Large Scale Central

General Malaise in Largescale

Track too expensive ???

Build a smaller layout…seriously

I think alot of newbies are convinced by most of the the layouts shown in GR that unless they have a 1000 feet of track they are not serious about garden railroading .

Shee-oot I started with an LGB Porter from a broken up starter set, a second hand LGB power pack and a box of R1s, total start up $70.

R1 track is still cheap relatively speaking, HLW Macks are only about $50 if you look around and HLW mini cars are less than $10 a pop so its not like there arent any low cost options to getting your hands dirty. when time and money allow, make the layout bigger , sell off the smaller stuff to help finance the larger stuff, and be patient and plan carefully, with both layout and fiscal expenditures.

But some are convinced that unless they “start” with 400 feet of track, 20’ diameters, a USA Husdon and a string of 8 heavyweights then it just isnt worth it, OK then so be it, but there are options for those who are determined. Just start thinking smaller.

Yes, track is expensive, but if the output from manufacturers is any guide, then track is the least of our worries. New releases from manufacturers are so commonplace that they hardly rate a mention these days. Accucraft release so many locomotives that for the most part hardly rate a mention in the forums. Are releases so frequent that we have become immune to the excitement that it should bring? At one time, just the hint of a new release would have us in awe, in anticipation, as we discussed the upcoming release. B’mann commenced a new policy of not announcing releases until basically in the stores (no doubt related to the Vulcan fiasco and the secrecy surrounding the infamous Blackstone Project). Aristo-Craft now have a similar policy. This non-disclosure takes away the excitement of an upcoming release. It is announced one day and a week later it is in the shops (just in time for Christmas). Are we simply Santa fodder?

As Vic says, we should start out small and expand as finances and available resources become available. This spreads the railroad development over a longer period and sustains the enthusiasm. One will learn that finishing the railroad empire is an anticlimax. One needs to forever modify and extend. I have been building for five years and while almost complete, I honestly do not want to really be finished with the road. I want to feel that there is always something new to be accomplished. One thing is certain and that is the railroad plan devised years ago, will not be the same as the finished product. We learn (by our mistakes) and so our railroad develops and grows and matures. Like real railroads, we incorporate change as our needs change.

My advice to a newcomer would be to pick a specific scale and a specific purpose for the railroad, a reason for its existence. Then justify every purchase made, as to rule out emotional purchases. This way one will avoid the traps that many make, leading to an unnecessarily high investment/expenditure in the hobby. It does not need to be expensive to be enjoyable. Involving the family is also a necessity, as one generally needs to justify (seek approval for) each purchase made. A new largescale purchase sticks out like a sore thumb, unlike purchases in smaller scales that can be disguised on the railroad. “New? No, that is not new, you just did not see it before”.

I have to agree with Ric. As long as I am physically able, my GRR will never be finished. The fun is in the planning, building and seeing your vision take shape.
As for the cost of track, one needs to patiently wait and seek out the deals. I haven’t checked recently, but just a couple months ago the Aristo aluminum R1 curves were still available for $52 a case.
The Aristo 4.5ft brass straights that Shawn bought are a good deal right now.
And there is always used track. I have gotten several good deals on eBay for used track.
You just have to shop carefully, and make some compromises.
Ralph

Tim Brien said:
..........

My advice to a newcomer would be to pick a specific scale and a specific purpose for the railroad, a reason for its existence. Then justify every purchase made, as to rule out emotional purchases. This way one will avoid the traps that many make, leading to an unnecessarily high investment/expenditure in the hobby. It does not need to be expensive to be enjoyable. Involving the family is also a necessity, as one generally needs to justify (seek approval for) each purchase made. A new largescale purchase sticks out like a sore thumb, unlike purchases in smaller scales that can be disguised on the railroad. “New? No, that is not new, you just did not see it before”.


Hear, hear!

Precisely what I have done since at least 1981, doesn’t matter which scale. I probably mentioned this before, be prepared for some gentle ribbing from the LHS owner after you mention “sorry doesn’t fit my railway”. :wink: :slight_smile:

Did I save money? No, I just shifted the focus of where it should go. :lol:

I buy what i can and when i can but i had to save and plead with the wife to let me get the bachman climax and it was used , let alone get a brand now shay or even the new mallet(which I’d give my left nut for).Now the price of my rail has over doubled in price

Scooby,
Keep the personal body parts. Try to sell other people’s body parts if necessary, but never your own. Dude, you start down this path, you will eventually run out of parts.

Is this supposed to be a NEW phenomena? We have suspected for years that the bulk of potential buyers for LS is aging and not being replaced in numbers sufficient to maintain the hobby at its present levels. I would sure like to see demographics on large-scale model railroad product purchasers. But absent the cooperation of the major manufacturers we can only guess. Obviously the sheer amount space required for this endeavor is in itself enough to limit it as a hobby of great growth. In every major western nation of the world the demographics reveal an aging population. Just in replacement numbers alone, there is probably not much long-term growth to be found in the hobby. But beyond that, how many younger people really have a strong sentimental connection with trains? I suspect not many at all. And, of course, there is the relatively high cost of this hobby, plus the large amount of time and raw physical work required of those of us who build these things whether inside or outdoors. But these are all aspects of the hobby we have known for some time.

So I suppose what we are really discussing here is the ongoing interest of those already in the hobby or likely to enter as seen in their purchases. I have suspected for a long time that the market for LS has to be close to the saturation point. On the other hand I have never seen so many potential choices at a reasonable cost as I have in the last few years. I am not too concerned because I don’t see those purchasing options going away soon. I don’t see the manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue research and development of new models or related products either. Certainly there has been nothing out there to support the notion that all of a sudden our choices will become drastically limited–assuming, of course, our economy does not go into a total tailspin. I don’t really see that, either.

What I do see is that the members who post on these various LS forums are becoming increasingly more sophisticated about the many aspects of LS and thus are probably not approaching what new choices become available with the same level of enthusiasm as would have been the case a decade ago or even less. I see a LOT of highly talented modelers out there with layouts and rolling stock that are nothing short of astounding. Similarly I see descriptions of operations that are far more sophisticated than anything I could have conceived a few years ago. And the general tendency toward achieving the prototypical has only increased. Maybe too much so in that it can be intimidating to those just entering the hobby. But that is just a marker of a hobby that is now maturing. Apparently it is inevitable.

So perhaps we LS enthusiasts have become somewhat jaded about the hobby. Is that not to be expected? The term “malaise” is a little over the top. As I see it, our hobby is not hurting so much as it is maturing. That is not such a bad thing. Like any other aspect of the economy, ours is a product that still must be sold to the general public. Most have never even heard of it. As others have pointed out, this is an endeavor that dovetails well with gardening. Perhaps that is the best way to sell it.

I have never seen myself as one to promote the hobby. That is not my mission in life. But I surely love to show what I have off. People who never thought they would find an interest in railroads certainly find an interest in THIS one. And I am sure that is a story which repeats itself in many a garden railroad where the general public has some access. I myself never thought of myself as a railroader or a model-maker of any kind. Fifteen years ago had someone suggested I would get into GARDEN model railroading I would have never taken them seriously. But I did. And I did it WITHOUT the benefit of a local garden railroad club or ANY railroad club for that matter. And I did it without the benefit of any of these forums, none of which existed at the time. Nor did I have a substantial budget with which to work. I still don’t. In fact I am still not a railroader–not really. Nor am I much of a model-builder. I certainly have not done anything much in the way of rolling stock modification in all the years I have been involved in LS. I do build some structures, but am hardly an expert at that either. But I am definitely an LS enthusiast. Somehow I sold myself on it. If it can happen to me, way up here in the middle of Nowhere, Alaska, it most certainly can happen to anyone. General malaise? I think not. It is only self-limiting oneself and one’s hobby to suggest such things.

Although I’m always happy to see new products, I’d like to see some previous products re-released and/or updated.

Ron Simpson said:
Is this supposed to be a NEW phenomena? We have suspected for years that the bulk of potential buyers for LS is aging and not being replaced in numbers sufficient to maintain the hobby at its present levels. I would sure like to see demographics on large-scale model railroad product purchasers. But absent the cooperation of the major manufacturers we can only guess. Obviously the sheer amount space required for this endeavor is in itself enough to limit it as a hobby of great growth. In every major western nation of the world the demographics reveal an aging population. Just in replacement numbers alone, there is probably not much long-term growth to be found in the hobby. But beyond that, how many younger people really have a strong sentimental connection with trains? I suspect not many at all. And, of course, there is the relatively high cost of this hobby, plus the large amount of time and raw physical work required of those of us who build these things whether inside or outdoors. But these are all aspects of the hobby we have known for some time.

So I suppose what we are really discussing here is the ongoing interest of those already in the hobby or likely to enter as seen in their purchases. I have suspected for a long time that the market for LS has to be close to the saturation point. On the other hand I have never seen so many potential choices at a reasonable cost as I have in the last few years. I am not too concerned because I don’t see those purchasing options going away soon. I don’t see the manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue research and development of new models or related products either. Certainly there has been nothing out there to support the notion that all of a sudden our choices will become drastically limited–assuming, of course, our economy does not go into a total tailspin. I don’t really see that, either.

What I do see is that the members who post on these various LS forums are becoming increasingly more sophisticated about the many aspects of LS and thus are probably not approaching what new choices become available with the same level of enthusiasm as would have been the case a decade ago or even less. I see a LOT of highly talented modelers out there with layouts and rolling stock that are nothing short of astounding. Similarly I see descriptions of operations that are far more sophisticated than anything I could have conceived a few years ago. And the general tendency toward achieving the prototypical has only increased. Maybe too much so in that it can be intimidating to those just entering the hobby. But that is just a marker of a hobby that is now maturing. Apparently it is inevitable.

So perhaps we LS enthusiasts have become somewhat jaded about the hobby. Is that not to be expected? The term “malaise” is a little over the top. As I see it, our hobby is not hurting so much as it is maturing. That is not such a bad thing. Like any other aspect of the economy, ours is a product that still must be sold to the general public. Most have never even heard of it. As others have pointed out, this is an endeavor that dovetails well with gardening. Perhaps that is the best way to sell it.

I have never seen myself as one to promote the hobby. That is not my mission in life. But I surely love to show what I have off. People who never thought they would find an interest in railroads certainly find an interest in THIS one. And I am sure that is a story which repeats itself in many a garden railroad where the general public has some access. I myself never thought of myself as a railroader or a model-maker of any kind. Fifteen years ago had someone suggested I would get into GARDEN model railroading I would have never taken them seriously. But I did. And I did it WITHOUT the benefit of a local garden railroad club or ANY railroad club for that matter. And I did it without the benefit of any of these forums, none of which existed at the time. Nor did I have a substantial budget with which to work. I still don’t. In fact I am still not a railroader–not really. Nor am I much of a model-builder. I certainly have not done anything much in the way of rolling stock modification in all the years I have been involved in LS. I do build some structures, but am hardly an expert at that either. But I am definitely an LS enthusiast. Somehow I sold myself on it. If it can happen to me, way up here in the middle of Nowhere, Alaska, it most certainly can happen to anyone. General malaise? I think not. It is only self-limiting oneself and one’s hobby to suggest such things.


Ron, I too prefer the word ‘maturing’ to ‘aging’.

I have been throught both processes, but have so far failed to mature much past the ‘wow, lookit that!’ stage, but on the way I have definitely aged.

Best

tac & ig, the Christmas Vulture

Ray Dunakin said:
Although I'm always happy to see new products, I'd like to see some previous products re-released and/or updated.
Couldn't agree more, Ray. See my post about the Bachmann Climax - a real jewel of a model that many over here missed out on because of the ferocious pricing policy of the importer. At one time it hit the $1000 mark here.................. :O

Just about everybody who sees ours goes into dribble mode, craning their necks to watch the Stevenson valve gear working underneath the boiler, and as for reports that it was a feeble hauler [GR], ours regularly hauls ten-twelve log cars with log loads and a bobber…

Bachmann’s little Baldwin ‘Lyn’, or the US version thereof, would benefit from a new designed mechanism to return it to the fold. The number of folks on the Bachmann site, and elsewhere, trying to get their defunct loco to work is painfull to note.

There are many others, I’m sure…

Best

tac & ig, the Christmas Vulture

Yup I got a Climax I bought from Mr Comee about 3 or 4 years ago, I am very fond of it. Sophisticated I aint. A transforer with 2 wires to the track and no noises, oily smoke or DCC witchcraft.

I have one live steamer, An Accu Nevada shortline job. I fire it up and set it off, no radio no nuffin. Simple soul me. :slight_smile: