Large Scale Central

What's wrong with my math?

On the back cover of the October 2014 Garden Railways Magazine, Bachmann has an ad for Code 332 brass track. Get a load of the MSRP price per foot, or is my math all wrong?

1’ Straight, 12 pieces = 12’ MSRP = $162/box = $13.50/foot (egad!)

3’ Straight, 12 pieces = 36’ MSRP = $415/box = $11.53/foot

5’ Straight, 6 pieces = 30’ MSRP = $340/box = $11.33/foot

4’ Curved, 12 pieces = 48’ MSRP = $162/box = $3.38/foot (See Bob’s note below!!)

5’ Curved, 12 pieces = 60’ MSRP = $215/box = $3.58/foot

8’ Curved, 16 pieces = 128’ MSRP = $330/box = $2.58/foot (what a deal!)

$2.58/foot is the lowest for Code 332 track I’ve seen in years, whereas $13.50/foot is the most I’ve ever seen, especially for little 1’ sections. What is going on here? Is my math incorrect? Is Bachman having an overstock sale? Is THEIR mathematician mistaken? Would a good rail bender adequately straighten those $2.58/ft 8’ straights? If so, get 'em while their hot!

That 8’ is more than likely 8’ diameter, not how long the piece is.

Yeah, Bob, I guess you’re right, so that would only increase the price per foot of those curved sections. Wow! I’m glad I built most of my layout when Code 332 brass track could be had for $3.50 to $4.00/foot.

You can not multiply the diameter times the number of track pieces!!!

A 4 foot diameter curve is a 1 foot piece of track giving 12 feet, not 48 feet of track.

5 foot diameter is more like a 15 inch track piece giving 15 feet of track.

πd, or 3.14159 times the diameter will yield the circumference of a circle. So Dan is right.

it’s not 12 pieces of 4 foot long tracks for a 4’ curved circle…

it’s 12 pieces of track making a 4’ diameter circle, and the length of those pieces is the circumference of the circle, equal to PI times the diameter, 3.14 * 4 = 12.56 feet total… each piece is a bit over a foot long.

In the first case pricing on the 4’ diameter circle, you are paying $12.90 a foot for track. (162 / 12.56)

Greg

I also saw that ad on the back of GR and thought WOW I’m glad I don’t need to buy track!
The math aside Track Ain’t Cheap. It never has been when you think about it that is why most of mine is preowned.

Great way to promote the LS part of the hobby…without track there is no hobby…Although; anyone that thins they have to pay B’mann’s MSRP should do a bit of research…seldom is that the price that you have to pay, if you look around and check with reputable dealers. Most often the actual prices are around -40% of MSRP

Thanks, guys, for correcting my math. I was watching “Criminal Minds” at the time I read the ad and so wasn’t thinking clearly. Bob caught my error right away and straightened me out, but the point I was trying to make, and Fred and Todd saw it, too - is that track has gone expensive, even 40% of MSRP would still work out to around $6.50 a foot. Egad!

Fred and Art, the discussion of insane track prices kept coming up on the other site from time to time. I purchased my stainless Aristo track back in 2001 and 2002, back when it was still a new product. I felt that I shouldn’t skimp on track, for without good track and good track-work, I cant play trains. But I wonder if I would get into the hobby at today’s track prices.

Since I built the railroad, I have picked up some more track, for repairs and possible future expansion. But I have to pick it up when I see it for a good price, and in person (usually), since track is heavy in quantity, and the costs of shipping have to be figured into the price.

The question that was asked on the other site, and I have to ask, is; How many folks do not join our hobby simple because track is so expensive? I know the cost of metals has gone up, but it is getting kind of prohibitive. Scott Polk had a “deal” for folks starting a garden railroad. He would sell them track at some kind of discount. But the costs still has to give some folks pause.

This a hobby that requires time and money and so is populated mainly by retirees I guess. I’m often asked the cost by young fathers whose kids are mesmerized by our trains when we run them publicly. They usually shake their heads and walk away when they hear the price of track and do the math (correctly), and they admit they probably don’t have the necessary time at this stage of their lives. The kids return to their electronic game toys.

All this raises another question: What will happen to all YOUR track when your railroad is ultimately dismantled, because you know it will be someday. I know the brass rail is probably going to last longer than I, so at the rate of price increase, I’ll be putting it in my will.

Track has NEVER been cheap IMHO. But it was, at least affordable to new folks starting in the hobby. This was back in the mid 1980’s when I started in LS. But what really “killed” the hobby was the extraordinary increase in track prices in the early part of the 2000’s. High track prices is what finally turned me to battery and wireless power and using aluminum code 250 rail. You have to do what you have to do. The obscene prices on track now, especially brass and stainless steel, will NOT be a help to get new people to join in our hobby, that’s for sure!

It might be a good idea Art to put your trains and track in your will but even better would be when you get to the point where you cannot play with them any longer to find a relative or friend who wants to get into the hobby. Recently I was contacted by a local guy who had just set up a RR and he had got his equipment from his uncle in law who couldn’t use it anymore. This guys uncle in law was down for a visit a few weeks back and he really enjoyed seeing his trains up and running again.

A hindrance to this great hobby is the price of most things, the space requirements and sometimes the hobby shop owners themselves. I was once at a hobby shop where they had some G scale and I asked the owner if he ever got any used stuff in. His response floored me. He said that no one has G scale outdoors in the North East because it is such a hassle dealing with the elements etc… etc… Wow way to promote the hobby and possibly sell your full list priced stuff…I thought. I invited him in his spare time to check out my outdoor RR with 500 feet of track on youtube that I run year round. He then asked if there were any bikini girls in it? WHAT I thought does he mean my wife and possible daughter? What a PERV. I left and haven’t been back since.

I still say the best way into this expensive hobby is to go with preowned stuff and whenever you can build it yourself.

Perhaps he meant a 1:29 scale beach scene …

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MODEL-RAILROADER-January-2001-L66-/301145403148?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item461daa2f0c

(Mouse over photo to enlarge.)

Joe

Edit: Added (Mouse…)

Todd Haskins said:

He then asked if there were any bikini girls in it? WHAT I thought does he mean my wife and possible daughter? What a PERV. I left and haven’t been back since.

I still say the best way into this expensive hobby is to go with preowned stuff and whenever you can build it yourself.

Tell him there were no bikinis in your era. :wink:

When I bought AristoCraft track new in 1997, it was $2.05/ft during the Jan/Feb “buy 4 boxes and get the 5th free” sale. George Schreyer bough his a year earlier and paid $2.00/ft. Back at the time LGB track was ~$3.65/ft. But even in 1997 this wasn’t “cheap.”

When I supplemented my track with used pieces, I never paid more than $1/ft.

Over the years, I’ve noticed that just because a person owns a hobby shop, doesn’t mean they are good business people.

Often the people that get into the hobby business, do so in order to give themselves a cheap way to get stuff for themselves, in whatever hobby they are involved in.

They may be “Experts” in that one hobby, but are sadly lacking in the knowledge about any other hobby.

Being a success in running a business is not for the faint of heart. It is a tough business, and the tales have been told over the last decade of those that have failed.

There is also the fact that LS takes up a lot of shelf space, and creates a rather expensive inventory. It is seldom the scale of choice in the minds of hobby shop owners.

I have seen well meaning owners, hang on to inventory, priced at high MSRP, in the hope that their pot of gold would arrive one bright day; meanwhile, the cost of keeping the item builds up day by day. There is a time when it pays to get rid of inventory at whatever you can get for it, as it is tying up your capitol. This is where too many well meaning HSO’s get into trouble, but can’t conceive of the idea of taking a loss to get rid of something that is tying up inventory.

Then there is the pig headed owner that insists that he/she has to make a certain profit, when, if they looked at lowering the profit, and looking at making the lower profit on volume, it could help the rest of the inventory.

Track is a great example. The more track you can sell, at a minimum profit, can often promote the selling, at a higher profit, of rolling stock, that requires the track to run on.

If you guys have not noticed the price of any hobby/sport is through the roof. Try taking a family of four to the movies, nowadays you need to take out a loan. It is truly relative to the large increase in inflation, during this recesion. Isn’t it funny how during a recession, manufacturers answers to hit their numbers is to keep raising there prices?

My 2 cents,

Then of course there is the stupidity of people.

The hobby shop owner that wouldn’t sell Kadee couplers to a potential customer, because “He didn’t purchase the car/locomotive from him”

Same owner, stopped selling hobby magazines, because he wasn’t making enough profit on them…Hobby magazines are a noted hobby shop “Loss leader”, drawing customers into the shop every month, where they usually purchase other high priced items, while picking up the magazines. In the case I remember; the owner even charged higher prices for the magazines than the value listed on the cover.

I’m sure there are hundreds of tales of stupidity out there…or is it ignorance.

On a more POSITIVE NOTE…

There are so many GREAT dealers, serving the hobby, and each of us can tell good stories of their experiences. Those dealers, usually are good business people, and work hard to please their customers, and end up making enough profit to stay in business, in spite of the economy. Any hobbiest that doesn’t look around for a good dealer, is purely at fault, for not doing research…by simply asking on forums such as this.

I see that nobody has mentioned the obvious .

If your hobbies include drinking , smoking , doing up old cars , travelling the world , entertaining , etc., and you find it difficult to find the money for trains , you had better start thinking about which other hobbies to drop . That’s if you want to be serious (horrible word , but applicable) about playing trains .

Because I feel that a lot of you also have mortgages , food , medical bills , schools , and so forth to consider , I understand and sympathise with you , but it’s no good carrying on about costs if you chose this as a hobby without looking at potential damage to the wallet .

I would like another Rolls Royce , but cannot afford it . I know that , so make do with a lesser vehicle .

Rather an extreme example , but quite valid . (And I did once have a Bentley Mk 6 , but had to give it up----why?–running costs .)

Who in your household takes priority when something “must have” comes up ? Does missy really need an i-pad when she is just going to sit all day running up telephone bills ? If she does , perhaps she should get a job . Like you did .

Please note that this is not a personal attack on anyone , I have no knowledge of any of your circumstances .

But I really do get that little bit cynical when the subject of cost comes up . Either save up for it (you don’t actually need the track right now , do you ?) . If you cannot control your spending , buy a bit of track a week , a month or whatever you can afford .

Look through the railway mags and the internet for the affordable priced stuff , do not support greedy shop owners . Note the word “greedy” . There are a lot of good shop owners around .

And above all , remember when you buy a loco , for say $500 , that equates to a substantial length of track which might improve the enjoyment of your existing loco and stock .

Sorry to preach , but it sometimes is a good idea to step back and take stock (excuse the pun)

Mike (not the rich old git some people think)

I’m pretty sure that guy wasn’t talking about plastic girls in bikinis. I guess what he was trying to say is that if my videos didn’t have bikini girls in them then he didn’t want to waste his time.

Your springs look like a nice place to visit Todd Brody.

Good points Friar Fred, of course this guy had a fine pile of PINK LGB boxes in his front window. Pink ? what happened to red? Well they had been sitting there so long the sun faded them out.

A good dealer has a passion for his product. In the case of my wife and I in our real estate business we have a passion for houses and helping people to buy and sell them. In the case of this guy I don’t think he was very happy in general and it sure showed.