Large Scale Central

Bachmann Quality Control (or lack there of!)

General Discussion
#61

Didn’t one of the Accucraft locos have the opposite problem–geared so low that even at 24 volts it barely moved? I know their Shay is geared very low. It’ll pull stumps, but the battery R/C guys won’t get much past walking speed with it.

Quote:
...

If you don’t buy the junk, then they won’t build junk and start making a good quality product.


Tony, that’s an ideal sentiment, but there are two flies in that ointment. First, we’re so starved for product that we’ll buy it regardless of the hoops we need to jump through to get it to run or look like we want it to. The guys who have the K-27s aren’t newcomers to the hobby. They know there might be “issues” with version 1, yet they line up to buy it anyway. The only reason I’m not among them is because I’m not a D&RGW fan. Had it been an EBT mikado, I would have met the container at the dock. So long as the issues aren’t insurmountable, history has shown it’s a trade-off we’re willing to accept. Yeah, we vote with our wallets, but we keep voting “yes.”

The second point is that if we do decide enough is enough and start to vote “no,” we run the risk of our silent protest being interpreted as a lack of demand, and having the plug completely pulled. Maybe it would take more than one expensive flop for that to happen, but we’re not a very large group of people, despite our vociferousness. Take Bachmann’s 45 tonner as an example. That was pretty much a flop–not for mechanical difficulties–but because it was large and unwieldy. There are many other smaller diesels which would make great candidates, but one has to wonder if Bachmann is ever going to consider doing a diesel in the future. I’d be surprised.

We almost have to push for improvements from a post-release standpoint. I think that Philly can definitely be a bit smarter in street-testing these models before they’re released, but that has to be balanced against getting the product out to an impatient marketplace with a seemingly insatiable appetite.

Later,

K

#62

Whoa!!! From this very site, LGB has been the best thing for the hobby since ice cream, now I find out that they made less than perfect parts. Curmudgeon, thanks for pointing this out. Kevin, if you keep things as they are, then nothing will change. For me, I’m not buying anymore junk, I might be starving. But I’ll not eat crap. I’m done good bye.

#63

Wow you guys must be BORED

#64
Tony Goatz said:
Then stop buying the stuff now! Why keep buying Bachmann or any other brand if you know they keep making stuff not up to your standards? I think that the silence from Bachmann and/or MR. Reece about this problem speaks volumes. I think maybe I have bought my last Bachmann locomotive.
Tony,

The trick is to be very selective, to know what gremlins are hiding before hand. To know how to fix it and to get it at the best price possible. All of that may require some patience.

No problem, lots of that on tap. :wink: :slight_smile:

#65

To those wanting to Bach-cot Bachmann:

Again, my declaration is not to refuse purchase of Bachmann’s locos, instead, offer this observation:
Bachmann’s products CAN be and ARE usually “fixed” after first purchasers reveal the problems. So those who wait for Dr. Goodson’s analysis and remedies come out OK – e.g. purchsers of the “final” edition of the Shay. Meanwhile, the lack of Bachman’s pre-release testing and the clear demand for that testing by those writing on this site is, and was, the focus of my posting.

Wendell

#66

Short of the various feelings in play, there are some good points:

1.) The K-27 is fantastic, but may be geared too high… even though a better ratio was originally recommended.
2.) Refusing to buy equipment from a manufacturer is often interpreted as lack of demand instead of dissatisfaction with quality or function.
3.) Buying equipment is often interpreted as approval of the model as-is.

So, maybe the thing to do is, for folks who have bought this to complain about the problem, so that there won’t be an issue with demand, or a misconception that everything’s just right.

The problem is, historically, some of these companies choose the wrong people to listen to, so that the right people at the company never hear from the bulk of the folks who might have something to say. Instead they listen to folks with agendas, and “programs” whose primary interests are at best other than pleasing the ultimate end users… and at worst simple greed. That makes it very difficult for the end users who have the issues to find the appropriate audience for their complaints… as they generally don’t have access to the right ears, and everything they do hear is sanitized by those who need that kind of “spin” to advance their interests. “it is a crock of ____ and it stinks” quickly becomes “This new plan will actively promote growth and efficiency of this organization and these areas
in particular.” That is how ____ happens. (if you don’t get the reference, see: http://harts.net/reece/humor/management )

That’s not the fault of the special interest seekers or the greedy … over time, it should be as obvious to the company as it is to us who is credible, and who is not. Unfortunately at the decision making level, there’s very little chance of any meaningful consequences for that kind of dereliction, or for being so out of touch with the people who actually buy and make use of the products they’re making that they can easily believe everyone’s thrilled.

Matthew (OV)

#67

Kind of like when the first 10 wheeler arrived lots of problems. I like to wait till they have been around for awhile hear all the good and bad and then get the one that works. Later RJD

#68

<And in order to save on transportation they can source it close by from Bühler.>
Fer crimeny sakes!
Another fine company forced to China by rising costs of doing business!
When will it end! :frowning: :frowning:
Look for them to fold in the next couple years.
Moving to China is not always the smart thing to do.
Ask the former LGB.

#69

With China’s economy booming, it will last less that Korea did as the place to have our trains made.

#70
John Bouck said:
Fer crimeny sakes! Another fine company forced to China by rising costs of doing business! When will it end! :( :( Look for them to fold in the next couple years. Moving to China is not always the smart thing to do. Ask the former LGB.
John,

It isn’t going to end. Not in a free capitalistic economy. We are going to buy what is good enough, that meets our needs, and we can afford. We will enjoy it and continue to improve the hobby, move forth, some will stay with the old, and some of it all will survive. If there is a major World conflict, we will slow down or stop in purchases. When it is over we or our survivors will buy again. It is a great life or you can become a martyr and we wil be stow great praise on you for your sacrifice.

Can I have an “Amen”?

#71

Frankly, I do not know what you are talking about folks… I just read the GR review of Bachmann`s K-27 and it does not say: BEWARE! It is a piece of cheap Chinese junk - DO NOT BUY IT!!! Instead the review concludes with pros such as excellent finish, excellent operating characteristics and such.
The only problems listed are scale discrepancies and a couple of pretty minor, and to me insignificant things, such as water drain emptying on the tender floor or front coupler fouling the pilot beam. So you must ALL BE WRONG about gearing ratios, counterweights, and other falling off bits… And you must all be wrong about the lack of beta-testing at Bachmann. Surely, the reviewers have enough time to test the locomotive extensively and would inform the public and the manufacturer of any (design/manufacturing/quality) problems if they existed!! This is the purpose of a professional and independent review. I mean, if Bachmann sales people read the GR review they should have pretty few concerns about selling their products. Similarly, the customers reading the review will only be encouraged to buy the K, even if they will have to fix that cab door to open 90 degrees, if it really bothers them that it opens to 60 only… this is about the most serious problem with the latest Bachmann’s product I can read about in the GR review! Now, where is my check book… Zubi

#72

OK…

Amen!

#73
Zbigniew Struzik said:
Frankly, I do not know what you are talking about folks... I just read the GR review of Bachmann`s K-27 and it does not say: BEWARE! It is a piece of cheap Chinese junk - DO NOT BUY IT!!! Instead the review concludes with pros such as excellent finish, excellent operating characteristics and such. The only problems listed are scale discrepancies and a couple of pretty minor, and to me insignificant things, such as water drain emptying on the tender floor or front coupler fouling the pilot beam. So you must ALL BE WRONG about gearing ratios, counterweights, and other falling off bits... And you must all be wrong about the lack of beta-testing at Bachmann. Surely, the reviewers have enough time to test the locomotive extensively and would inform the public and the manufacturer of any (design/manufacturing/quality) problems if they existed!! This is the purpose of a professional and independent review. I mean, if Bachmann sales people read the GR review they should have pretty few concerns about selling their products. Similarly, the customers reading the review will only be encouraged to buy the K, even if they will have to fix that cab door to open 90 degrees, if it really bothers them that it opens to 60 only... this is about the most serious problem with the latest Bachmann's product I can read about in the GR review! Now, where is my check book... Zubi
Did you see the link provided in the review? Did you go there? Did you see the list? Trust me, what was submitted was not as PC as it was printed. I have seen the original.
#74

Dear Curmee, I read the paper review. I do not care about hidden or linked contents, sorry. What is written there, remains. Best, Zubi

#75

Just something I cannot figure out in the dark mystery of Bachmann is that the On30 pieces (own several) are “gang busters”.
To put the On30 equipment next to the Fn3 products I would hard pressed to see both were
manufactured on the same assembly lines.
A company that can manufacture an Inside Frame 2-8-0 (with counter-weights) in On30 that runs great, would not have a problem reproducing the same quality elsewhere.
You would believe it should easier to spot problems before hand on a “Larger” scale product.

(Still scratching head)

#76

I don’t have a subscription to GR. So, who wrote the review? Sounds like a good review. I would think that who ever wrote the review did a complete analysis of the locomotive and reported what they found.

JD

#77

Zubi, in my opinion a review in GR isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. It’s too watered down and in my opinion the items are not tested but removed from the box run a few feet and packed back up. Their reviews may as well be a beauty contest as far as I’m concerned.

#78

Hear! Hear!
Them danged reviewers, anyway.
Don’t see what’s wrong, don’t spend 7 hours doing full teardowns BEFORE they even run it on those two feet of track.
Of course, being picked on by everyone who knows everything anyway must make life difficult for them.

#79
JD Miller said:
I don't have a subscription to GR. So, who wrote the review? Sounds like a good review. I would think that who ever wrote the review did a complete analysis of the locomotive and reported what they found.

JD


JD, does “A legend in his own mind” come to mind?

#80
Zbigniew Struzik said:
Dear Curmee, I read the paper review. I do not care about hidden or linked contents, sorry. What is written there, remains. Best, Zubi
Oh, dear. The review is 5 full columns. With photos, 2 full pages. All the "tidbits" would not fit. Therefore, from what I understand, the magazine included a link to the "fixes" page on their website to allow full discussion, and instruction, with pictures. You don't care? Really?