Large Scale Central

Wheel sets

Modeling Rolling stock
#1

Ok so we have been tossing all sorts of things out there in this switch discussion and one of those is wheels and their ability to run through switches. So I have some questions on wheel sets. I am planning on running all RC/battery power. Since I will be running 1:20.3 and small rolling stock like 30 ft flats and box cars and will be scratch building the vast majority of it all, I want to standardize my wheel.

So when I am looking at wheel sets I am wondering what should I be looking for? First off how are they measured. When a wheel s said to be 31mm I am assuming that this is the tread diameter and not the flange diameter? What is a prototypical wheel for 1880’s narrow gauge 1:20.3. The ones that came with the Bachmann 10 wheeler tender look to big to me. The prototype of the mogul I am building calls for 24" wheels on the tender which is roughly a 30mm scale wheel. So I am assuming a 31mm wheel is what I would want. I am pretty sure this is what Kevin Strong told me he uses. Would that be an appropriate wheel for my rolling stock as well?

Then there is metal versus plastic. I just think metal would be better, well because its metal, but is that true? Is there a reason to avoid plastic?

Then what about Bachmann, Sierra valley and ???

While I admit to being a cheap SOB I don’t think with the limited amount of rolling stock that I would build at any one time I think I can let myself spend a little on the wheels. I would prefer the finer scale wheels that would be prototypical for my RR.

#2

There is an excellent article by Kevin Strong on this subject in the June 2015 (latest) issue of Garden Railways magazine.

#3

Oh boy, your really opening a can of worms…
Flange, tread depth, and wheel size are all variables that vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
33" and 36" wheels are common today, so I don’t know what would work for 100 years ago. Kevin Strong might have the best answer for that one.

I’d say pick one company, and standardize in that particular one.

#4

Craig Townsend said:
Oh boy, your really opening a can of worms… Flange, tread depth, and wheel size are all variables that vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. 33" and 36" wheels are common today, so I don’t know what would work for 100 years ago. Kevin Strong might have the best answer for that one. I’d say pick one company, and standardize in that particular one.

I seem to open all kinds of worm cans. It is a given that I will sick with one manufacturer and one size once I determine what that is. One nice thing about that is that even if I do buy rolling stock the wheels can always be changed out.

#5

Devon, yes many narrow gauge cars used smaller 24 inch wheels, but a smaller wheel in a larger scale might end up about the same as what most people use anyway. Semi-scale wheels look better, and fine-scale look really good, but the finer the tread width, the more accurate the track needs to be so the car doesn’t fall between the rails. If you are hand-laying track, then you just have to be careful.

Since I am a cheap…person, I usually use Bachmann metal wheels. I can get them properly gauged, and even fix the ones that wobble, and sometimes a Bachmann wheel-set will wobble. The higher end sets usually do not have the wobble issue. As for what manufacturer you should choose, I am sure you will get many opinions/suggestions/answers on that.

As for metal versus plastic, that is also a topic of discussion. Many folks prefer metal wheels because they add weight down low, that improves tracking. They tend to roll better, and that improves tracking. They don’t pick up the crud like plastic wheels do. And they don’t leave plastic residue on the hot rails outside in the summer time. Although, since (I thought) you were planning on going battery power, the power pick up problems caused by that residue will not be an issue for you.

#6

This subject was throughly beaten to death over on the 7/8ths Lounge. It is still on going. Drop over and take a look. It is free.

Noel

#7

Devon,

if you really are a cheap SOB, then go and barter or beg for LGB plastic wheels.

the easy question answered first: why LGB? - because they are round and good plastic.

why plastic?

two main reasons against plastic are, that they leave some black goo on the rails, and that they are very light.

well, if you go battery, you don’t ned conductivity.

and if you will build the rolling stock yourself, you can incorporate as much weight into the chassis, as you want.

i’ve got LGB plastic wheelsets, that wer fabricated in '69 or '70… and after 45 years of running they are still round.

so i think, they will also hold for the last five or ten years, that i will be in the hobby.

cheap was the keyword for my answer.

#8

Thanks David. Yes battery power so not worried about any conductivity issues. I am going to use LLagas Track (at east that’s what I am thinking at this point a year from now when I actually might get to lay track you never know) and their narrow gauge tie strips. The hand laying will be reserved to switches. A semi-scale wheel is also fine. While I want to be as prototypical as practical, Steve is really convincing me that when it comes to the operation I really need to be practial and do what works. Outdoors is unforgiving and so I will except a semi prototypical wheel if it means I will spend less time trying to make the trains go around the track.

#9

Korm Kormsen said:

Devon,

if you really are a cheap SOB, then go and barter or beg for LGB plastic wheels.

the easy question answered first: why LGB? - because they are round and good plastic.

why plastic?

two main reasons against plastic are, that they leave some black goo on the rails, and that they are very light.

well, if you go battery, you don’t ned conductivity.

and if you will build the rolling stock yourself, you can incorporate as much weight into the chassis, as you want.

i’ve got LGB plastic wheelsets, that wer fabricated in '69 or '70… and after 45 years of running they are still round.

so i think, they will also hold for the last five or ten years, that i will be in the hobby.

cheap was the keyword for my answer.

I better clarify “cheap”. I am NOT looking to do things with the least amount of expense. However, the point at which the law of diminishing returns kicks in for me is lower than many. If the best wheel costs $100.00 for a set of four and a decent wheel that most people agree runs well and looks decent is $30.00 for a set of four, and a crappy set that looks terrible and wont stay on the track is $15.00 dollars for a set of four then I will spend the $30 to get a good working wheel. I don’t want to fight garbage, but I have a limited amount to spend (like everyone) and if I can have three wheel sets for the price of one well that gives me three cars to pull behind my train instead of one.

Maybe frugal is a better word than cheap.

#10

No matter what driver/ wheel set you settle for, you need this guy to paint the centers…

It’s the details bud…

#11

I run anything metal. I have bachmann, lgb, ams, aristo, sierra valley, San val, etc etc etc. They all work fine. They key is to keep them in gauge and lubed. I only use metal, why? I dunno I just do.
Terry

#12

Devon, I would not even suggest junk. About half of my rolling stock is riding on Bachmann metal wheels. I used to be able to put a set under my cars for $8.33 , now its about $10 a car. If they are properly gauged, and the odd wobbly one fixed, they work just fine. I also have Aristo, USA, and some unmarked ones I got in trade. I even have a few of the pricey LGB ones.

None of my wheels are semi-scale nor fine-scale, since the Aristo track I run on isn’t all that consistent with its gauge. Once the wheels are properly gauged, and the ends lubed just a bit, they roll and track just fine (all of my wheels).

I am with you, to a point. I don’t want junk, but what I care about most is running. So what if my rails are over-sized (code 332)? So what if my wheels have tread that is enormous, compared to what it would be if it were in scale? Running around my yard, I am not eyeball to wheel with my trains, I just want them to run.

#13

I don’t know that you can go too far wrong with any of the metal wheels on the market. I’ve been buying Bachmann’s 31mm wheels because I–too–am “frugal.” (Yeah, that’s it…) Seriously, though, I’ve gotten them on sale for as little as $11 per card (4 axles). Check with Star Hobbies. I forget what he was selling cases of them for, but it was a very good price. Aesthetically, the flanges are a bit thicker than those on Accucraft and Bachmann “spectrum” stuff (and those from Sierra Valley), but they’re not objectionable in the shadows of the cars. Bachmann also sells their “Spectrum” freight car wheels as separate items. They’re a bit pricier than the “Big Hauler” wheels, a touch larger in diameter (33mm?) with a more “scale” flange.

I also like Sierra Valley’s wheels. Their unfinished steel wheels are likewise aimed at “frugal” modelers. Like the Bachmann “Spectrum” and Accucraft wheels, they’ve got a finer flange, but still large enough to operate reliably outdoors. They come in a variety of diameters to suit your modeling tastes. They’ve also got a good reputation for operation. I’ve got a set in one of my passenger cars, and they’ve given me nothing to complain about.

Over the years, I’ve also used metal wheels from San-Val, Jay-bee, USA Trains, and a few other manufacturers whose names I don’t remember. Some had really odd flange profiles that occasionally gave me fits, but for the most part, I can’t think of any I wouldn’t use again if I had to.

I will say that I’m a fan of metal wheels over plastic. They add weight to the car, and I’ve found the heavier wheels tend to track through switches better. If you’re scratchbuilding your own rolling stock, you may be surprised how light a scratchbuilt car can actually be. My scratchbuilt combine is the lightest of all my passenger cars. The extra weight in the wheels will add weight, and keep the center of gravity low.

From a prototypical standpoint, most 3’ gauge lines used 24" or 26" diameter wheels. Early on, you’d find 20" diameter wheels on the lighter rolling stock. The ET&WNC used a 28" diameter wheel. Coupler centerlines were usually equal to the diameter of the common wheels used. (On standard gauge lines, it used to be that 33" was the de facto standard diameter for freight cars, and 36" was used for passenger cars. I believe some modern freight cars may use 36" wheels today, but I’m not sure if they’ve replaced 33" wheels or are just more common.

Later,

K

#14

Kevin, I was pretty sure you told me you were using the 31mm Bachmann metal wheels. Sounds like others are happy or at least not displeased with them. I was also looking at the Sierra Valley bare metal wheels and they are not unreasonable in my opinion, similar price to the Bachmanns.

David, I do appreciate your input. I think you and I are the same cheap budget minded modelers. I don’t think you run junk but I also think you like to get the best bang for your buck.

Thanks for the advice guys.

#15

Devon, yea, I do want the best bang for my buck. As for Bachamnn metal wheels, I think they have a more accurate face profile then many of the other wheels out there. And of curse, I paint my wheels to look a bit rusty.

#16

What are peoples opinions of Gary Raymond’s wheels. His non plated wheels are the same price as Sierra Valley’s and about the same as Bachmann (average price on Ebay). I had talked about him awhile back wen looking for wheels for my tender and he recommended the non plated ones so they would darken and rust up naturally and still ave the tread shiny like a prototype wheel (seems logical).

F 24 UL (1.180" tread diameter) Same as above in UNPLATED STEEL. $4.95

http://www.audiomobiles.com/trains/pricelist.html

#17

Devon, the reviews and comments I have heard, his wheels are good wheels. But at $4.95 per axle, they are a bit more then I want to spend.

#18

David,

The Sierra Valley ones are the same price. Now Bachmann may be another story. At $5.00 and axle that is $20 a car. Average price on Ebay for the Bahmann is about that unless I am looking at the wrong thing. Now I do know that you and Kevin are not paying that for them. You said 10 bucks right? Where are you getting them for that price? At half the price and everyone seems to like them I am all for it.

#19

Devon, I buy them by the case (6 cars worth) from Starr Hobby at the East Coast Large Scale Train Show. Yea, I have to laugh at the per car cost I sometimes see on-line. What I see on-line makes them almost as expensive as the better quality sets that are out there.

#20

David Maynard said:

Devon, I buy them by the case (6 cars worth) from Starr Hobby at the East Coast Large Scale Train Show. Yea, I have to laugh at the per car cost I sometimes see on-line. What I see on-line makes them almost as expensive as the better quality sets that are out there.

Well that’s what was thinking. At 17-22 bucks a set for B mann I would likely buy Gary’s or sierra valley. But at 10 bucks I would buy the B-mann. I sent Starr Hobby an email. Both you and Kevin mention them. $60 bucks for six sets sounds good to me.