Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Scale(s) of the LGB GenesisLength 1:29.2
Width 1:27.6
Height 1:25.5
Wheel diameter 1:27
Wheelbase in trucks 1:28.5
Yeah, thats “close to…”
Yeah, thats “close to…”
Victor Smith said:Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Scale(s) of the LGB GenesisLength 1:29.2
Width 1:27.6
Height 1:25.5
Wheel diameter 1:27
Wheelbase in trucks 1:28.5
Yeah, thats “close to…”
Vic,
If JL hadn’t stated "As close to 1:29 as I can get it. " everyone would have said “LGB scale, as usual!”, but making the “as close to…” statement sure raised the expectations. As in “hope springs eternal, even if it involves LGB and the flexibility of scale”. You just never know!
Victor Smith said:Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Scale(s) of the LGB GenesisLength 1:29.2
Width 1:27.6
Height 1:25.5
Wheel diameter 1:27
Wheelbase in trucks 1:28.5
Yeah, thats “close to…”
PRECISELY!
How hard would it have been for said person to have posted that?
That way the guy asking would KNOW and be able to decide if it was “close to…”
NOBODY that I saw denigrated the model due to any particular scale issues.
Simply state what the scale IS when someone asks!
I don’t have any problems with it.
I think it’s a nice looking model.
The issue in that thread was and is the response.
The response from Jack Lynch is the corporate creed as highlighted on their packaging - Quote: "Compatible - works with all G-Scale Products from “The World of LGB”. As G-Scale is a technical term and denotes a specific scale then the use of the term from Lehmann is a very loose interpretation of the actual scale. The trucks for the Genesis are based on the old F7 drive blocks. This would explain the scale variance. As to the other dimensions, then the scale could only be described as ‘creative’. To actually engineer a product then the original dimensions of the prototype need to be veriified and the model dimensions determined. A 1/29 scale product is narrower than the typical Lehmann product. This explains the width deviation from prototype dimension. However, length and height are irrelevant to the ‘LGB scale adaptation’ as the Genesis is a tall loco, so a scale height and length would have fitted in with the corporate creed without altering scale dimensions. The choice of a caricature scale adaptation is intentional to ‘distort’ the model to complement other distorted models from the manufacturer to impress the point that LGB make “Toys” not models.
A “Toy” has no scale. A “Model” has scale. This takes me back to the 1960’s. Monogram determined through market research the exact size packaging to get a customer’s attention on the shelf in the hobby shop. This box dimension then became the basis of all models from them. The model tooling was designed to fit the box dimensions, not the prototype dimension. Thus no scale was written on the box. This produced many ‘warbird’ aircraft models in 1/38 or 1/40 scale, along with automobiles in stange ‘scales’. Remember the box actual size was the scale determination of the product. Monogram was in the business to sell ‘boxes’ not scale models. I see a similar motto from Lehmann. LGB sell a size, not a scale model.
Curmudgeon said:
SNIP PRECISELY! How hard would it have been for said person to have posted that? That way the guy asking would KNOW and be able to decide if it was "close to...."NOBODY that I saw denigrated the model due to any particular scale issues.
Simply state what the scale IS when someone asks!
I don’t have any problems with it.
I think it’s a nice looking model.The issue in that thread was and is the response.
Dave, the problem for G45/LGBofA is one of credibility. Credibility for G45/LGBofA that is, because, by their own admission, they do not make scale models. By not making scale models, and no one is saying they should, they face a two edged sword that swings around and stabs them.
G45/LGBofA cannot afford to get too specific and say it is as close as possible to 1:29 as they then leave themselves open to being legitimately questioned as to the accuracy of what they claim as to being scale.
Likewise LGBofA cannot run the risk of alienating potential customers by openly telling the truth and saying they do not make scale models.
This is the same problem of credibility that Bachmann faced with the “Tsunami” fiasco in the 3 truck Shay.
When someone is caught out by a simple question that cannot be answered without shooting yourself in the foot, the normal reaction is to:
A). Change the subject,
B). Try and shoot the messenger,
C). SPIN!!!
Nowhere in any of the postings I made on the subject at both GR and here, did I bash the LGB product.
Quite the contrary, as evidenced above.
I do admit to calling the “spinners” to account for what they do.
Yup.
The “foamers” got the thread yanked, and to CYA they blame others.
I still hear back-channel the attempts to discredit anyone who does not lock-step with the mantra.
Now this, where I did not denigrate the product, the ex-LGB company, the ex-LGB employees, rather the ATTITUDE of one.
If someone asks me a question, unless I don’t want to give them an answer (and several foamers spring readily to mind) I do.
Usually with MORE information than they wanted, not LESS.
Obedience and unwavering loyalty.
Even while the bombs are falling.
Tim…you are quite correct.
Fill the box. If the box is big enough it will attract attention.....grab the attention of a potential customer and the customer will buy.
Young Polk and his father had the same idea when they developed 1:29. They had to put something on the shelf that was as large or larger than LGB, or they wouldn’t have the “Gosh” as in “Gosh Gauge” of LGB.
As far as the statement “Compatable with all G gauge trains”; they are correct. The LGB stuff runs on the same track, and using loop hook couplers, which they, and Aristo provide, will couple to anything the two companies manufacture, along with B’mann’s Big Hauler line.
The only problem is with the customers out there, who after getting more deeply into the hobby of "Large Scale Model Railroading", develope a sense of proportions, and get critical of what goes with what in a prototypical manner; to say nothing of those that have been MODEL RAILROADERS in the smaller scales.
You will notice that I said “Large Scale Model Railroaders” and not Garden railroaders, or Collectors.
There are many facetts to this hobby of “Railroading Interests”. By not being attuned to the desires and interests of each, we tend to miss what interests each group.
For example: I’m a LS Model Railroader, who happens to have his pike out in the back yard. I’m not a GR in any sense of the description, because the garden and the “Animation in the garden” part of GR is not my bag. OPERATION is.
At the same time; I’m not too interested in the finer details of the wonderful equipment being offered in 1:20.3, as it is too delicate to be practicle for operation, out in the real world. So; I use the old and durable 1:22.5 stuff, and have fun.
Yes, I’m scale concience; I don’t mix 1:22.5 with 1:20.3, or 1:29. I do use some 1:24, where it looks OK.
I don’t run in circles, or mix modern SG equipment with NG stuff.
What am I in the eyes of the "Great Unwashed.....".....?
To me; I like watching so many people get their "Knickers in a knot" over the whole LGB story.......life is too short, and at this point, I'm not an average customer of any of the manufacturers. I don't need or want anything else. I have the locos (And a few spares for replacements if I need them) to operate the railroad, and I have all the rolling stock I'll ever need....in fact I'm told by my friends who have developed the use of "RailOp" that I have too many cars.
SO…I sit here and watch. Throwing in a bit of humour when I can…it is fun to see the passion and stupidity that comes out of the typing finger of grown men…
I hope a few of you guys are having as much fun as I am.
Fr. Fred,
Yes, some of us are having a good deal of fun … errrrrrrrr … having been accused of “Schadenfreude” on more than one occasion, I just marvel at the ability of some to do “virtual splits”. Not only do they loose perspective, along with that they loose their sense of humour. Tripping over 5 “Tongue in Cheek” smilies without noticing that the post is a spoof is not unusual.
Anytime I translate another piece of the German reporting I ask myself “What will it be this time?” and the variations on the theme are quite entertaining. The one distinguishing marker is “Haste makes waste” which leads to more chuckles.
So not to worry, the amusement goes from a grin all the way to laughing out loud enough that SWMBO asks “what did write now?”, she does know the “Pappenheimers” when she reads them.
BTW the temp was up to 36ºC today, they are forecasting 40ºC for Friday. Sounds like we’ll be having a hot Friday the 13th. 
98F on the deck at dinner (4 hours ago).
81F now.
Supposed to be a high of 76 or 78F Saturday.
BTW, to stay “on track”, ever notice how the attacks seem to come in waves?
On multiple forums?
I wonder if the “Order of Battle” issued by High Command states the time and place of such attacks and the targets to be attacked?
Hmmm.
Forgive an old furriner butting in here, but I seem to recall from the dim and distant past, like about a year or so ago, that I provided a wadge of photos taken in Portland Union Station of an AmTrak Genesis loco, passenger cars and real live people [one of whom was my scaleable wife] to help determine that the LGB Genesis was as near as damn it a 1/29th model in all respects, apart, of course, from the slightly incorrect rail gauge-to-model ratio.
This subject was slaughtered and clubbed to death on the mls site, with many photos and comparisons being made…and we all decided than that the Genesis loco was in fact VERY tall by comparison with just about any other passenger dismal.
But that it was, as Mr Lynch noted, to all intents a 1/29th scale model, although GR’s Marc Horowitz noted that the trucks were a tad too long. He also noted - ‘this engine scales out well to 1/29th’. Certainly, comparing mine with the KATO model, the LGB trucks appear to be 4mm too long…are you going to kill LGB for that?
tac
Terry A de C Foley said:
SNIP But that it was, as Mr Lynch noted, to all intents a 1/29th scale model, although GR's Marc Horowitz noted that the trucks were a tad too long. He also noted - 'this engine scales out well to 1/29th'. Certainly, comparing mine with the KATO model, the LGB trucks appear to be 4mm too long.....are you going to kill LGB for that?tac
www.ovgrs.org
No Terry I am not going to kill LGB for that.
I don’t care one fig what the real scale of the Genesis or even if it is to any scale at all.
What I will criticise G45/LGBofA for is the attitude shown by Mr Lynch to a newcomer who asked a simple perfectly valid question.
What is the scale of the Genesis?
The newcomer was given the run around such that Mr Lynch made himself look petty, to the extent that the thread at GR was withdrawn.
I read the thread before it was yanked and the gentleman who asked the question thanked Mr. Lynch for posting the pictures so obviously he wasn’t insulted . You guys are obviously blowing it way out of proportion!
I think he didn’t post it as 1/29th scale because he probably knew it would give you guys the opportunity to bring up the whole “LGB isn’t scale” thing again.
I believe that the ‘scale issue’ is over emphasised in that we all know that scale and LGB are not spoken in the same sentence. The Genesis is almost 1/29 scale, when the relevant prototype dimensions are used. However, the overall dimension is not to scale. Similarly the excellent Amtrak coaches. All the engineering effort to produce a shortened coach reminescent of ‘h.o.’ modelling back in the 1970’s, to maintain an unrealistic minimum radii criteria. There seems a real lack of enthusiasm to actually build something which most people want. This refusal to break from tradition, would have contributed to the initial decline in sales in the 1990’s, ultimately resulting in the failure to service debts in the 2004-2006 period.
A co-ordinated system is applaudible, but when a companies products differ in scale from 1/19 scale to 1/29 scale, how can one possibly maintain a co-ordinated ‘scale’ so that all models complement each other. A trivia point to remember is that the iconic little Stainz that was to 1/22.5 scale was actually a 750mm gauge loco, ‘regauged’ by Lehmann to run on 45mm track.
John Joseph Sauer said:JJ
I read the thread before it was yanked and the gentleman who asked the question thanked Mr. Lynch for posting the pictures so obviously he wasn't insulted . You guys are obviously blowing it way out of proportion! I think he didn't post it as 1/29th scale because he probably knew it would give you guys the opportunity to bring up the whole "LGB isn't scale" thing again.
Are you close enough to the “action” to know what Jack Lynch intended???
No, when it comes to scale a picture isn’t worth a thousand words, not even 35 alphanumeric characters. But I have seen pictures that clearly show the LGB Genesis being too wide and too tall to be 1:29 in those dimensions
I think LGB (LGBoA) is very flexible when it comes to scale, three different scales when it comes to length, width and height attest “flexibility”.
I also think that the length is pretty close to 1:29; the length would get “Excellent”(+/- 1%) in my grading system. Of course there are people who think my grading system, based on % variation from correct scale or generally accepted scale in the case of 1:29, is too strict:
+/- 1.0% or better : Excellent
+/- 1.1 to 4% : Very Good
+/- 4.1 to 7% : Good
+/- 7.1 to 10% : Passable
+/- 10.1% and above : Questionable
In that case the LGB Genesis is:
Length: Excellent
Width: Good
Height: Questionable
Ya know…All of this could have been avoided by the simple statement:
“1/29 compatible.”
Avoids the whole issue of what the true scale is, yet answered the posters original question.
Logic can be a four letter word at times.
Good point Victor although I doubt it would be good enough to satisfy the “purists” out there!
John Joseph Sauer said:There is a substantial difference between compatible with 1:29 and "Suitable for G", especially since "G" supposedly equals 45mm! Nothing to do with "purists", lots to do with making a scale relevant statement.
Good point Victor although I doubt it would be good enough to satisfy the "purists" out there!
Yes, I’m sure there is a reason for some people at LGB/LGBoA not stating the scale.
Now if those people would be savvy enough to keep that in mind when they print brochures, catalogues, supply press releases concerning review items and ads to the mags, I guess we would expect less (even less?) and they wouldn’t trip themselves up on the way to the circus. Chances are that LGB SG items wouldn’t be announced as 1:22.5 scale and when questioned the answer wouldn’t be “We publish what the mfgs supply” or something similar.
What some morons don’t understand (and probably has caused some confusion) is that the Genesis was originally listed on the company website as 1:22.5.
That is why one magazine stated it to be 1:22.5.
Now, if A) they list an erroneous scale in a webpage, and B) won’t give a straight answer to what scale it is, what exactly is one to think?
TonyWalsham said:
No Terry I am not going to kill LGB for that. I don't care one fig what the real scale of the Genesis or even if it is to any scale at all.What I will criticise G45/LGBofA for is the attitude shown by Mr Lynch to a newcomer who asked a simple perfectly valid question.
What is the scale of the Genesis?
The newcomer was given the run around such that Mr Lynch made himself look petty, to the extent that the thread at GR was withdrawn.
Understooded.
tac
wwwovgrs.org
Curmudgeon said:
What some morons don't understand (and probably has caused some confusion) is that the Genesis was originally listed on the company website as 1:22.5.That is why one magazine stated it to be 1:22.5.
Now, if A) they list an erroneous scale in a webpage, and B) won’t give a straight answer to what scale it is, what exactly is one to think?
…maybe something Orwell or Kafka wrote about what happens when one questions what the official version of reality is, comes to mind.
Yeah they screwed the pooch on that one, simple edit-cut-paste solves it, funny thing is that even if they called it 1/29 initially, it would have gotten beaten up anyway since everything in 1/29 gets beaten up initially for scale compromises, but after a short while, we’d forgotten all that and moved on, and everyone who wanted one would have bought it anyway.
Its all the Soviet style there is no scale, nor will we discuss scale, nor tell you a scale discourse hush-hush that cracks me up.