Yeah, I’m still in Southern California for work. I probably won’t get out to Colorado until late May - early June.
Well, Matt, get to that steamup for sure then! 
Ya got work? Wot’s that? :lol:
Dave: still watching closely here - you do nice work. That tank’s looking better all the time. It’s probably a good thing that you’ve got yourself a deadline, too! 
Here in Toronto, trains are running in the backyard again; thank God for the warmer weather! Life is good!
Double Check My Math Please. For the beveled angle on each stave, this is how I figured it. I’m no math whiz, so please check what I’m doing, so I don’t screw this up.
Outside Diameter of the tank ring 20.5 "
add the 2 3/8 thick staves. + .75 "
Total outside diam. of the tank = 21.25 "
Multiply by Pi 3.14
Total tank circumference 66.725 "
Divide by the width of the staves / .75 "
Total number of staves around 88.96 round up by .04 to 89 staves
Degrees in circumference of the tank 360
Divide by the number of staves / 89
Degrees per stave used 4.04 deg
Divide by the num. of sides per stave / 2
Deg. to bevel each side of the staves 2.02 deg
Soooooooo I come up with needing to bevel each side of each stave by 2 deg. My goal is getting these shaved this
weekend, and I don’t have enough stave wood to do it again if I get these wrong.
Dave Taylor said:Just do 3 or 4 pieces and check the fit. I'm not a math wiz either but that degree of bevel sounds about right.
Soooooooo I come up with needing to bevel each side of each stave by 2 deg. My goal is getting these shaved this weekend, and I don't have enough stave wood to do it again if I get these wrong.
Dave you got it right except you did not have to add the stave thickness to the calculations. If you are concerned you could cut your bevels a tad more than 2 degrees.
We’re all in agreement, Dave. Rip away!
2 degrees sounds about right. I’d do a few, then check the fit on the tank. More degrees won’t show on the outside, so you would be very safe at 3, or even 4 degrees, but check the 2 degree fit first.
You all missed the mark a bit. 2 degrees is the TOTAL angle between staves. The bevel on each side of a stave needs to be 1/2 of the total angle, or 1 degree. That being said, as has been said above, the additional angle will not show.
Bob C.
Got the tank shell put together today. it’s finally starting to look like a tank.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-42.jpg)
Dadoed the posts like was recommended. Boy this made the joint stout. Good call guys…
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/dave2-8-0/WT-43.jpg)
Spent the afternoon cutting the staves… 100+ what a chore that was… Next up… Staving this thing
Dave Taylor said:It is ??? :lol:
Got the tank shell put together today. it's finally starting to look like a tank.
Dream John, Dream. Where’s your vision. At least its vertical…
A Little help here guys… I’m going to start staveing this thing tomorrow, I’m in uncharted territory. I need your advice, so please chime in on your thoughts. My plan was to use 18 gage brads 1 1/4 in long to fasten to each ring (5) and glue with titebond III at the ring and along the beveled edge of each stave. Now I’m wondering if the brad ( one per stave, @ each ring) might be to much for the staves and cause splitting of the staves, and that with a brad every 3/4" around the ply rings might cause splitting of the ply on the rings. Would 2 23 gage pins x 1" long at each ring, per 3/4" stave be enough? The wounds of the 18 gage brads would need to be covered, hopefully by the bands, as the pins would not leave any wounds. I will listen to wisdom. Jon, Randy, John, David, Steve don’t let me screw this up at this point.
Dave, you won’t know until you try. I agree, the 18 g brad might be a bit much for the stave, but you won’t know until you pull the trigger.
The brads or pins hold the staves in place until the glue dries, after that, it is the glue that does the job, so a 23 g pin would work, as well.
I’d probably go with the 23 g pins, and let the Titebond III do its’ thing.
Dave,
I would agree with using the 23g pins to anchor the staves while the Titebond III cures. Do you plan to install the tank bands right after completing the stave installation? In actual construction of tanks, that was the primary purpose of the bands to secure the ‘staves’. Have you decided what to use for the bands?
Great job with the tank…
Jerry
Dave the 23 guage pins will be enough, but maybe try what I did to put the staves on. Taped several together making sure they were square and then glued to the rings. Clamped with the ratchet style web tie-down straps. Worked for me and no pins either.
You can see a picture in my Water tank build thread.
I advise against gluing the edges of those staves. Eventually the staves will shrink laterally and the glue will give way or the staves will split. Either way it could be messy.
Temporarily, for construction purposes only I’d just glue their flat edges to those plywood rings. Actually, if I could imagine doing the entire job without adhesives at all I would, so think about this…
I wouldn’t count on the glue much as a permanent fix either. I’m not a believer in glue outdoors. I would keep tiny brads in mind as a possible back-up plan. But only after experimenting without them…
To hold everything until the ‘temporary’ glue joints dry, I’d figure on ‘clamping’ the staves around the tank with whatever - a band clamp or three would be perfect, but so would string and a tournequet. Then when all’s dry, I’d install the tank’s bands.
The only misgiving I would have about this bradless and glueless construction would be that at some future point the staves will dry out, loosen, and slip down. But the tank is resting on its base, so they won’t slip down, though they may rattle a bit. I mean after the glue gives way… However, if you have created tank bands that can be tightened occasionally, you’re laughing! I’ve seen and admired some of your other models, Dave; I completely trust that your bands will be fully functional!
I envision a very narrow gap appearing between those staves eventually. I don’t see it as a problem myself, but some guys might. You could supply a spare stave so the owner can jiggle the loose staves around to create a single gap which he can fill by splitting the spare to fit.
Thank for the Input Guys, We’re all in agreement on the 23g pins then… That’s where I’ll go…
I hadn’t thought of the shrinkage factor, But the staves were milled to 3/8 thick from 1/2 stock that had been setting around for several months and air dried for a couple weeks after planeing down, and the humidity here has been in the 10 to 18 % range sense I cut them down to 3/4" wide staves. I think that they are very dry, Now I’m wondering about swelling when this thing gets up in the mountains of Durango.
Randy@ I followed your build on the tank. I only have 2 strap band clamps, there are 5 rings and they are 7" apart, I think that I would need 9 to do the job right, another reason that proves that you can never have to many clamps!
John@ I’m not afraid of the Tightbond III coming apart outdoors. I do wonder about expansion and contraction with that many glue joints, much like a laid up table top, all the grain is in the same direction, and the same wood all the way around, and the ply rings should be dimensionally stable enough.
I’m Plowing ahead with out a clue on the bands… I’d love to have them functional, But not a clue on the tighteners, and the size of the bands or the nuts to tighten them… Any help would be great… I thought about drilling out little blocks of alum. or brass something, Flat or round ?
Keep the thought comming…
Thanks a ton guys…
Dave those are not woodworking band clamps, just the cheap ratchet web tie-downs used to tie down things in your pick-up etc. The Tite-bond III is excellent stuff and won’t fail outdoors.
For the bands…you could use thin brass strip, drill a small hole at either end, bend up the ends a 90 degrees, and use a bolt and nut to tighten. Not exactly prototypical but would work.
For bands, I’d use brass strip, and solder R/C car turnbuckle ends on each end. Might as well make them work!
Have you thought about using zip-ties as aids to installing the staves? You might be able to avoid using any brads or pins that way.
Lay the staves face down on a flat surface, edge to edge.
Then use some masking tape to hold them together.
Wrap the staves around the form after putting some titebond on the form.
Zip-tie to clamp the staves down on the form.
Now the bands are just window dressing.
Remove zip-ties.