Large Scale Central

What scale is the LGB Genesis?

General Discussion
#1

There is an interesting thread re the scale of the LGB Genesis at the Garden Railways forum.

http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/1164995/ShowPost.aspx#1164995

Try this for size.

Quote from “Bucksco”

Tony,

I’m typing this on my own time- note there is no company reference in my avatar thus it is not an “official” LGBoA statement. You know as well as I do that LGB products are not meant to be perfect scale replicas. Perhaps after things in Germany are sorted out this will change. We could argue the “Scale” question all day long (as some folks love doing) and it won’t get us anywhere. LGB’s products are designed to be propotional to existing LGB products. There is plenty of room in the hobby world for everyone’s products. If LGB’s products do not suite your needs there are plenty of other choices out there for you. There really is no need to condemn LGB products because they do not fit into your (and other’s) conception of what the product should be.

My reply.

Jack.

What has your answer to do with the original question?

Nowhere in what I wrote did I condemn LGB products. I have long admired LGB products and have owned a number in the past and currently own one. I consider them to be the best made smoothest running of all the locos that I have owned. They do suit me quite well actually as personally I do not care what the scale of a model is. What I do not appreciate are erroneous claims as to scale when the claimant is knowingly obfuscating as to what the scale may be. As you are a senior employee of LGBofA most reasonable people would see what you say as being the “official” word, especially as on other fora you use the LGB logo with your posts under the name Bucksco.

Another poster had asked a simple question. What is the scale of the Genesis? As a newcomer he deserved a straightforward answer.

There was no need to get “narky” and treat the question in a manner that was hardly straightforward. In fact it could be interpreted as insulting.

Then you chose to announce the scale as being “G” scale which is accepted officially by both the NMRA and :GB tehmselves as being 1:22.5. Would you like me to produce evidence that LGB has in the past claimed that their products were 1:22.5 scale? I have a collection of LGB catalogues where it is quite clearly stated.

Now it seems you are changing the subject. How about a straight answer for a change.

Can I take it that LGBofA no longer claim their models are built to any particular scale at all?

#2

I agree Tony. Dave might have egged him on a bit but I found Jack’s tone and response a bit insulting. Kind of like the current administration’s we’ll only tell you what we think you need to know attitude.

-Brian

#3

Tony,

There will always be people who actually measure the models and then tell those who are interested what the scale(s) is (are).

When I do reviews I make it a habit to list at least the major dimensions and they don’t get listed as “close to 1:xx”. The scale and the deviation in % from the generally accepted scale for the model, or the scale the mfg claims, gets listed. Straight forward proposition of doing the research on the prototype and then measuring the model. No rocket science! OTOH depending on the results there usually is a certain amount of static from those who would rather not see the direct comparisons. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

“So it goes” Kurt Vonnegut

#4

Funny, from what I read his tone generally is.

As I had posted, I do grow weary of “suitable for large scale”.

I knew the masurements were NOT exactly 1:29, and the GR review, if one carefully reads it, is obvious that the last part was “edited in”.

I wonder why?

I guess if foamers aren’t instructed exactly what to say, the default is “suitable for large scale”, or “just wait until next week”.

#5

Subject topic go “bye-bye”???

#6
Victor Smith said:
Subject topic go "bye-bye"???
Well now! Ain't that sumptin' !?!

-Brian

#7

Maybe , just maybe , the quote below , really should have been in really big red letters so it would stand out !
Perhaps it would ease the pain that so many suffer over scale ?

the below quote in really big red letters …

If LGB’s products do not suite your needs there are plenty of other choices out there for you. There really is no need to condemn LGB products because they do not fit into your (and other’s) conception of what the product should be.

I am able to read this quote , and understand it even .

Of course , I live in the area of this country where , if you don’t like it , you don’t buy it ! How hard is that to understand really ?

But then again , what would we post about , well maybe , the enjoyment of operating our outdoor trains ?

Share the joy , not the pain !

#8

And, if the posts were still there, you would see that nobody said anything about that.
The issue was, what scale?
The answer was, “judge for yourself”.

The comment you quoted is another seeming attempt by the poster to divert attention from the subject to something else.

Not funny.

Yes, the thread is gone, and no, it wasn’t anything I said.
I checked.

#9

TOC you have my respect for all that you do and have done for this hobby .

But what part do you not follow , regards my quote below ?..

If LGB’s products do not suite your needs there are plenty of other choices out there for you. There really is no need to condemn LGB products because they do not fit into your (and other’s) conception of what the product should be.

The above is a clear quote to me , with a clear meaning .

#10
Dennis Paulson said:
TOC you have my respect for all that you do and have done for this hobby .

But what part do you not follow , regards my quote below ?..

If LGB’s products do not suite your needs there are plenty of other choices out there for you. There really is no need to condemn LGB products because they do not fit into your (and other’s) conception of what the product should be.

The above is a clear quote to me , with a clear meaning .


Dennis,

And it still doesn’t answer the question that started the specific thread: What scale is the Genesis, 1:22.5 or 1:29? Now if someone thinks that wasn’t a specific enough answer, hmmmmmmmm

In any case, our Sales Manager (aka SWMBO) posted the relevant scales for length, width, height, wheel diameter and axle distance. Yes, no two of the five have the same value, but that wasn’t a surprise.

It wasn’t about any concept, it was about “What scale is it?” and the answer wasn’t forthcoming? If our Sales Manager would come up with an answer like that, we would have a “little talk”!

PS By all appearances nerves are a bit frayed in the “Kingdom of LGBoA”. :wink: :slight_smile:

#11

Dennis-
The message you quote is true, and I have no problem with it at all as a stand-alone comment.
In fact, I determined long ago the cost, prototype, and scale did not suit my needs (if you add them all together), so I haven’t purchased anything new in the ex-LGB line in years and years.
Last I bought was a special at TW of two DR low sided gons…BECAUSE they were the exact same car as the D&RGW low-side cars, and I simply removed the German lettering.

The problem I have with the statement is it was not “stand-alone”, rather an attempt to make casual readers think that folks were “bashing” a product, when that did not occur.

I just called again and checked, and even though originally some thought I was “bashing LGB again”, when they re-read it, it was not so, and they admitted it.

The question, as repeated here, was “scale”.

I even quoted from the GR review of a year ago.

“judge for yourself” isn’t an answer.

The comment posted still seems to be an attempt to divert attention away from the refusal to talk about the scale of the unit in question and once again, “shoot the messenger”, as we have seen so many times on this and other forums, and divert attention away from the question to blaming the questioner.

And it got worse after I left the thread.
Hence, it seems, it is now history.

#12

quote=Curmudgeon]Dennis-
The message you quote is true, and I have no problem with it at all as a stand-alone comment.
In fact, I determined long ago the cost, prototype, and scale did not suit my needs (if you add them all together), so I haven’t purchased anything new in the ex-LGB line in years and years.
Last I bought was a special at TW of two DR low sided gons…BECAUSE they were the exact same car as the D&RGW low-side cars, and I simply removed the German lettering.

Dave your quote above is why I still have a high respect for you . If its not what you need , you do not buy it .
And you actually do operate outdoor trains , quite well from what I read .
So I will acknowldege your truths , and be quiet , and go back out and operate my outdoor trains .

I have outdoor trains for enjoyment
Dennis

#13

For those that are truly concerned about scale, there is no answer to the question. It follows no scale. As Jack stated, it’s proportioned to be suitable with other LGB products. LGB’s narrow gauge products have in the past been close to 1:22.5, but since they entered the standard gauge world and US outline products those have been more closely to a “rubber” 1:27. :confused:

We know that LGB uses a rubber ruler, so why do we continue the arguement. They have never seemed willing to listen. And we will not know what LGBoA’s true philosophy regarding scale will be until it releases it’s first product with it’s own label.

#14

Perhaps some people, three to be exact, need better glasses.

Three people do nothing but constantly criticize LGBoA, Lehmann, and their employees.

I read the topic on the GR Forum and Guess who spun it into a scale issue, again.

Yea the topic’s gone, guess people are getting fed up with some of you and your posts. Eh?

Why the silence, some people can be considered a good reason.

#15

Well I guess if they want to keep the scale a secret, So be it, as I need not worry about purchasing. If it isn’t 1/29 I don’t need it. Later RJD

#16

Maybe you’d best check why it was pulled.
Wasn’t on account of me.
I checked.

So, exactly who asked about scale?
Wasn’t me.
Who responded “judge for yourself”?
Wasn’t me.

There was this gtrainman in the thread.
Remember?

Do they know who they are dealing with?
Pretty sure they do.

Pretty sure they, like most websites now, know all about ventilators and foamers.

Hopefully about the games.

But, the real issue is who is complaining about folks they claim are “bashing” a non-existant company?
The Banks own it.
Until someone buys it and it comes out of the second phase of insolvency, there is no company.

That has been pointed out, BTW.

The most interesting thing web owners now seem to be looking at is who is complaining and why?

Can you show me where I did any “bashing”?
You didn’t like the statement that I am weary of “suitable for large scale”?

That is a quote, in case you have missed the dozens and dozens of times the statement has been used.

You and your friends are defending something that doesn’t exist, and unless you happen to be disgruntled former stockholders, the people that actually have no business commenting are, in fact, you.

The e-mails that go out directing your activities…seen some.
And the full distribution list.

For anyone who has seen them, and then see actions like yours, they know who is pulling the strings.

Folks who don’t want any discussion, nor any translations of German news posted, there has to be a reason, a reason even the most un-comprehending of folks are now beginning to see through.

Keep it up.

You are getting good world-wide press.

Now let’s see how long it takes you to remove portions of this post and re-quote to say something totally different.

“Why the silence, some people can be considered a good reason.”

Yes, with the comments you make, there is good reason we are silent.

And, how many continuously promote " LGBoA, Lehmann, and their employees." ?

Okay, let’s look at that once again.
There IS no Lehmann.
Bankrupt. Owned by the banks.
There are no Lehmann employees. All laid off. Maybe you missed that.

So, LGBoA.
It is really G45, but that’s niggling at details (you’re gonna have fun re-working that line).

I did not poke at employees or product, other than stating I have grown weary of “suitable for large scale”, oh, and I quoted GR, which said “LGB will not claim a scale for their models”.

Okay. I didn’t say that, GR did. In print.
We know that to be somewhat in error, as they state “Suitable for Large Scale”.

Suddenly you are an expert on scale issues?
Measurements, especially when compared to prototype dimensions, don’t lie.

You want to restrict my ability to comment on scale issues?

Who died and made you God?

It is attitudes like yours and your cohorts that have made a LOT of folks decide that if and when someone revives the line, they ain’t interested.

Like I said before, you’re getting worldwide coverage.

#17

I have to admite how surprised I was by how fast the topic devolved into the abyss.

Someone asked a simple question, what scale is this?

Someone posts a reply showing the Genesis next to a known 1/29 loco to show it was “close to” 1/29. Then the hoo-haw begins…

I only added what I had read from Jack “Buckso” himself on the MLS site that when pressed about the scale finally said “as close to 1/29 as I could get it” …which was a pretty definite statement of the design-intent of the model, the comment is still there if anyone cares to the look for it. So I think that we answered the question.

What scale is it?..“close to” 1/29… OK we all know that and have for a long time. In reality no model is exactly to scale, again we all know that. Why all the “venting”?

I dont know why the topic when boom either, but it was already getting fugly when I posted.

Maybe we should say “in the realm of 1/29 ( or 1/20.3)” in lieu of just 1/29 (or 1/20.3) for certain products :slight_smile:

#18
Warren Mumpower said:
For those that are truly concerned about scale, there is no answer to the question. It follows no scale. As Jack stated, it's proportioned to be suitable with other LGB products. LGB's narrow gauge products have in the past been close to 1:22.5, but since they entered the standard gauge world and US outline products those have been more closely to a "rubber" 1:27. :/

We know that LGB uses a rubber ruler, so why do we continue the arguement. They have never seemed willing to listen. And we will not know what LGBoA’s true philosophy regarding scale will be until it releases it’s first product with it’s own label.


I don’t believe the concern in that thread was about scale, it was about someone not getting an answer when asking what scale it is. There are people who don’t know yet that LGB uses a rubber ruler and from the way Kevin phrased the question he is probably one of them.

BTW if someone would ask me what scale the LGB Genesis is, I would reply 1:29.2 in length. That’s the closest she wrote! And it would be quite a bit more precise than the answer that was provided.

Let the “Ventilators” spin. When someone tells me that none of the other mfgs engines are right on the 1:29 mark, well, that is quite possible, but they are at least consistent in length, width and height i.e. they use a uniform scale.

As I mentioned before I can hardly wait for the first “Produced by LGBoA” item to show up, even better together with a catalogue!

PS just read Vic’s post:

Scale(s) of the LGB Genesis

Length 1:29.2

Width 1:27.6

Height 1:25.5

Wheel diameter 1:27

Wheelbase in trucks 1:28.5

Anyone wants to read the rest of the GARTENBAHNprofi Review translation of the engine here it is as a PDF. Happy reading!

#19

…I hear that we might even see a “Bachmann LGB” sign hung out in the future…egads that will make B’mann a purchase of choice for all the LGB fans, who would never stoop to buy it now…!!!

This is fun; watching from trackside…

#20

Then, why could he have not so stated?
Instead of “Judge for yourself”?

The actual measurements are 1:29, 1:28, 1:27, and so on.

The avoidance of the fact is the issue.
The original poster deserved better.

Funny stuff, if you don’t take it or yourself seriously.