Kevin, if there was a “like” button in the garden railways magazine, I would have clicked it for your wheels and rails article.
So a big thank you to David M and Kevin Strong. I contacted Star Hobbies (don’t email them, call them) and they sell the cases of big hauler 31mm metal wheels for $65.00 a case of 6. So for 11-12 bucks a set this is the route I shall go. I am in need of 8 sets to get the fleet running and this is about the only practical way for me to get that done.
So thanks for turning me onto Star Hobbies.
Devon, I am glad that you were able to get that kind of price from them through a phone order. Thats almost as good as the show price. Good deal. As with all wheel sets, check the gauge before you use them. The Bachmann wheels are much better on gauge then there were 10 years ago, but it doesn’t hurt to double check anyway.
I like the Bachmann wheels, the face profile of them appears to be more prototypically correct (to me) then some others I have seen and used.
David Maynard said:
Devon, I am glad that you were able to get that kind of price from them through a phone order. Thats almost as good as the show price. Good deal. As with all wheel sets, check the gauge before you use them. The Bachmann wheels are much better on gauge then there were 10 years ago, but it doesn’t hurt to double check anyway.
I like the Bachmann wheels, the face profile of them appears to be more prototypically correct (to me) then some others I have seen and used.
Should they need it how do you regauge them?
Empirically obvious to the most casual observer, Grasshopper.
Steve Featherkile said:
Empirically obvious to the most casual observer, Grasshopper.
Obvious when I get them??? I am assuming that you can move them in or out on the axle?
this way:
or the JJ way:
Or my way:
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/misc-train-stuff/tools-aamp-accessories
Greg
I’ve found that the Bachmann wheels do not need special tools to re-gauge. I just twist them in or out, as needed.
OK so it really is that easy. I was expecting something a little more techy than that but I am tracking now.
On my small equipment, I’ve replaced the original wheels with Bachmann’s 24mm wheels. Like the look!
Steve Featherkile said:
I’ve found that the Bachmann wheels do not need special tools to re-gauge. I just twist them in or out, as needed.
I don’t have fancy tools either. If I can’t twist them to move, I hold against the bench edge with open needle nose and tap the axle end with a tack hammer.
The one tool you do need is either a dial caliper or a wheel gauge. I prefer the caliper as it has other uses.
Dial calipers I have.
Dick,
I really debated the 24mm wheels over the 31mm (still am, I haven’t puled the trigger yet). Could you do me a favor and post a pic of what the 24mm wheels look like under your cars. I am gauging by advice from others building in the similar era and style. Also I know what a 31mm wheel looks like under my cars (the Bachmann 10 wheeler tender wheels are 31mm right?) and it does look a touch big to me. I am just afraid that on a 30’ car, even 1880’s wood, would loo to small.
Back to back spacing should be 1.575"…
Craig Townsend said:
Back to back spacing should be 1.575"…
Now this maybe a really dumb question but is that for the Bachmann Big Hauler metal wheels. The reason I ask is that Kevin Strong explains that the Bachmann flanges are thicker than say Sierra Valley or even the B-mann spectrum wheels. I assume this would effect the B to B spacing. Isn’t the goal to get the outside of the flange somewhere near gauge (45mm) so that it rides just inside the rails. Now I realize I am over thinking this probably. The real question will be is how much play should there be in the gauge so as to account for poor track work. I mean if they are to narrow they fall in between the rails and if to wide will want to ride up on the rail. I would think no matter what wheel is used it should be set to the proper gauge, by that I mean where the front face of the flange is. This would cause the B to B to be different on various wheel sets depending on flange thickness. Am I splitting hairs? Are you specifically referring to B-Mann big hauler metal wheels?
Hoo boy, you are opening a can of worms.
If the flanges are within NMRA / G1MRA specs, then setting the right back to back will get you the right gauge.
One reason some people focus on the back to back, besides being WAY easier to measure, is that if you set it properly, and you have properly gauged switches with proper flangeways, trains work MUCH better.
You need both to happen, you cannot have properly gauged wheelsets and sloppy switches. (hidden in this knowledge is the reason LGB did flange-bearing frogs).
You will get a lot of opinions here, and I had a pretty famous fight with Kevin Strong on this (which I am sure is still not resolved).
I run really long trains on pretty tight curves and have very high reliability. What I do is beyond what most people “need”, but the ability to leave a 45 car train running for hours unattended with a mainline with lots of switches and 3.4% grade speaks for itself.
I spend a lot of time studying, and then talking to real railroad people to see how the prototype really works, then adapting that to our models. I don’t use flange bearing frogs, nor overly deep flanges.
A little suggested reading:
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/track-aamp-switches/turnouts-in-general
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/track-aamp-switches/turnouts-in-general
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/track-aamp-switches/track-and-wheel-standards
Regards, Greg
Devon,
If you ran tangents you could push the flanges out to the rail heads, but if you want to turn forget it!
The full size RR rarely have flanges that touch and where they do on tight curves there are all sorts of lubricators to lessen wear. In principle the wheels are tapered (angled) and the weight of the car keeps it centered, seeking the lowest position on both wheels.
The taper of the wheel also helps over come different radius between rails; as the track goes right; under the left wheel the rail moves towards the flange which is the wider taper and the right wheel moves towards the outer rim (on the inside of the turn) which is the smaller taper. So instead of one wheel speeding up to make up for the longer run, it uses the bigger part of the wheel. Simple!? No???
John
Greg,
I know this is a hot bed topic for some. I have had a few conversations with Kevin on wheel standards and I know this is an important topic for oyu as well. But how does someone like me apply the information. There has to come a point where the information moves from academic to practical application. What will work for my RR and what will work in most cases reasonably well on most other peoples layouts. What is the happy medium. Where does one set the gauge or B to B on Bachmann Big Hauler Wheels so they get around most peoples track most of the time.
This is actually an important issue for me as a member of a club I want to take my toys around and play. Not to mention I have no layout and wont for the better part of two or three years. Now when I build my RR I can choose to build it well and follow the great advice I get here.
With most things there, at least for me, needs to be compromise. If I was to have a healthy modeling budget, and only ran my equipment on my track then I could see paying close attention to one standard or school of thought. But I have a limited budget (read cheaper Bachmann wheel sets as opposed to finer scale more expensive ones) and want my equipment to be reasonably reliable wherever it goes.
John Caughey said:
Devon,
If you ran tangents you could push the flanges out to the rail heads, but if you want to turn forget it!
The full size RR rarely have flanges that touch and where they do on tight curves there are all sorts of lubricators to lessen wear. In principle the wheels are tapered (angled) and the weight of the car keeps it centered, seeking the lowest position on both wheels.
The taper of the wheel also helps over come different radius between rails; as the track goes right; under the left wheel the rail moves towards the flange which is the wider taper and the right wheel moves towards the outer rim (on the inside of the turn) which is the smaller taper. So instead of one wheel speeding up to make up for the longer run, it uses the bigger part of the wheel. Simple!? No???
John
I understand all that. I realize the flanges can’t be tight but I also realize that they can’t be to sloppy as to let a wheel fall between the tracks.
We are getting way deeper into theory than I had intended. My question still remains that I have been told with the Bachmann wheels i might have to regauge a few of them. Where does one set them.
Just give me a dang number (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)where are people setting the bachmann wheel gauge at so it works.
Devon Sinsley said:
Greg,
I know this is a hot bed topic for some. I have had a few conversations with Kevin on wheel standards and I know this is an important topic for oyu as well. But how does someone like me apply the information. There has to come a point where the information moves from academic to practical application. What will work for my RR and what will work in most cases reasonably well on most other peoples layouts. What is the happy medium. Where does one set the gauge or B to B on Bachmann Big Hauler Wheels so they get around most peoples track most of the time.
This is actually an important issue for me as a member of a club I want to take my toys around and play. Not to mention I have no layout and wont for the better part of two or three years. Now when I build my RR I can choose to build it well and follow the great advice I get here.
With most things there, at least for me, needs to be compromise. If I was to have a healthy modeling budget, and only ran my equipment on my track then I could see paying close attention to one standard or school of thought. But I have a limited budget (read cheaper Bachmann wheel sets as opposed to finer scale more expensive ones) and want my equipment to be reasonably reliable wherever it goes.
Pay attention, Grasshopper, the answer has already been given to you. 1.575 inches is the B to B measurement.
Craig Townsend said: Back to back spacing should be 1.575"…
Yes Steve He did give me a number and now I think that number makes sense in light of my follow up question. I was concerned with whether or not that was true of any and all wheel sets. But I can see now due to flange ways in switches that back to back is more of the governing factor than gauge is. So the answer to my follow up question would be yes this applies to any wheel set regardless of flange thickness because its the flangeway that will get you and that is where the back to back measurement comes into play.
Got it set wheel back to back at 1.575…check.