Large Scale Central

Bachmann Locomotive Pricing

General Discussion
#101

Joe Zullo said:

"So, either tone it down and leave the personal criticisms on the paintball field, or (capital emphasis) I will ask Bob to lock this thread. (Course, that’s not saying he will do it because I ask.)

Bob: if I overstepped my bounds here, please accept my sincerest, humblest, apologies.

-Jason"

Whoa, I really scared now!

I think the “sincerest, humblest, apologies” falls under it’s easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.

It is very strange to see The Internet Police working so actively on this forum. Something I am not used to.

Generally, didn’t we used to police ourselves, within reason?

Like, “You must model the MONON railway and can’t spell” is one of the phrases we used to use.

Just very odd behaviour.

TOC

#102

Kinda ironic reading all this just as I am about to cut up my first Lil Big Hauler loco and an LBH car for a bash idea.

#103

Vic Smith said:
Kinda ironic reading all this just as I am about to cut up my first Lil Big Hauler loco and an LBH car for a bash idea.

Can’t wait to see it Vic!

#104

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

“You must model the MONON railway and can’t spell” is one of the phrases we used to use.

Uhm, I did…And spelled it correctly!

:slight_smile:

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj222/Noble_Dreg/MONON/MONON_4_zpsbb55d5ac.jpg)

#105

Some people seem to think that THEY know what’s best for everyone. Bob is well equipped to judge what he considers best on HIS web page. If he wants help he will ask for it.

Anyone with ideas of what should or should not be on here, should PRIVATELY call or email Bob off list to tell him, if they feel he can’t handle the situation…

…at least that is what I have seen as being the proper way of doing things…but who am I to tell anyone anything…I just try to avoid confrontation…I can get into trouble without even trying, as some of you know…!!!

I haven’t heard of anyone being appointed by Bob, as a moderator…

…as TOC often ends his notes with…

“Move along…nothing to see…”…!!!

Fr.Fred

#106

Ah, another blast from the past, the famous Monon character. There are just too many young bloods these days to get the joke. The character proposed on this site that anyone posting a new thread had the right to personally approve any responses or to delete responses he felt not appropriate or supportive of his views. Now that guy had serious issues.

Undaunted he and another set up a Yahoo family forum for a particular German manufacturer and guess what??? Any new member had to be approved prior posting and any posting response had to be officially approved by either of the two forum founders before it appeared on the site. A posting response, if approved, could take several days to appear on the site.

Once the person became confident with the new member dedication to the brandname and the site, I believe that he eventually received the honour of having his posting response appear automatically, without prior approval. Did I say this guy had serious issues?

Oh, how I miss the good old days. Alas, a lot more work for Bob keeping on top of things though.

#107

This thread is really kinda a shame…If the folks that have expressed their discontent are so GREATLY KNOWLEDGEABLE on Large Scale trains and what the expectations should be from a manufacturer then why are “they” not commenting and guiding others here at Large Scale Central" on how to build them correctly “and” if you were to build them correctly what YOUR PRICE might be??

Is this a fair question?

BTW …Tea an fancy sandwiches are being served down the hall and too the left!

Please remember to vacate the LSC gift shop before leaving

#108

David,

not inferring that you would include me in that band of " GREATLY KNOWLEDGEABLE " modellers, but in days of old such advice was freely given on improving the Bachmann breed. There were numerous requests made and advice generously given by all those gentlemen you so lightly defame.

Dave and others were constantly onhand guiding those beset with Bachmann ‘technical’ issues.

How quickly we forget.

Edit: as regards a fair price, well only a manufacturer knows his true costs of production and amortisation of tooling/equipment costs. However, when a largescale 45-tonner cost me $499.00 some years ago and within two years Ridge Road were selling them for $69.00 and other sellers for $89.00 - $99.00 depending on the particular loco colour choice, then is the MSRP set by Bachmann a true reflection of the cost to produce the item or the amount the market can tolerate?

Remember that Bachmann andother manufacturers have a legal obligation that an item they produce must be fit for purpose, thus should work out of the box. This infers that a knowledge base should not have to be called upon to get a newly purchased item running.

Further edit: why is the onus on the modeller to sort issues out? Why is the manufacturer not held accountable?

#109

Sounds like a fair question to me.

#110

Agreed, it does make one wonder when the MSRP and the street price are so far appart. And you know the dealer is still making something over his/her cost and Bman is still making thier profit margin. The problem is, that really doesnt matter when all you do is keep making duds. Bachman engines look really nice, but to me they are fragile and have drive systems just as fragile. Not that many years ago, LGB is what everything was judged against for running quality and durablity. Much like many compare HO diesels to the Kato brand for drive system quality. But, LGB has also had a couple issues, but not the consistant drive system issues that has plagued the Bachman line of large scale trains. They have the ten wheeler sorted out, but only by reworking it over and over and over ect. With the high cost of everything in life, my train dollers are damn well going to be spent on something with a good reputation, and in my book thats older German built LGB, atleast when it comes to locomotives. Followed by Hartland, USA and Aristocraft, depending on what I want. If you like diesels, then USA is probably your prefered brand. Want affordable 1:20.3 engines, sorry but you will have to deal with Bachmann or spend the $$ for Accucraft. And I do remember those days of having post preapproved before they would show up on the board. I dont even pay for my membership over on MLS. With all the forums, I dont feel I should have to pay for them. I might donate once and awhile to help. Now lets go back to running trains or in the case of Bman’s…fixing them LMAO!!!

#111

MSRP and street price are so far apart…because MSRP is a phony number, always has been.

It is there to allow for multiple levels of discounting.

Look at TrainWorld, figure they are making money (not a lot, as they depend on volume), but should give you an idea of their costings.

Russell- I could answer your question. More than answer it. But I won’t. If you don’t know, there is no explaining it to you adequately.

TOC

#112

David Russell said:

This thread is really kinda a shame…If the folks that have expressed their discontent are so GREATLY KNOWLEDGEABLE on Large Scale trains and what the expectations should be from a manufacturer then why are “they” not commenting and guiding others here at Large Scale Central" on how to build them correctly “and” if you were to build them correctly what YOUR PRICE might be??

Is this a fair question?

BTW …Tea an fancy sandwiches are being served down the hall and too the left!

Please remember to vacate the LSC gift shop before leaving

Rooster

If you would have been around long enough and actually READ the posts, you wouldn’t even ask.

All the mfgs have problems e.g. I have a very nice Brawa Connie. It is an absolute marvel in every respect and I was lucky enough to get the Mark II version. That is the one in which the motor and the drive train to the gearbox was replaced by a reliable Swiss design.

What were the original components? Supplied by Aristo, lurging downhill because of a stupid gear train design, a cheap motor from Mashima which was almost impossible to tune with even the best decoders (Zimo).

That’s just one example where a co-operation with a third party was the pits, as soon as we got wind of who was supplying the drive train it was “Oh boy” time.

BRAWA found out the hard way; it must have cost them plenty and since they only deliver high quality product, they fixed the problem and a year after exited the 2m market. What a shame!

They don’t need the hassle, they earn better money with reliable sub-suppliers in other scales.

Doing it right costs money (QC, QC and QC again) and that is precisely what is lacking when it comes to LS “toys”.

#113

WOOWWWW! I haven’t checked this thread in awhile, this has gotten interesting.

Welcome Back TOC!!

A couple of pages back HJ said “Arguing with certain people on the Internet is wasted time, I rather work on our layout and a gazillion other projects. Looks like the weather is getting better, time to hit the road and chase after trains.”

Referencing that, my grandfather would have said “Convince a man against his will, he’s of the same opinion still”.

I started back in the hobby 5 or 6 years ago after purchasing my K27 and joined this forum. I don’t always agree with TOC, but have never found his information/advice to be inaccurate. I am currently in the slow process of upgrading my K27 to battery, AirWire with Phoenix PB11 sound. All things TOC advised long ago. I also have one of Rodney’s reduction drives to install as well.

Again, welcome back TOC.

Bob C.

#114

Before I get back to my regular program, on the phone yesterday Dave (TOC) and I agreed: “We don’t discriminate, we treat all mfgs with the disdain they have earned.”( I’m paraphrasing to make it suitable for family consumption)

:wink: :wink:

#115

Of cause Rooster was throwing a tongue in cheek hand grenade, but sometimes the schrapnel travels further than the blast zone and comes back to bite.

If one thinks particular manufacturers are singled out for criticism, well that icon of largescale, LGB needed its own highly moderated forum to stop those naughty, naughty people having the audacity to criticise the product.

Reminds me of the famous automobile manufacturer Ettorre Bugatti. Any new purchaser had to be approved by the big man himself before having the privilege of owning a new Bugatti. One new purchaser was peturbed that his new high performance automobile did not have the braking level that such a car should have and reported the fault to Ettorre himself. what was the big man’s response? “So you are the one who is giving my car so much trouble”.

Such an anecdote reminds me of the apologists we have on forums who like the proverbial three brass monkeys, see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil!!!

#116

Tim-

I thought this thread was about Bachmann. Maybe we should open it up for Aristo, USA, Delton, Accucraft (almost mis-spelled that). Maybe we could have happy trolls then?

TOC

#117

Dave,

in days of old one could have an advocate from each of the manufacturers to troll the forum sites. These days though, LGB is more or less kaput, Aristo-Craft do they still manufacture anything?, USA Trains well no one really criticised them as they always slid under the critical radar. That leaves only Bachmann for the trolls to support.

Thus these days all the trolls are now gainfully employed supporting the Bachmann cause. The tactics are still the same though irrespective of their initial manufacturer allegiances. Stifle any discussion is their aim. I am eagerly awaiting for Jerry ‘Monon’ to pop up and support the Bachmann cause. Now that would really bring the worms out of the woodwork.

I really cannot see why there is so much angst, fearing we may convince Bachmann to shift away from largescale production. Given they have been shooting themselves in the foot for twenty plus years in largescale, I cannot see any criticism from us hurting them.

#118

Anticipate, right?

I always figured that catch-phrase from the Bach Man meant to not buy now, wait for the next! But, it was always “anticipate”.

Remember the Vulcan Duplexs they wanted to foist on the customer base? And the yelling was loud and long about not wanting some oddball critter, but a main line locomotive?

If I could figure out photo hosting, I’d put photos of my Vulcan Duplex up.

And, maybe my SPNG #9, which I built 18 years ago or so.

Still have the partially completed #8 in the cupboard. Some day.

My 2-8-0 Annie ran long and hard tonight during ops. That’s right, a 2-8-0 Annie.

Weighs more than six stock Annies.

All with CSC oil bunkers…well, the Heisler has a factory bunker.

CCRy has been on the ground 20 years this past February, still going strong. Have yet to kill one BBT drive.

TOC

#119

Mark V said:

Vic Smith said:
Kinda ironic reading all this just as I am about to cut up my first Lil Big Hauler loco and an LBH car for a bash idea.

Can’t wait to see it Vic!

I wouldn’t be able to do it unless the Lil Haulers were so inexpensive. So I guess its all relative. :wink:

#120

Dave,

alas, while Bachmann continue to churn out replacement Annie latest spec drives for under $50.00, I feel the mass market for a very, very good generic drive is a long way off. Most are aware of Barry’s faultless drives but quality comes at a price and for most economy is preferable to quality. Perhaps they do not know better?

If Barry’s drive could be mass produced and combined with a Bachmann locomotive ex-factory, the combination would be unbeatable. It would give Barry an opportunity to retire with a little royalty income.