Large Scale Central

Bachmann Locomotive Pricing

General Discussion
#41

And they use the same tooling today…there are the remaining lugs inside the frame on Version 5 used to mount the old radio board on Version 1’s…they “updated” the smokebox rivets, gave us better headlamps, more piping…so all the 4-6-0’s use fully amortized tooling, long since paid for, and the price goes up…and HJ isn’t happy with the quality?

Why are there six versions of the locomotive?

Just for grins, I keep one of each here, altho some are in separate parts, just to show folks. One guy needed photos for his website, I was happy to oblige.

What is it TAC said, or was it Tim…when the Quasinami equipped three truck bombed, suddenly couldn’t find them here, but all you could get in yUK was the Quasinami equipped ones.

There was a real neat venture into the for reaches of reasonableness…someone once suspected someone who “just wanted to help” was involved in that fiasco.

But, we won’t even think about the wires and plugs between loco and water tender on the three truck…that would not be…prudent.

QC you mentioned…is there really such a thing?

If you’ve never heard of “regrind” in plastics, you should bone up on it a bit.

Cast plastic gears pressed onto steel shafts…and nobody thought they’d split? Really?

I was always particularly fond of the built-in slop between drivers and axles on the Version 5 of the 4-6-0…to compensate for manufacturing “tolerances” in chassis, rods, wheels?

Hard to tell.

When you spend a whole lot of decades quartering drivers and pressing them onto axles so they don’t move…and to see that…the blood pressure blips badly.

Of course, the change in the chuff contacts in the later metal truck Shays…without looking at the cylinder cock vent lines…and if you roll it onto the engineer’s side, either on purpose or by accident, and the ends of the pipes push in and lock the pistons…wonder who bothered to look at that in QC.

Heislers with no port to lube the brush end of the motors…even though it is shown in the “documentation”…QC was on vacation that week, right?

The best one, of course, is just referred to as “14.5:1”.

Oh, and HJ…the Half Zero guys STILL call the company by that name. Still.

TOC

#42

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

Why are there six versions of the locomotive?

Why does my new Malibu look nothing like my dads '57?

:wink:

#43

Ah, you missed the first part. Other than add-on do-dads and better rivet detail, they all look exactly the same.

Your argument has now failed.

Next?

TOC

#44

And how do YOU think a Baldwin 4-6-0 should look, if not ‘the same’? If you can’t figure that out on your own, you really are an old curmudgeon!

Your statement is BOGUS. Next!

#45

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

Ah, you missed the first part. Other than add-on do-dads and better rivet detail, they all look exactly the same.

Your argument has now failed.

Next?

TOC

Next?

Well not two minutes ago the UPS guy dropped off my Bachmann “Flying Rio Grande” Spectrum caboose. Amazing quality/detail/price. I’m going to double-head my K’s as they pull a string of AMS stock cars around the pond…Just as soon as I get that box opened.

#46

I think the point was that it’s taken 6 versions to “get it right”

The Malibu was pretty good right off the starting block.

By the way, if you do INDEED have 57 Malibu, you are a rich man, because it’s really rare, especially since the first Mailbus were built in 1964!

Greg

#47

Joe Zullo said:

And how do YOU think a Baldwin 4-6-0 should look, if not ‘the same’? If you can’t figure that out on your own, you really are an old curmudgeon!

Your statement is BOGUS. Next!

Has nothing to do with looks. Obviously, reading with comprehension is a good trait to have, eh? The issue was QC, or, for those whose understanding may be in the “lacking” department, “Quality Control”. I really thought it was laid out well.

You do know the differences in internals, right?

Cannot figure out how we got to how things “look”, rather than “perform”, but thread drift is still allowed.

Back to you.

TOC

#48

The more I thought about this, the more puzzled I am. I could give a rat’s hindquarters how it looks.

On the 4-6-0, when the “Anniversary” upgrades were done, finished, shipped, the tender was not addressed, other than the metal grabirons. Odd, thought I.

Then, if you’ve ever looked into the roof vent on the cab, you will find about half the parts are there to make it opening, like most of the rest of the locos.

When queried, Howard stated “we had to stop somewhere”. Okay. But why start if you’re not going to finish it (like roof vent)?

Since I’ll probably never see a Version 6, does the roof vent open?

Every version was supposed to be THE “fix”, and wasn’t.

Fortunately, we had Barry to provide the permanent fix.

All this, and the original question was the price of new locos.

I am certainly glad I am not in a position to be “entry level” in the hobby. I would not enter it at these costs.

TOC

#49

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

Has nothing to do with looks. Obviously, reading with comprehension is a good trait to have, eh? The issue was QC, or, for those whose understanding may be in the “lacking” department, “Quality Control”. I really thought it was laid out well.

You do know the differences in internals, right?

Cannot figure out how we got to how things “look”, rather than “perform”, but thread drift is still allowed.

Back to you.

TOC

We got to ‘looks’ because of you…

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

Ah, you missed the first part. Other than add-on do-dads and better rivet detail, they all look exactly the same.

Your argument has now failed.

Next?

TOC

So if you think I’m a dummy, then right back at you! You sir, are quite condescending.

#50

Sort of reminds me of the old Bill Cosby skit with the .45 round in the shop furnace.

Nobody called anybody a dummy.

Why would you think that?

Here I was, contributing to the reasons for and against a price increase.

Oh, well.

I simply pointed out your argument had failed.

How you got dummy from that is anybodies guess.

Maybe HJ will know.

TOC

#51

Welcome back, TOC, you have been missed!

#52

Joe don’t think so.

I usually come around when somebody calls me up to see something…this time I looked around and figured I’d stay a while.

I really should spend more time here.

Tomorrow is battery charge day, Friday is ops.

Man, the stuff is growing this year. Been whacking it back from the main lines and branch lines for weeks.

Digging deep moss chunks outta the balast and reballasting.

Should be all ready to go!

TOC

#53

The question remains:

What assurances can Bachmann give us that would produce a universal level of product confidence and trust while still retaining those same manufacturing practices?

Wendell

#54

Page 3? Hmmmm … it isn’t rocket science; if YOU feel the price and the item constitute good value then you buy it. If not, all the bitching won’t do any good if the mfg decides that’s what he wants for the item i.e. you live without it.

TOC

Two years ago I finally figured it out :wink: :slight_smile: . Arguing with certain people on the Internet is wasted time, I rather work on our layout and a gazillion other projects. Looks like the weather is getting better, time to hit the road and chase after trains.

#55

I am completely amazed that there are those who have the audacity to criticise the guru of Bachmann largescale. Where were all these people when it was Dave unselfishly putting his valuable time into developing the Bachmann range of locomotives with no reward other than to beta test and provide corrections for new product? He was the go to guy the company called on when issues arose or needed correction. He was not a paid consultant who may possibly have had ulterior motives in promoting particular changes to Bachmann’s future direction. (rant mode OFF)

I lost count of the number of Bachmann Anniversaries that I purchased (literally dozens). Basically, every locomotive whether purchased on sellout or full retail had QC issues. How anyone with no mechanical expertise survived the early years of the hobby amazes me? One really needed more than basic skills to keep their new purchase running.

After the early years of the Big Hauler line the company lampooned us with the self destruct Shay, then the self destruct Connie, then the self destruct American and mogul. Add to that the drive issues with both the Climax and the Heisler. Then factor in the K-27 final gearing fiasco and the three-truck ‘rigid’ wiring connections between the trucks. It took the company nearly twenty years to get a decent, reliable 4-6-0 drive ex-factory. That being said I have had no issues with the version 5 Annie once I completely disassembled it and rebuilt it as it should have been done on the production line. I even purchased additional gearboxes and motors just in case. However, to date not needed.

Remember if I purchase locally to get the famous B’mann lifetime warranty, I pay twice the retail price you pay for Bachmann products and I do not have the option of shopping around for the best price. It is a take it or leave it scenario. Fortunately, I purchased most my items when economy postage was available as I would not be able to afford the hobby these days.

I am indeed grateful that Bachmann chose to model 1/20.3 scale as it is too large for my railroad and thus I stopped purchasing Bachmann products when the big engines were introduced. I can now purchase LGB locomotives cheaper than Bachmann locomotives. The old rose glasses consortium would be twisting in their graves given the current situation.

#56

Wendell Hanks said:

The question remains:

What assurances can Bachmann give us that would produce a universal level of product confidence and trust while still retaining those same manufacturing practices?

Wendell

Wendell :slight_smile:

I know you’re kidding us. The only way they could ever do that is by having some very rigorous Quality Control, from materials to final product. That’s how it’s done and it ain’t gonna happen.

BTW did you hear about the E10 recall that MLGB issued? They’ll even have a courier outfit pick up the engine at the customer’s home address. I looked at the pictures that were posted on the Internet and just shook my head. What I’m trying to say: most of the MOR outfits are cutting corners like crazy and pray that it will work out. But since most of that iffy product still finds a buyer, they gotta be on the right track, eh?!!

#57

I remember reading a conversation in my older G scale magazines from pre internet days and the same discussion went on about the high cost of LGB equipment and espicaly the Moguls that had just come out. Only LGB did thier research and pretty much any mogul is a good runner right out of the box with only a good relubrication if its been inactive for some time. I have never cared for Bman’s quality control, basicly using the end user for beta testing. If they really wanted to build the ultimate ten wheeler, first update it to 1:20.3 scale and stuff a clone of the BBT drive system in it. I dont see Barry making replacement drives for LGB Moguls and those have been around longer than Bmans big hauler. Bman’s stuff is beautiful to look at, fragile to handle and fragile to run for many of the models. I will stick to my LGB, which has proven itself time and time again. And to clarify, thats West German produced LGB, not this new stuff from China or Hungry via Marklin. Cheers Mike

#58

It’s really quite simple. If you don’t like Bachmann or their products then don’t buy them. The small minded criticisms and obvious hatred spewed by the same small clan of individuals who revel in degrading any company that doesn’t live up to their view of how things should be is nothing more than hot air and should basically be ignored. If certain individuals are better than the manufacturers at designing these products maybe they should start their own model train company and show them how it is done.

#59

I cannot believe it. Firstly, we have Dave who has come out of the woodwork and now John (is that your real name) Sauer as well. Must be time to celebrate as it rekindles the discussions of years past.

Times have really changed when John (is that your real name) Sauer is criticising those who critically comment on Bachmann’s performance in the marketplace. Price is only one avenue that the company can be criticised for.

Then again Marklin’s performance of late has been well below par and only a true diehard would stand and defend their recent performance, hence John, is that really your name, Sauer criticising some who would critically comment on Bachmann’s performance. How times have changed. Do rose coloured glasses also work on Bachmann products as well? As sergeant Schultz famously said, “I see nothing”.

The E110 from Marklin was truly a disaster for a new low cost line of locomotives. Couple a poor motor to a single drive motor block and then forget to install power pickups (or was this a cost efficiency exercise?). All production was recalled. When has Marklin had to recall items previously? Maybe the poor paintwork on the European coaches a few years ago which lead to a recall or the flimsy Chinese made end railing on the RhB coaches.

John, I am still not convinced it is your real name, I also await a response from your alter ego, as this thread has brought you out of the woodwork, who knows who else may surface. I really liked the friendly bantering of years ago, so sadly missing of late. I do admire heroic staunch defense of the underdog.

#60

Tim,

JJ (re)surfaces periodically to defend the indefensible, always good for a laugh. (Hehehe)