Inspired by the Eirie Railroad articulated camelback banking locomotives, this will be a narrow-gauge behemoth. Idea commenced with leftover offcuts from the cab of the Baldwin Fairlie project. With no paint onhand to finish the Fairlie, I took what material was available and started on this project. Being a largish locomotive, I decided to give the fireman a luxury cab with windows, no less! Wheel layout will be 2-6-6-0, comprising a fixed rear driver set with an articulated drive set mounted off the front of the rear set in a prototypical mallet fashion. I am aiming for ten-foot minimum diameter, hopefully (?). I used this method with my 4-4-4-0 Mallet and achieved the ten foot minimum. To overcome a balance problem corrected in the early stages with the previous Mallet project, I added fishing sinkers (lead weights) to the lower portion of the Wooten firebox, to compensate for the overhanging boiler structure forward of the rear driver set forward axle. To ensure the forward driver set correctly exits a curve, no structure weight must exert any force on the front drive. The early LGB Mikados were infamous for exiting curves with their split drives crossed up, travelling crabwise down the straight track following a curved section. By allowing the forward drive set to act like a single truck, then the drive set will track correctly. This does mean that the only traction weight on the front truck is the weight of the drive set alone, thus limiting traction from this set. This is a necessary trade off. The photograph shows the extended boiler section, with rear cab and Wooten firebox fitted. Also fitted is the rear drive block. The cab will fit between the pressure dome and the rear sand dome. I had hoped to fit a trailing truck, but this would have extended the length of the locomotive another several inches, impacting on minimum operating diameter.
Good night that’s gonna be a beast.
Tim,
I love your projects!
I’m getting inspired.
I’ve been threatening to turn an Aristo Mallet into one of those huge Mexican NG mallets.
John,
I have a million and one ideas, but alas, no more spare Annies! I have reached rock bottom in supplies so this will be the last new creation for a while (or until Annies drop down in price again). I have a partially completed Hudson configuration and a ‘ten-wheeler’ under the knife, but to complete both will need to purchase new Anniversaries.
Camelbacks are unusual and thus desirable for me to model. My 2-8-0 camelback gets the occasional run, but due cab placement, always looks a little comical to me. I like to be challenged by a project, starting with a simple idea and then solving problems as I progress.
I really like the way camelbacks look, especially some CNJ 4-6-0.
But I have no desire whatsoever to be involved in crew of one, not much of a way there to communicate with each other to coordinate your efforts.
Forrest,
it is no wonder the railroad commissioners banned their usage. I have viewed many photographs of them and communication and access to the fireman are non-existent. Even access to the opposite side of the cab is a gymnastic exercise across the boiler, should this be necessary. The fireman was totally exposed to the elements, this is why I provided him with a slightly larger cab than normal. A Wooten firebox should have two access doors to manage the wide grate area. This is impratical and so I stick to a single door opening.
I just did a few practical experiments and found that to negotiate a ten-foot minimum diameter curve, I will need 35 mm swing, either side of centre at the saddle area. This will be a major hurdle to solve as I like to use the saddle area of the smokebox to support the forward drive when the model is lifted. This takes the strain off the rear pivot mount during lifting. In operation the forward 'handling mount' takes no loading. This may require me to have a 4-6-6-0 drive as I need to disguise the 'swing' mounting. I could simply dispense with the forward swing mount and take care when lifting the model. This would be the simpler alternative.
Tim Brien said:
… it is no wonder the railroad commissioners banned their usage.
Not use, production. Contrary to popular belief, they were never actually “outlawed”. The Interstate Commerce Commission only banned further construction of Camelbacks in 1918. Those already in service continued to run right up until nearly the end of steam. The last revenue run of a Mother Hubbard locomotive on a common carrier was an excursion pulled by Central of New Jersey’s 4-6-0 #774 from Jersey City to Jim Thorpe, PA and back on September 24, 1955 (I’m purposely not counting the #4 at Strasburg, Pa in tourist service) The largest mother hubbard, the Erie 0-8-8-0, would make a stunning model, anybody got a Big Boy they are willing to let me carve up?
(http://scotlawrence.smugmug.com/photos/760223439_6dfDV-O.jpg)
Or maybe the smallest from a LGB Porter?
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/0-4-0_Camelback_Dewey_small.jpg)
Personally, I’m thinking a Winans Camel as a “must build” sooner or later… totally different beast, but many do confuse them.
(http://www.railarchive.net/centprog/r_winans.jpg)
(http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/WINANS5.JPG)
(http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/WINANS4.JPG)
(http://www.trainweb.org/rradventures/images/1999-10-16_BO_Museum/abc.jpg)
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/steamnut1917/civil%20war/ross-winans.jpg)
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/steamnut1917/civil%20war/bo-2002-24.jpg)
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/steamnut1917/civil%20war/bo-2002-25.jpg)
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/steamnut1917/civil%20war/Cameldrawing.jpg)
Mik,
all excellent information. I do not use the correct term ‘mother hubbard’ as most simply refer to this type of locomotive as generically ‘camelbacks’. I agree that a model of the Eirie 0-8-8-0 banking engines would be very desirable. They drool muscle.
Cool project, what an awesome beast that will be when finished!
Mik, thanks for posting all those great pics! The Winan Camels are such weird locos. With that large “cabin” on top, they remind me of those elephants that were used for travel by VIPs in India.
Hey Mik make your 0-8-8-0 out of two Aristo-Craft Mikado drive units. Alot cheaper then a big boy.
Forward drive fitted. Will work down to ten-foot minimum diameter, but is very ugly doing so (smokebox is almost outside of the cylinders). I had to shave off the lower portion of the smokebox facia to clear the steam cylinders on full deflection. This was commonly done on prototype models. Overall designation now will be 4-6-6-0.
I am compromising the steam dome position. As it will be a ‘simple’ articulated (non compound), then I do not feel that the dome has to align the rear cylinder centreline. Relocating the dome (while feasible), would compromise the integrity of the boiler shell by having to remove the existing dome and rebuilding the body strength. While the forward boiler shell does not take any operating loads, it does take the weight of the drive when the locomotive is lifted. I had to devise a telescoping slotted mounting to allow the forward drive to swing plus be able to support the drive when lifted.
I now need to fine tune the swing of the forward drive to get maximum swing without contacting bodywork. Hopefully, I will be able to use a full size Annie cast weight block (suitably modified) on the forward drive. This will mean that the drive will actually be able to provide traction.
Simplified valve gear will be used (Stephenson) for two reasons. Firstly, cost as the two donor locomotives were Stephenson equipped and secondly, there is insufficient clearance under the bodywok to fit the Walschaert valve gear to the forward drive. If I had two full sets then I would take the time to fit, but it would involve raising the height of the locomotive body. While it would be nice to have full Walschaerts, it is not cost effective to me. As it stands now, I need tio purchase two more Annies just to complete existing projects! I only use Anniversaries for my projects and will not purchase the lesser detailed (and cheaper) Big Hauler drives.
So far the project has been enjoyable and has caused me to stir up the grey matter a few times to sort out some technical issues. Ideally, this length locomotive is more suited to 16 - 20 foot curves.
Progress to date. Sorted out front and rear drives. Photograph shows drive swing (overhang) on ten-foot diameter curve (not a pretty sight!)
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/tim_brien/_forumfiles/1zmha.JPG)
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/tim_brien/_forumfiles/1zmhb.JPG)
Tim Brien said:Hmm, I dunno, have seen photos of N&W and C&O articulateds working coal branches and looking about like that on some of the curves.
Photograph shows drive swing (overhang) on ten-foot diameter curve (not a pretty sight!)
Will say again, good night that thing’s a beast!
Looks a heck of a lot better than the MTH Big Boy looks on 8’ diameter curves…
Ten-foot is the absolute minimum diameter this will negotiate. The structure in the saddlebox area retains the forward end of the drive when lifted. If this was omitted, then possibly nine foot could be attempted, but then the forward drive would be unsupported when handled, putting strain on the rear pivot mounting.
When completed, loco should weight around 12-13 pound.
Tim Brien said:Will say again, [i]again[/i], good night that thing's a beast! :D Have this vision of it pulling your garden shed half a block down the road.
When completed, loco should weight around 12-13 pound.
This will be a locomotive only its designer will love.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/tim_brien/_forumfiles/1zmhd.JPG)
hmmm, you need to do something with the tender. It doesn’t really ‘fit’ the theme te engine is trying to set. Maybe just make it an inch taller and sculpt the ‘hungry boards’ to look like sheetmetal?
(http://scotlawrence.smugmug.com/photos/760223439_6dfDV-O.jpg)
Is it to be a simple artic or a mallet? If mallet you’ll probably want to get some 3/4" pvc pipe to fatten the front set. Just cut it to length, cut out about 2/5, feather the outside seam, and it snaps right in place…no glue required.
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/steamnut1917/P4080001.jpg)
Hmmm, I never really noticed how far ahead of center the cab was on those before…
(http://members.trainweb.com/milepost51/rrmem/2600erecting.jpg)
Last thought. The big Wooten equipped beasts often had two firebox doors, but I rarely see this modeled. Might be something to consider?
(http://www.rgusrail.com/album/mdboroundhouse/cnj_592_13.jpg)
Mik,
I have already mentioned the use of one firebox door only and that it will be a ‘simple’ articulated. The Wooten firebox did prototypically use two doors due the large grate area required to burn the anthracite coal. Standard gauge locomotives could employ the full width of their gauge, something the narrow-gauge locomotives could not, thus, I stuck with one door only for simplicity.
My version is a narrow-gauge version (although there never was a narrow gauge mother hubbard to my knowledge) and is not an attempt at a standard-gauge locomotive. It was the articulation of the prototype that attracted me, nothing else. Tender is merely a prop for the photograph.
Sorry I was trying to help… and I really missed the firedoor part, all 3 times.
Anyway, re-reading everything again, I will offer this idea, then shut up and watch your great build unfold. – Since you don’t want to load boiler weight on the front engine set, and I saw you’re putting an Annie weight on top, but how much weight can you stuff IN it (to help balance it? My 2-4-4-2 spins the front drive so easily that I had the break down and put a traction tire wheel on it… but then you might have to fit pvc pipe the full length inside the boiler shell for enough strength… nevermind…