness I can’t often do that. Haven’t yet had the opportunity to take the grandkids out there either, but we can run trains whenever they come to visit.

Also, I’m not getting any younger and eventually I won’t be able to traipse all over the desert tracking down rockets. So I needed to have another hobby I can turn to when that time comes.

Oh, and I agree that there’s a lot that can be done to reduce the cost just by doing kitbashing and scratch-building. Track will stll be a big expense but it can be spread out over time – you don’t have to buy it all at once. And it’s a one-time expense, meaning that it will last many, many years without needing replacement.

#60

Tim,

You’ve done it again! :smiley: :lol:

Tell you what, I model that mundane 1:22.5 stuff and some people get really upset when I point out that there seems to be quite a bit of 1:22.5 stuff advertised but not all that much being produced.
More upset when I come up with scale drawings of actual structures in 1:22.5, because they are not as tiny as that “1:22.5” stuff one can buy from the big guys.
The general malaise in LS is the tremendous hodge-podge of stuff that is being passed of as close enough.

It’s enough to drive one to scratch building and kitbashing. :stuck_out_tongue: :slight_smile: Just so one has that particular stuff that one “needs” for one’s operation.

PS since I also model an obscure railway, during an era that people don’t seem to remember all that well … I’ve got it made in the shade. It’s been like that right from the start on these shores. :wink: :slight_smile: Kind a neat!