Large Scale Central

Who Should Build America’s Rail System?

Prototypes
#1

DISCLAIMER: Don’t go any farther if you are personally offended by some political thoughts about the US rail lines. Hit your back button and ignore this post. “Move along. There is nothing to see here.”

By Marilyn M. Barnewall
June 28, 2009
NewsWithViews.com

Why is high speed rail important to economic recovery? Why should you care about it? There is one primary reason and a large number of secondary ones.

The primary reason: High speed rail service in America will either be built by experts who have ownership positions to protect and the expertise to implement intelligent programs; or, it will be built by government.

READ MORE HERE: http://www.newswithviews.com/Barnewall/marilyn109.htm

#2

David,
The devil is in the details, or lack there of.
Who has offered to build this high speed rail for free?
Who provides the right of way?
Who owns the right of way?
I certainly don’t want some Sultan from Dubai or some foreign dictator controlling our rails.
Ralph

#3

My crazy libertarian friend says, “Trains are too important to leave to the government.”

Over the years, he seems less and less crazy.

#4

Couple (ok, I lied) thoughts:

  1. The US has a LOT longer distance between ‘major population centers’ than anyplace in Europe, or Japan.
  2. BETWEEN those centers is also more valuable real estate that would need to be bought (or stolen through imminent domain) to make your ROW.
  3. People in the EU and Japan are more conditioned to do things ‘in the public good’ than here, where the mantra is "What’s in it for ME?’ If you think the the guys you’re evicting to build the thing will cause problems - Just wait till the NiMBY neighbors start filing lawsuits…
  4. You have the 'Amscrap" mentality to overcome. Both in congress AND with the public who would rather drive anyway, because getting a cab or renting a car at their destination is a royal pain in the a$$ - ESPECIALLY when the rental places are AT THE AIRPORT!

Passenger rail travel SHOULD be publicly funded, just like air and highway. Maybe at a flat passenger mile rate across the board. Nah, never work… it makes sense.

#5

Can we have high speed rail that will let me take my car with me?
If they did something like that I would use it to go to Cali. thing is I need my car there for the time I am there and to rent one for 5 months or to store one for the time I’m not there would be way to costly.

I think maybe the Gov. should find away to help a privat business to high speed. But if the money is not there it will not happen and right now freight is were the money is and not people.

just my thoughts on it.

#6

“Trains are too important to leave to the government.”

I’m in firm agreement with this !

And I do not see any need for “high speed rail”.

If I want to get somewhere quickly I take a plane. Much more practical for quick transportation.

And with the government support for “high speed rail” as part of a “economic stimulus plan” I expect it to be a fiasco.

#7

To Narrow…

To each his own.

I have sworn off flying, for the foreseeable future. The reasons are legion, chief of which is being treated like a criminal, going through those check points. A secondary reason is that it take almost as long to fly somewhere to get to the airport, then go through security. A tertiary reason is those seats that are designed to fit the butt of a slender 4 year old child. After all that, I arrive at my destination having to pee, frazzled, and tired.

A train is a much more civilized way to travel, whether it be the Empire Builder or a Bullet Train. No security checkpoints, yet. Wide, comfortable seats that you can nap in, or very comfortable sleepers for overnight. And, the train stops right down town to let me off. I arrive at my destination rested while traveling by train. It is hard to beat that.

#8

Steve, . . I LOVE travel by train. Just can’t see any reason to spend a fortune on “high speed” lines. I’ve taken the Empire Builder, and loved it. Traveled all over Europe by train. Why be in a hurry ? I’ve caught the “Night Ferry” in Victoria Station London. Woke once to see out the window the French trainmen unchainng the cars when the ferry arrived on the French shore. Woke again as we were rolling into Paris in the morning with coffee brought to me by the steward. Train travel is FANTASTIC. But governement financing for high speed rail lines I see as another financial fiasco about to happen. But that is just my $ .03 worth . . .

#9

We won’t have high speed rail like Japan or Europe.
What will be considered high speed here will be trains running 100-150mph.
Improve right of ways so train travel isn’t slower than automobile travel.
Ralph

#10

Ah … and then one reads the article in TRAINS (Aug 2009, Page14)

To quote:

Fred W. Frailey said:
Railroads have a public relations problem. It's that the public no longer relates to them. Oh, they love passenger trains and Amtrak.
That puts it in the perspective that's at play. ;) :) ;)
#11

I can only assume that the USA and our lack of interest in passenger rail travel has a lot to do with the poor service and irregular schedules (so I am told) of the existing system, except maybe in the metropolitan areas.

Maybe the “build it and they will come” idea has merit. Then again the problem remains of getting to an from the depot. Unfortunatly most cities tore out their efficient and clean trolley systems in the 1950’s in favor of the (unionized) bus service.

#12
David Hill said:
....... Unfortunatly most cities tore out their efficient and clean trolley systems in the 1950's in favor of the (unionized) bus service.
Yep, "Big Oil" did a big job.

BTW most (all?) of the transit systems that I’m aware of are unionized, regardless of the mix (Bus, Streetcars, Subway and/or Trolley).

#13
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
David Hill said:
....... Unfortunatly most cities tore out their efficient and clean trolley systems in the 1950's in favor of the (unionized) bus service.
Yep, "Big Oil" did a big job.

BTW most (all?) of the transit systems that I’m aware of are unionized, regardless of the mix (Bus, Streetcars, Subway and/or Trolley).


Hmmmm. I thought it was General Motors and Firestone that bought up the trolley lines and then closed them.

#14

My grandmother (1897 - 19840 always told us it was the Teamsters that led to the demise of the trolley lines. I still can remember riding on a trolley as a young sprout in the Lehigh Valley, PA.

#15
Steve Featherkile said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
David Hill said:
....... Unfortunatly most cities tore out their efficient and clean trolley systems in the 1950's in favor of the (unionized) bus service.
Yep, "Big Oil" did a big job.

BTW most (all?) of the transit systems that I’m aware of are unionized, regardless of the mix (Bus, Streetcars, Subway and/or Trolley).


Hmmmm. I thought it was General Motors and Firestone that bought up the trolley lines and then closed them.

I know GM killed light rail in Detroit. Ending light rail and promoting automobiles also led to the downfall of the City of Detroit. If you need a car anyway, may as well move to the suburbs.
Ralph

#16
David Hill said:
My grandmother (1897 - 19840 always told us it was the Teamsters that led to the demise of the trolley lines. I still can remember riding on a trolley as a young sprout in the Lehigh Valley, PA.
Harrruuuuummmmmmph! Well!...... My father said it was GM and Firestone.

What is trump this time? Anyone know? :stuck_out_tongue: :lol: :smiley:

I guess there were a lot of villains.

Edited to remove insanity.

#17

You guys really don’t think it was just the natural evolution that people wanted more freedom to travel when they wanted to, instead of at the dictation of a schedule? No fight here, just observation. Yes, we all like trains and I personally really like the old Interurbans, but I want to travel when I want to travel and how I want to travel. I’ll ride trains for fun. I’ll ride planes when I have to. But I drive when and where I want to and spend my money how I want to. So if some private individual or group wants to build a high speed rail system or a passenger system without my money, that goes where I want to go, at a time, at a speed and convienience that fits my needs, I may use it.

#18

I’m sure many people would have migrated to the automobile for the freedom it afforded.
However, some people who had no need or desire for a car, needed one after the rail systems shut down.
Today, in many large urban areas with rail service, many people still have no cars.
Ralph

#19

The trolleys did make living in the urban areas more convenient. Their demise may have been a combination of what our grandparents told us.

Either way, I’d guess a private run rail system would be less encumbered and better able to change to accommodate the public than a overly expensive public run system. IMHO.

#20
Steve Featherkile said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
David Hill said:
....... Unfortunatly most cities tore out their efficient and clean trolley systems in the 1950's in favor of the (unionized) bus service.
Yep, "Big Oil" did a big job.

BTW most (all?) of the transit systems that I’m aware of are unionized, regardless of the mix (Bus, Streetcars, Subway and/or Trolley).


Hmmmm. I thought it was General Motors and Firestone that bought up the trolley lines and then closed them.

It was, but don’t forget Standard oil.

JN