Oh that Steve. He’s a clever fellow.
I’d have suggested the same turnbuckles as Bob, if only I’d thought of them. They’re both clever fellows.
If you’re not familiar with them, do check out those turnbuckles . And put in your order ASAP !!! - That tank is worth the price of good detailing! 
Dave Taylor said:I know the feeling of uncharted territory and my lips are sealed as I don't want to add my thoughts on something that is going so well for you so far. I personally think your doing great and awaiting your results (rubbing hands together)..... The build is moving right along Dave! :)
A Little help here guys.. I'm going to start staveing this thing tomorrow, I'm in uncharted territory. I need your advice, so please chime in on your thoughts. My plan was to use 18 gage brads 1 1/4 in long to fasten to each ring (5) and glue with titebond III at the ring and along the beveled edge of each stave. Now I'm wondering if the brad ( one per stave, @ each ring) might be to much for the staves and cause splitting of the staves, and that with a brad every 3/4" around the ply rings might cause splitting of the ply on the rings. Would 2 23 gage pins x 1" long at each ring, per 3/4" stave be enough? The wounds of the 18 gage brads would need to be covered, hopefully by the bands, as the pins would not leave any wounds. I will listen to wisdom. Jon, Randy, John, David, Steve don't let me screw this up at this point.
Tah Daaaah!!! Started to stave this beast… Got the first three glued and pin nailed to the rings…
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-44.jpg)
Checked the fit, and the taper on the staves.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-45.jpg)
Looked great, fit great, tight as a red bug’s a*s over a 55 gal drum, We got it right guys !!!. Couldn’t stop me then. Mounted the first section, and they came out square to the vertical posts when I got 1/4 of the way around. Just to be safe I started over on the staves, using the vertical post for registration. I Just had to set it on the base… OK Steve now it really starts to look like a water tank.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-47.jpg)
Plunged on and got the next section staved. The fit and registration was still great… All the preliminary work and attention to detail really paid off at this point. Set it back on the base to look see… Note: I put a 4 ft level next to it to show how big this thing really is.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-49.jpg)
And a view inside
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-51.jpg)
The last chance to see how the bucket fits inside.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-50.jpg)
I have a few (4) staves that will require custom shaving to fill in between the sections to finnish off the staves. Over all it went much better then I thought it would. Finnish the staves tomorrow… Thanks for all the help guys… Be thinking about the bands …
Ohhhh, Yeah !!!
And this is going to be a surprise for your buddy, am I right? He’s going to be blown completely away!
Excellent!!!
Are you going to be able to lift that when its done?
Without getting a hernia, I mean? :lol: 
Work got in the way of finishing the staves yesterday… 1st on the list for today.
John@ No it’s not a surprise, I wouldn’t make that big of an assumption on someone’s pike, especially for this much work!
Steve@ Surprisingly the tank part is light. I’d guess about 8 lbs. the Base part (with the temp base attached) comes in at about 25 lbs. My plan is to keep the base, tank and roof to come off to make it easy to move indoors for the winter. Andy and I talked about attaching the base to the concrete pad we’ll pour, He suggested “Red Heads” and I like “J” bolt and nuts, we’ll figure it out down the line.
Did a little math on the bands. at this scale (1 1/2) a round 3/4 band scales down to 3/32" I have some welding rod (R45 stamped in it, I’m not a welder and don’t know what that means) at that size, but its rather brittle and stiff, it comes in 2’ lengths, and much cheaper then brass rod. I also have wires that are used to bale used cardboard for re-cycling. its really strong and it 3/32", much easer to bend, and it comes in 14’ lengths. The diameter on the tank is just under 6ft. I have a die to thread this size. The turnbuckles sound like a good idea. a little help with a link please.
The spacing on the bands verying from the bottom to the top, roughly makes be think that I will need about 35 - 40 bands to be proto, but that isn’t a goal. Typically there were several conectors on each band, so this could turn into quite a project if i had to hand build 120 conectors… Your thoughts on this guys.
Sunshine is calling… back to coppering.
Looking very nice, Dave. 3/32" sure seems like a tiny band, but I would certainly go for the easy to bend part! As for turnbuckles, do they HAVE to be real turnbuckles? On my Piko water tank kit, they just put a loop in the end of each band and used a nut and bolt to tighten things up. You really can’t tell unless you look very close.
(http://www.jbrr.com/Pics/Structures/WaterTower/IMG_0345.JPG)
Hmm…looks like one of them needs to be tightened up a bit more.
Dave,
I don’t believe you’ll need anywhere near that many bands. They are closer spaced towards the bottom, but I think 12-16 should be more than enough.
From the pictures I’ve seen, many of these tanks had only 6 or 8 bands.
Ralph
Worked some on the tank, got the bottom trimmed so that it sets flat on the base, trimmed down the top too.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-52.jpg)
I like the look of all those staves, planed down the top, and chamfered the outside edge, I don’t know why, it won’t show, but it does look nicer.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-53.jpg)
Waisted about an hour and a half trying to figure out the cut angles for the roof. Gave up after ending up with the right cuts for a six sided roof, I dont know how I got it that wrong. I want a 8 sided to match the base. Randy you’re the expert… and or anyone else, Steve, Jon, Ralph, David, Bruce…HELP… I want 8 sided with a 12/12 pitch. I’ve got 1/2 in. Baltic Birch 7 ply to use. From crown to eave will be about 17 1/2 inches and the eave end will be about 10 inches. What is the angle of the cut, and the angle of the bevel? Heres a stick up of the angle and size. It’s not cast in stone to that size, I just though that at 45 deg up and 8 sides it would be an easy to figure out cut angles.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-54.jpg)
Ralph I think your right… I have the blueprint of the standard C&NW tank, its a short and wide tank, and this one is tall and skinny, using there spacing and extrapolating up is where I guessed on that many… Still need to figure out the ends.
I’m only making a guess at this point, since I’ve never had to make an 8 sided circle, but I would lay it out on a full sized mock up first, probably from cardboard. Draw a full sized circle and divide it up into 8 parts, kinda like slicing a pizza. That would give you an idea of the roof angles. From that I’d draw up full sized sections of each roof piece, cut them out and tape them together to see how it all fits.
That’s how I’d try to do it, since I stink at math, especially 3 dimensional math. Might make for a lot of cutting and taping, but it should give ya some idea of how to go about it when you’re ready to cut up some wood, especially an expensive piece of birch plywood.
Dave,
I just sent you an e-mail about the dimensions for your tank roof. I have it drawn in my software (MasterCam) now. From this, I get get ANY dimension you will need for your cuts. NO math headaches!
Here’s a quick sketch of the three step process. If you have questions just ask. The most important bit - where an error can occur, is if you neglect to provide for sufficient overhang at the CENTRE of the eight roof triangles. Remember the overhang will be minimal at these points, so you want to be sure you’ve allowed enough. Follow my sketches- better read it it all & ask questions and make sure it’s all clear to you before you begin. If you make the triangles too tall, that’s an error in the right direction! You can trim them shorter from the bottom. However, if you follow this method to the letter you’ll have no problems. No sweat.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/choochoo_chaboogie/_forumfiles/Octoroof.GIF)
I screwed up the code. My bad. The image is there now, on this page:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?pid=177782#p177782
John,
Maybe I’m mistaken on what Dave said, but doesn’t he want the eave edge to form a circle? Looking down from the top of the tank roof? Then that edge becomes a SPLINE, not a curve, when layed out on the flat birch stock. There’s where the cad system comes in. I projected the lines of each pie shape onto a surface parallel with the slope of the roof.
I dunno for sure, Gary; you may be right. I didn’t mean my post to override yours, BTW. I was working on my own post and I got into trouble with posting my scan, then your post appeared and took me by surprise up there. If Dave uses my method but wants a circle as you suggest, then there’s that extra step of course, of drawing and cutting the spline. Your method - or your computer’s! seems easy-peasey to say the least.
Dave,
I think you’re on the right track, but the pitch of the roof looks way too steep. After you get that pitch, I think you have the right idea, but it will be trial and error for a bit using some cardboard pieces.
Heh…and some online help!
http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools/full-octagon.php - but it costs $$$
This one looks good: http://www.blocklayer.com/gazeboeng.aspx
John Le Forestier said:No problem here John. We had these kind of problems all the time in "sinking" dies. This was REAL work in the old days, but with computers, its a snap.:)
I dunno for sure, Gary; you may be right. I didn't mean my post to override yours, BTW. I was working on my own post and I got into trouble with posting my scan, then your post appeared and took me by surprise up there. If Dave uses my method but wants a circle as you suggest, then there's that extra step of course, of drawing and cutting the spline. Your method - or your computer's! seems easy-peasey to say the least.
If he wants a curve, then I can provide a pdf file and he can print it up and transfer the spline right onto the birch wood.
I’ll to explain what I did to build my octogon roof as I did not take pics of the process.
First I calculated the slope length (5 13/16") and the width of at the eave (4 1/2")
Next I ripped a long piece of plywood with bevels on both sides of 22 1/2 degrees (the slope of my roof)
Then fashioned a jig on my miter saw to raise the plywood strip 22 1/2 degrees with the top of the roof facing upwards.
Turn the miter saw 22 1/2 right and make the 1st cut, slide the plywood strip right and turn saw 22 1/2 left and make the 2nd cut to get 4 1/2" at the eave.
Repeat 7 more times. Note you will have 50 % waste.
Gary Armitstead said:Cool, Gary. He could also do it the old-fashioned basic Euclidian way, which is the way I'd go myself, especially since I don't have that fancy app of yours! He could draw the curve from the apex of those triangles using a piece of string and a radius of B. Doing it before assembly might be a bit risky as things never fit exactly according to theory. :o
If he wants a curve, then I can provide a pdf file and he can print it up and transfer the spline right onto the birch wood.
So he could do it after assembly of the roof. Once the roof is sitting in place on the tank, he could go around the circumference with a string from the peak, or with dividers or compass or spacer the depth of his overhang all around the tank to get his overhang and his cutting line, if he ultimately has a circle in mind. I bet that’s more or less how the old boys did it in the first place. Then it depends on how he wants to go about cutting that circumference.
I think in the end a circular roof may be neater than an octagonal series of triangles, 'tho I’ve seen tanks roofed both ways… But then, if you want to match the base, maybe the triangles do a better job of that… (?)
Dave: We’re talking to each other, but it’s really about you; excuse us… At least it’s not behind your back!
