Large Scale Central

Bachmann Quality Control (or lack there of!)

Remember the rules:

1.) When reviewing an item just released, be certain that if anything’s wrong you don’t say ANYTHING positive about the model, lest you be seen as a company shill, or have folks think you didn’t actually spend a lot of time doing what you did, and just threw something together as a PR / Advertising trick. Be certain that you hate everything about it, and wonder why the manufacturer would ever push such a piece of junk on the unsuspecting model railroad community. Be sure also to test the model on all of the readers railroads, in every type of weather, and with every possible combination of grades, train length, and brand of track, lest someone call you out for being less than thorough.

2.) When reviewing an item just released, be certain that if anything’s good or right that you don’t say ANYTHING negative about the model lest you be seen as an overly negative so-and-so, who’s only trying to invent problems to further your own commercial interests. So what if the electronics are horribly flawed, or it’s geared wrong … if it looks nice on your mantel, and can pull itself around a circle of track without catching fire, the manufacturer is to be heartily congratulated and commended, unless you want to be seen as bashing a company that goes to great lengths to open new frontiers to the model railroaders they love so much.

So, is it better to be an unqualified, nepotistic shill who glosses over major problems, or a self-promoting naysayer who invents problems and claims the sky is falling?

Must be fun to be a reviewer.

Know what? I have this awesome locomotive. It looks GREAT. It’s “Scale Discrepancies” are actually a plust for me, as they make it properly scaled for everything else on my railroad which is also improperly scaled at a 1:20.3 ratio, and now that it’s been taken entirely to pieces, studied, fixed, and reassembled from the ground up with about a dozen things fixed, it runs like a swiss watch … except that it’s geared a bit high and therefore has some interesting handling issues. Even having had to pay enough to have the problems corrected as I would have for a second locomotive, I’m thrilled to death with it, and have run it daily since it arrived. So, I’d have to agree with the review … it’s a great locomotive, with some issues. If the nuts and bolts of those issues and how to fix them didn’t actually appear in the review itself, but a seperate link… well, maybe the how-to correct the problem wasn’t really in the scope of a “review” as much as a “technical bulletin” and provided a way for the reviewer to address important information (See #1 above) without upsetting the delicate political balance between the magazine and their sponsor. (See #2 above.)

The guy who fixed my locomotive it is also the guy who wrote the GR review. Whether or not he’s a legend in his own mind, he’s certainly outstanding in his field in mine… and others.

Curmudgeon said:
Zbigniew Struzik said:
Dear Curmee, I read the paper review. I do not care about hidden or linked contents, sorry. What is written there, remains. Best, Zubi
Oh, dear. The review is 5 full columns. With photos, 2 full pages. All the "tidbits" would not fit. Therefore, from what I understand, the magazine included a link to the "fixes" page on their website to allow full discussion, and instruction, with pictures. You don't care? Really?
Look Curmee, I do not care because neither of these links is referenced within the main body of the review as ESSENTIAL information (rather it is referenced as "See articles on how to modify your K-27 and modifying the chuff trigger") and indeed it would be very inappropriate to hide elsewhere and link any information of primary relevance from the main body of the review. Especially, if you were given full two pages for the review (the last time I submitted a short half a page story about Aster Co. I was told there is no space for my article in Garden Railways, now I know why;-)... Anyway, I checked the first of these links (although as a paper journal reader I do not understand why I am assumed to have an Internet access) and there comes a story titled "Customize your Bachmann K-27 with these modifications - Four easy cosmetic changes for the K-27". Again, when I read a review I want to learn from an independent expert evaluation (which optimally should be done by more than one, anonymous and not sponsored reviewer) whether I can safely spend my hard earned money on the particular product, or whether it is a piece of junk which i should avoid - and if so why. I do not care about, or at least not now, how I can modify the K, I may or may not care after I buy it. OK, now the second linked piece comes under the title "Bachmann K-27 locomotive modifications -Modify your Bachmann K-27 locomotive's chuff trigger and fix loose counterweights" and it is an utterly cryptic story which is only accessible to someone who already has all the background info (why on Earth would I want to fix loose counterweights on a locomotive which in the main review body is declared to have EXCELLENT OPERATING CHARACTERISTICS!!!???) To be fair to you, there, at the end of the second link comes the crucial statement: "Please do NOT place any load on your locomotive until you have ascertained this problem does not exist on your locomotive." In other words, there is a problem and it sounds like a pretty serious one - the locomotive should not be run! Thanks for alerting me of this link - I would have never checked the link otherwise!! I hope you will guide all GR readers to it;-) Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

PS Curmee, I believe your review is fine, and so is the K and other Bachnann`s locos and rolling stock. I got a bit cross (sorry) because it seems blatantly unfair to acuse Bachmann of a failure to beta-test their locomotives or deliver sub-standard product (junk) if they continue to receive such great reviews (in the premier, most influential large scale magazine!). Something does not seem to be quite right to me… Best regards, Zubi

Bob Kelly said:
Just something I cannot figure out in the dark mystery of Bachmann is that the On30 pieces (own several) are "gang busters". To put the On30 equipment next to the Fn3 products I would hard pressed to see both were manufactured on the same assembly lines. A company that can manufacture an Inside Frame 2-8-0 (with counter-weights) in On30 that runs great, would not have a problem reproducing the same quality elsewhere. You would believe it should easier to spot problems before hand on a "Larger" scale product.

(Still scratching head)


Bob,
I agree.
I will admit I haven’t seen the little guys run, but the pre-weathered box cars, complete with split boards on the sides, are great!

Oh, by the way,
How’s the wood working business going?
Good, I hope.

jb

A reviewer HAS to fudge a little on his review.
He wouldn’t last too long as a review editor if he told the absolute truth.
Next thing that would happen is the Magazine would fire him, because the item being reviewed corporation would threaten to pull ads, etc…
Oh yeah, the magazine wouldn’t publish the review anyway.
It’s all politics and money.

Lets go way back in time:

GR: JB, I need a review on the Bachmann Big Hauler.
JB: OK, I’ll get right on it.
GR: JB, is the review ready?
JB: Sure is. It’s a piece of Crap!
GR: You are fired!

A little later on:
Bachmann: JB, our attorneys will be in touch.

:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

John, this may well be the case in politics but in science and engineering, peer-reviews are standard and before you release any of your work in a decent journal two or three anonymous reviewers - your competitors - are invited to bash your work as they please! They are not payed for this. If someone - usually an established scientist with a considerable scientific record - reviews a book or writes a review article, this is often reviewed too - also anonymously. Of course this is not a full proof system and misuse happens, but this is the best known way to insure integrity and we all need to have our integrity tested, from time to time… best wishes, Zubi

Zubi, I do believe you are clueless.

The two full pages is what it was whittled down TO.
The fixes allowed full photo coverage, and, since cutoff time for submission is far, far earlier than the date you actually received the magazine, the ability to add as we go was a plus.

And, we ain’t done yet.
Operating characteristics.

Okay, compared to what?
Does it lurch like the Shays tend to do?
No.
Does it buck on downgrades like the 4-6-0’s tend to do?
No.
Does it have “lopping” (sic) like some reported on Heislers?
No.
Does it require a full 24v to get to less thanwalking speed?
No.
And, it did NOT lurch full-speed, slam-stop, full-speed, slam stop, while the lights were flashing as one non-reviewable unit in the past did.

Mine starts smoothly, runs at that speed all the way up.
The old, and I mean old, power supplies used in ALL testing (an old, rebuilt MRC throttlepack for H0, and a Tri-Tec Hogger) ran it from stop to full.
Even with loose counterweights.

Since the review, in discussion with others, it seems if folks who play “slot trains” and feel 19-24v pf battery is mandated, the acceleration curve is squashed and they jack-rabbit.

The stuff in the submission that is not in print is puzzling, but it is editorial license.

Oh, and all terminology of the “link” was added after submission.

John Bouck said:
A reviewer HAS to fudge a little on his review. He wouldn't last too long as a review editor if he told the absolute truth. Next thing that would happen is the Magazine would fire him, because the item being reviewed corporation would threaten to pull ads, etc.......................... Oh yeah, the magazine wouldn't publish the review anyway. It's all politics and money.

Lets go way back in time:

GR: JB, I need a review on the Bachmann Big Hauler.
JB: OK, I’ll get right on it.
GR: JB, is the review ready?
JB: Sure is. It’s a piece of Crap!
GR: You are fired!

A little later on:
Bachmann: JB, our attorneys will be in touch.

:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:


Very good JB,

I well remember how certain people would, in desperation, clutch at straws at the translation of a picture caption regarding the Genesis.

But I love all those clueless and not-quite-up-to-speed people anyway, it’s just their way, they can’t help it! :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

I look at it this way.
If you buy a Yugo and think it should have the quality of a Benz then the problem is not with Yugo but with you.

I could be wrong but I don’t belive Bachmann has ever said it was or is trying to be LGB standarts. I think they are trying to fill the entry and mid-price quality area.

Just me two cents worth.

Just got my GR. Nice review, Dave. The locomotive looks surprisingly familiar…

…ahhh what a wonderful thread to read and watch. It reminds me of a pack of hounds all waiting for a run; mingling together and sniffing each other, leading to a few nips and bites here and there. No-one gets physicaly hurt, but a few hurts are felt emotionally, and egos are bruised…

Big queston here, that could be addressed, is whether there will ever be a second run of the “K’s”…and after all the mistakes, and poor publicity; will B’mann want to bother carrying on with this scale, when they can produce their other lines without any real hassel.
Yes they have a lot invested in 1:20.3, but will Kader, who owns the whole mess want to bother, and just pull the plug and write it off as a learning experience. They can afford it.
Their North American “Plant” is so full of managerial problems, and Union controls; it might be a relief to just pull the plug and start over with a new company in a new central place.
Of course as some have noticed; China has it’s problems growing with higher material, and production costs…where next…India, or maybe with the US in rescession, back to a starving labour market in Noth America…maybe not in my life time, but, who knows; it could be the future…!!!

Funny how the hobby is changing…we all wanted the “True scale” of 1:20.3 on Gauge 1 track…we wanted more and finer detail…now we have it, by several manufacturers…but the detail is too fine to stand the vigours of real outdoor “OPERATIONS”, and most is probably going the way of LGB…onto collectors’ shelves, or photo sets for picturs in pretty coffee table books and magazines.
Some of us have retreated back to the old tried and true junque, discarded by the purests as not worthy of consideration; but it runs well and is fine for great operations on a NG theme pike.
True it isn’t, in some cases a model of a specific railroad’s equipment, but going free-lance solves that problem; where YOUR railroad operates what it likes. Instead of the boredom setting in after a few months of, running in circles, photo shoots and getting dusty on the shelves; the actual OPERATION of the pike brings friends together, and the railroad continues to grow and stay very much alive.

There I go preaching again; but as an observer of the Model Railroading hobby over 57 years, I think I just might have some over-all vision of a few trends and experiences…of course this will bring out the young, after 1970 gang of experts to tell me I’m all washed up and haven’t a clue… …Dave …you know what it’s like !!!

Back to building things, in the shop, and enjoying the so-called junque of an earlier age…
Keep it up…I’m enjoying all your writtings…

With a smile…

Well, let’s see, we cussed and discussed that company that may not be named into receivership.

Now we’re working on seconds.

BTW…

I was in the process of building a fleet of 1:20.3 equipment, in order to operate the pike in that scale, but after finding the average offering from all manufacturers, falling apart in the boxes; and the thought of trying to build a fleet in the shop, was too much to start at my age; I gave up.
I had about 30 pieces of rolling stock (Needing about 100 for an operation on my lengthly pike). Luckily, I hadn’t bought any locos that couldn’t “Fit in” my 1:22.5 operation.
I have finally just about sold them all, and find that I have all I’ll ever need, with what I have in 1:22.5.
So…I can enjoy operation at little cost, other than maintenance, and a supply of holy water to lubricate the voices of fellow operators who care to join in the fun.
Finally enjoying not getting my fix by constantly buying, and buying, is more relaxing and satisfying…

…although, I do know that I’m not contributing to the future of the overall market, and thus dooming the kids of today to computer games and druggy type stupidity…oh well…I was hoping their parents who are having them, might like to take on the responsibility that comes with parenthood…

I know I'm dreaming......

Fr.Fred, I’m surprised how little adventurism is left in you at your young age. What will happen when you get old? :wink: :confused: :smiley:

(http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/F-PIX//icon_tc.gif)

I just started my garden railroad last fall. I purchased three Bachman engines, Annie, Mogul and Two Truck Shay. After converting to battery and RC control I have less than $1200 invested in the total package. I run them every chance I get and they have performed without any major problems. By that I mean nothing broke that I could not fix myself. For the price I could not be happier with these Bachmann products. I model narrow gauge and run point to point as well as a continuious loop operation. I can’t quite come up with the price of a K27 but I would buy one in a heart beat. Don’t forget working on the trains is part of the fun of model railroading. IT IS A HOBBY. Maybe being older and retired I don’t waste the time getting mind blowing upset with things that may not be perfect. That is why there are so many lawyers making a living in the country we forgot how to cut the other guy some slack. As for me I probably would only affort to have one engine if I had to stick with LGB instead of the three I now have. Yes I am happier with different engines even if they are only ready to run 90% of the time versus one that might be ready 99% of the time. That way I also get to use the engine repair shop on my layout occassionally. I just hope Bauchman keeps up putting out new narrow gauge equipment in the affordable price ranges they currently have. Even with a few warts.

John

George,
it is not so much buying a Yugo (have not heard of it but no doubt a cheap piece of %&%*) and expecting a Mecedes. The Anniversary is my favourite largescale loco. I collect LGB and purchase Anniversaries to modify and run. The problem is not the perceived quality of the Anniversary (or K-27 or whatever), as I know the Anniversary inside out and know what I am buying, but rather the lack of quality control at point of manufacture. The last Anniversary purchased (I have over twenty units) was the literal straw that broke the camels back. The particular unit has now been rebuilt as a mogul, with modified chassis. I like the Anniversary because it is so ‘bashable’. I have no complaints as regards its inherent quality. My initial posting referred to the lack of quality control.

       Even a Yugo could be made reliable if it was assembled correctly in the first instance.
Tim Brien said:
Even a Yugo could be made reliable if it was assembled correctly in the first instance.
No. One of the prime example of "ugly goes clear to the bone".

There was no assembling it any better.
Do you know what a Lada is?

This looks to be a close cousin.

Not too distant to a Final Italian Attempt at Technology.

HJ…I find that old age, which I seem to have arrived at, is also full of the appreciation of what you are blessed with, and not what you seem to think you want or should buy…but I don’t want to ruin your young outlook on life, or ruin the World markets !!!

My roster includes two old (Latest drive) Big Haulers; Two Annies, an LGB Mogul (First edition, highly modified to look like an actual working loco of a much later age), and two Connies. All are Raidio Controlled and fueled with Gel Cells…no noise or other contraptions or gizmos…
All are dependable, except for normal maitenance; operating in a high milage situation, all summer long. (So far they have all been in service for an averge of 8 years or more…the Connies are the youngest, bringing the average down greatly…the Mogul is the oldest being one of the first to get to North America from the “Fatherland”…!!!)

I would recommend any of these locos for an average pike, as long as the purchaser is handy with a screw driver, and a few other assorted tools, that a serious MODEL RAILROADER would have after doing just a small bit of actual research.

Want to offer a better experience to those who are first purchasers of Bachmann’s locos?
Easy. Create a response on the Bachmann site requesting Kader Industries – the owner, policy-maker, and lead in the manufacturing of ALL Bachmann train products – to PLEASE test their prototype locomotives PRIOR to manufacturing. Product testing is mainstream in other industries – hmmmm, maybe even LGB or USA, Aristo-Craft or?

WHY the Bach-mann site? Per sources, this is the singularly read site by Kader Industries corporate leadership.

As to Garden Railroader reviews, just ask Dave himself what a reviewer can expect to read in the magazine after making a submission. Reviewers are, of course, veterans of editing.

Take some action and send in to the Bach-man your request asking Kader to test before using consumers to take the risk and test for them-- something postitive.

Wendell

Curmudgeon said:
Zubi, I do believe you are clueless.
Curmee, you mean I am left clueless after reading your own review? That would not rate your review very high;-))), Best, Zubi