Large Scale Central

Aluminum Track Options

Track and Trestles
#41

Here’s my take - after 15 years messing with track at my home and seeing defunct club member’s layouts result in a club that has gone from 250 to 70 family memberships. On-going maintenance, or the disinterest in doing so, is the wild card in the deck:

1 - Heat and sun are the enemies of the plastic ties - spray the track at the point of installation, ties and all, with Rustoleum’s new plastic compatible spray – several colors available. Spray a short section, and immediately wipe off the rail tops with a dry rag. Worst sun durabilty is Aristo-Craft ties. The spray does extend lifespan from the cracking and splitting disintegration . Best are PIKO, USA, and LGB …plus brands other writers have suggested. no matter, spray 'em anyway. I use a rusty brown. Looks good.

2 - Double-up the ties on curves and over trestles. The authenticity folk will challenge the look. You will celebrate knowing the track will absolutely stay in gauge. I am into trouble-free operation considering 99% of those who view our layout want to see it run while they are present not watch narrated spontaneous repair. Condition of the ties and resulting effects are the usual surprise points. A spontaneous running of our layouts is FAR better than expending advance layout preparation time for relatives who may be more interested in talking in the family room punctuated with the all-too-loud whispered “Honey they have seen the trains.”

3 - Lastly, plan for ease in running and ease in maintenance. These two are the first design considerations unless you expect disinterest two years after it is built. Running becomes, for many, a predicted experience and later (because of maintenance needs) their layout becomes a static display accompanied with a parade of excuses as to what needs to be done to make it operational.

Don’t believe the last point? Just talk to the many former members of a club who now have a static non-operational memorial in their yard because the didn’t fully consider the maintenance and operational challenges of a train AND their garden.

Selah,

Wendell

#42

I’ll concur with Wendell on the KISS layout principal, keep maintenance on your mind. My planned layout will be quite small by most standards, 10x20, but it will be roughly what I had ten years ago and I found that even that demanded alot of time for upkeep and pre running prep.So I am back planning to keep the track simple with a few turnouts for operation. Kevin Strong’s layout is a big influence. But it should allow me to run a large selection of items including potential for live steam if I win the lotto

#43

I personally much prefer the look of code 250 rail. I’m very aesthetically-minded, though. I don’t mind doing a little extra engineering in exchange for a more proper appearance and reliable operation. Alas, that pretty much takes sectional track out of the equation, but I’m also fine with that as I find needing to use set curves frightfully limiting with regard to how and where you lay your track. I can’t say “I know no other way,” but it’s how I started, so it’s become quite second nature. I will say that a good dual-rail railbender will prove itself worth its weight in gold. I know they look shockingly expensive at first glance, but having “belly-bent” many curves, this is by far a simpler and much more precise means of bending track.

With regard to the size of the rail, I’ve used them both. There’s really no advantage to code 332 so long as your track is laid on a solid foundation. If a large-ish rock, stick, or acorn is going to derail a train running on code 250, that same thing will derail a train running on code 332. If a tree limb is going to fall on your track, it’s gonna kink code 332 as much as it does 250. The key is “solid foundation.” That means if you step on it, it doesn’t settle into the ground. If your railroad is laid on loose gravel or mulch, then you’re relying on the rails to keep the track from sagging as the train runs over it. If that’s to be the case, then larger/stronger is your friend, but I’d in no way endorse building a permanent railroad where that would be the case.

Brass vs Aluminum? Either works well. Brass weathers to a nice brown/black patina over time, saving you the trouble of weathering it. Downside–the tops of the railhead also gets that same patina, which isn’t 100% prototypical. When sanded/polished, the top is, well, brass, not silver. Again, not terribly prototypical. Aluminum gives you a more prototypically “silver” railhead, but you’ve got to paint the sides of the rails. Depending on the paint, this may wear off over time, especially if you’re frequently ballasting the railroad.

Later,

K

#44

Wendell Hanks said:

Here’s my take - after 15 years messing with track at my home and seeing defunct club member’s layouts result in a club that has gone from 250 to 70 family memberships. On-going maintenance, or the disinterest in doing so, is the wild card in the deck:

1 - Heat and sun are the enemies of the plastic ties - spray the track at the point of installation, ties and all, with Rustoleum’s new plastic compatible spray – several colors available. Spray a short section, and immediately wipe off the rail tops with a dry rag. Worst sun durabilty is Aristo-Craft ties. The spray does extend lifespan from the cracking and splitting disintegration . Best are PIKO, USA, and LGB …plus brands other writers have suggested. no matter, spray 'em anyway. I use a rusty brown. Looks good.

2 - Double-up the ties on curves and over trestles. The authenticity folk will challenge the look. You will celebrate knowing the track will absolutely stay in gauge. I am into trouble-free operation considering 99% of those who view our layout want to see it run while they are present not watch narrated spontaneous repair. Condition of the ties and resulting effects are the usual surprise points. A spontaneous running of our layouts is FAR better than expending advance layout preparation time for relatives who may be more interested in talking in the family room punctuated with the all-too-loud whispered “Honey they have seen the trains.”

3 - Lastly, plan for ease in running and ease in maintenance. These two are the first design considerations unless you expect disinterest two years after it is built. Running becomes, for many, a predicted experience and later (because of maintenance needs) their layout becomes a static display accompanied with a parade of excuses as to what needs to be done to make it operational.

Don’t believe the last point? Just talk to the many former members of a club who now have a static non-operational memorial in their yard because the didn’t fully consider the maintenance and operational challenges of a train AND their garden.

Selah,

Wendell

Some very good points. I have some thoughts on each

  1. I live in Seattle. We don’t get that much sun (for better or for worse) but a lot more moisture. I will ask around some locals to see how their ties have held up but we don’t experience any sort of heats that are experienced elsewhere.

  2. When you say double up the ties do you mean use the USA gauge (which isn’t double but more then Euro) or do you mean something else?

  3. I definitely want ease of running and low maintenance. This has what has convinced me that I should switch my trains to battery powered. From everything I have read/been told by others longer term they are far easier to run. Track cleaning is but sweeping debris off the rails. I don’t have to worry about plugging anything in. The PVC rail bed I am putting the tracks on should keep the tracks in good shape.

I totally agree that the trains really need to be able to run at a moments notice. Both for me, and for visitors. Short term it won’t be that way as I get the setup built but the goal is to get to a point where trains are stored in a secured shed of sorts where chargers will be available to keep the trains charged. Running the trains will be a matter of checking the track for debris, opening an access door, turning them on and making them go.

Fortunately for the debris side of things, my hard has very few plants in it or tall trees to deposit stuff on the rails.

#45

As to “doubling up on track ties” I take foot long strips of bare ties (say PIKO) and cut the spacers out. I thread the separate ties on to a curve section of track so that they are abut 1/4" to 1/2" from each other. That section of track, especially on a curve whereby garden tending will mean being stepped on by even the most cautious, is going to stay in gauge!

Authenticity on my layout has given way to durability – and strange enough so little comment about authenticity. In fact, I’ll hear prototypical testimony that the “railroads frequently doubled up on the ties for strength.”

Nuff said.

Wendell

#46

Wendell Hanks said:

As to “doubling up on track ties” I take foot long strips of bare ties (say PIKO) and cut the spacers out. I thread the separate ties on to a curve section of track so that they are abut 1/4" to 1/2" from each other. That section of track, especially on a curve whereby garden tending will mean being stepped on by even the most cautious, is going to stay in gauge!

Authenticity on my layout has given way to durability – and strange enough so little comment about authenticity. In fact, I’ll hear prototypical testimony that the “railroads frequently doubled up on the ties for strength.”

Nuff said.

Wendell

That sounds reasonable. From what I gather, everyone has different aspects of this hobby that are important to them. For me, it just needs to look good (mostly to me) so whether the rails are too tall, or whether they are spaced out too far/too close is not that important.

#47

Nicolas,

I wouldn’t downplay the effects of the sun. Heat and UV will have their affect, Even here in the NW. It has to be considered. Also, storing outdoors in a shed without some kind of climate control will also have some downside.

#48

Paul Burch said:

Nicolas,

I wouldn’t downplay the effects of the sun. Heat and UV will have their affect, Even here in the NW. It has to be considered. Also, storing outdoors in a shed without some kind of climate control will also have some downside.

What sort of downsides? If the shed is insulated would that be enough?

#49

Heat,cold,humidity. Insulation should help. It’s 94 outside today. I just looked at my track for any heat warping. All is ok. I have learned through the years to allow for expansion. Just one day like this can do a lot of damage. My track is fixed to concrete roadbed so proper gaping is very important.

#50

Paul Burch said:

Heat,cold,humidity. Insulation should help. It’s 94 outside today. I just looked at my track for any heat warping. All is ok. I have learned through the years to allow for expansion. Just one day like this can do a lot of damage. My track is fixed to concrete roadbed so proper gaping is very important.

Ah. I was more worried about storing the train itself outside in a shed.

How did you go about doing concrete roadbed and why did you choose concrete?

#51

Nicolas Teeuwen said:

Paul Burch said:

Heat,cold,humidity. Insulation should help. It’s 94 outside today. I just looked at my track for any heat warping. All is ok. I have learned through the years to allow for expansion. Just one day like this can do a lot of damage. My track is fixed to concrete roadbed so proper gaping is very important.

Ah. I was more worried about storing the train itself outside in a shed.

How did you go about doing concrete roadbed and why did you choose concrete?

Like I commented to you before in previous posts…you really need to take a little trip and visit Paul’s layout. I was serious about that. It has to be one of the best, if not THE best engineered layout you will ever see. The water drainage system in his layout is remarkable. All underground and out of sight. These are just a few of the innovations he has in his railroad. He has invited you over to see and run trains. Take him up on his offer…you will not regret it. :slight_smile:

#52

Al Pomeroy said:

It is funny that no one mentions Micro Engineering track. I have been using there rail and tie strip for years without any adverse effects. while I use code 250, they also make code 332 alum as well. I think the price point is comparable. not sure what the current availability is as I have had sufficient stock on hand for a while, but he last time I ordered tie strip it was available without a problem. made in the USA.

http://microengineering.com/products_rail.htm

http://microengineering.com/products_gtfts.htm

Al P.

My two sense if Micro Engineering tie strips are being considered.

I bought some Micro Engineering code 250 nickel silver rail with flexible tie strips back in the 90’s. I put together many 3 ft. sections with 8’ radius sectional curves. Painted the sides of the rails a dark rust color and it looks beautiful. I set up this track in my living and dining rooms on carpet a couple of times a year. Unfortunately, ME didn’t (and still don’t) make switches to match their tie strips. Micro Engineering tie strips are very realistic looking, but unfortunately, after rail is inserted into them, the track is not robust. When stepped on, even by small children, the plastic spike heads will break and the ties will separate from the rail. I don’t think the tie strips, especially with aluminum rail attached, would hold up well outdoors. If a person or large animal inadvertently steps on the track, either the soft aluminum rails would bend easily and separate from the ties and/or the ties would just break away. No telling how the ties would hold up under UV and hot temperatures outdoors. If Micro Engineering track is used indoors with a solid sub-roadbed foundation, I believe it would hold up adequately. But if the track is slightly floating or laying on the ground unsecured and there’s give or gaps underneath the track and it’s subjected to excessive weight or force (like falling dirt or large rocks or being stepped on) it will break easily. I think ME had to keep the molded spike head profiles small to stay in scale and for clearance of wheel flanges.

When I get my permanent layout going, I will go with Llagas Creek track and switches. I have a few samples, but others here could answer to their assembled track’s ruggedness in an outdoor layout. I know code 250 rail fits VERY snugly into their ties strips. While Sunset Valley tie strips look good (visually very close to ME’s tie strips) I see that there are less ‘spike heads’ per tie than the Llagas and ME tie strips have. I also like the realistic tie plates in the Llagas track. But…I don’t think anything out there can hold up to the strength of good ol’ LGB code 332 track!

Here’s a good track discussion, complete with pictures of the ME and Llagas Creek track:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22951/track-spiking-laying-question

#53

About the rail joiners. I agree that using what you’ve got is better (quicker and cheaper) than buying other products. I’ve found that my problem of electrolysis between brass joiners and aluminum rail (I’m track powered), can be solved with an aluminum shim made from pie tins. You can probably use such a shim or a small diameter copper wire (in the 20 - 23 gauge range) to take up some space. I was going to use AL wire, but couldn’t find any small enough.

#54

A QUESTION:

Has there been any credible study showing the difference between brass track and aluminum track as to electrical conductivity?

There is certainly a difference in rail cost making such a consideration meaningful.

For example: a 100’ length of aluminum track with a volt meter at one both ends. Same for brass track in same guage. Power is applied at specific voltages and then measured at the other end. Considering power requirements are important there may be misinformation regarding the degree of power loss, if any, using aluminum track.

#55

Wendell, that test would only work if a load were applied. With no load, no current would flow and there would be no losses.

I know aluminum wire was used in homes years ago, and its still used in the power mast. So there would be some loss, and a bit more then brass (a copper alloy) but its probably not a lot more. The issue with aluminum is that it oxidizes quicker then brass, and the oxidation is not conductive.

#56

Wendell, as much as it pains me to say it, I agree with David. The issue with aluminum and track power is the oxidation. Its rapid and thick.

If you are dead rail, that can work to your advantage, as it gives “tooth,” to the railhead. I know you asked in reference to track power, but I wanted to use that example to point out what can happen to aluminum rail.

#57

Steve Featherkile said:

Wendell, as much as it pains me to say it, I agree with David. The issue with aluminum and track power is the oxidation. Its rapid and thick.

If you are dead rail, that can work to your advantage, as it gives “tooth,” to the railhead. I know you asked in reference to track power, but I wanted to use that example to point out what can happen to aluminum rail.

Gee thanks Steve. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)What did I do, that it pains you to have to agree with me?

#58

Steve Featherkile said:

If you are dead rail, that can work to your advantage, as it gives “tooth,” to the railhead.

So, I guess I should use that AL rail I bought to replace the SS on my curving grade and use the SS on the flats. Another bad I dea you guys have put in my head (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

#59

Oxydation:

Is the challenge to aluminum rail the increased amount of cleaning needed compared to brass rail so track power works? Is twice the amount a fair judgment from those who have both?

Secondly-

If battery power is used, is the oxidation so severe that cleaning is imperative to enable stable operation?

I have considered using aluminum rail simply because of the dramatic difference in cost. Now, I push a drywall sander armed with a 280 grit mesh over the brass rail which is needed if a four day pause in running using track power. With aluminum, will I fact be cleaning prior to each run? Will there be a noticeable loss of rail surface from a need to use heavier grit sanding?

#60

The oxidation of aluminum rail must occur when current is running through it. I haven’t noticed any on mine. With Bat/RC the only cleaning I do, if any, is from the rain splashing dirt and grit on the track (and the usual assortment of sticks and twigs).