Large Scale Central

What Scale are the LGB Amtrk passenger cars?

General Discussion
#61
steve stockham said:
.... You may not like the fact but there are people that want their trains to be in the same scale! I have long known that LGB's trains were fantastic runners but that they were NOT to any particular scale and that was okay as they weren't meant to be! Someone asked why LGBof A (by the way, I thought you guys were now called G45 or something. What's up with the LGBof A?) should make trains compatable with USA and Aristocraft and I would think the answer was obvious! LGB went bankrupt! Kaput! Never mind the reasons, the fact is that you guys are trying to pick up the pieces and continue and I wish you the best but I also am waiting for the answer to a question (No.....I'm NOT going to ask what scale something is as we ALL know that these trains aren't to any particular scale. Rather, I am wondering if, when financing is more manageable, that SCALE might be a consideration in future products? Back in 1968, LGB was it. Even when Lewis, Charlie, H.Lee, Phil and the rest joined in, LGB maintained a seemingly higher level and continued to enjoy almost a cult status and prices reflected this. Fast forward 30 years and the other manufacturers were catching up and in some cases, even surpassing LGB! Scale fidelity is such a situation. I would seriously consider manufacturing your next new product in a measurable scale and one that is compatable with the other manufacturers. It's not only good business, it's common sense! Anyway, please stop with the accusations of "attacks" as this whole thing really makes you guys seem petty! I know you believe in your company and it's products but you HAVEN'T answered the original question and it IS relevant to many of us! I'm not going to spend boucoup bucks on something that might look good next to my other rolling stock without first checking it out Knowing the scale is a BIG step towards doing that! Please consider this. Thanks!
Hi Steve,

That’s a load to respond to, but here is a shot. First, I love scale models! I have many including some in large scale (Magnus and Kiss IIm). My next purchase is the new ROCO Austrian Mh 6 0-8+4 in H0e. It costs more than half of what a mogul sells for and it fits in the palm of your hand! I’ve been in the real one where it was restored and just have to get it! What you may be missing here is I don’t model North American so none of the makers except LGB offer(ed) me anything regardless of scale and at a reasonable cost. I just don’t pursue “scale” in my large trains or my tinplate trains. All my LGB looks great together. (to me)

I do follow current U.S. 1:1 and have just returned from a visit to Bailey Yard in Nebraska (worlds largest). BTW Trains magazine is the best mag. in the Kalmbach stable.

You may be confusing me with another “Jack”. I personally know many of the people at G45, LGBoA and the former LGB, but I have no say in what they do and make and never did. I simply wrote a collecting column. On occasion I have put my $.02 in but it has no more value then your opinion. No one knows what the future has to offer.

I really don’t know that I have used the word “attack”. I always note name calling and to me it indicates a weakness in ones argument. What does bother me is a selective approach. The leading “scale guru” only measures LGB. (OK a few other things) But we were viewing three items in this topic and only one was measured and the thought seemed to be upsetting. Why? I think you would be surprised how the other two stack up against a ruler. But I hope you noticed that my request was rebuked sharply.

Thanks for your comments and concern, Jack Barton a.k.a. “The Kollector”

#62
Ken Fillar said:
Ever wonder why an assosiate of Bachmann shares so much *scale* interest, everywhere, about the products that Lehmann/LGB made?
I wonder why LGB fans get their knickers in a knot everytime someone mentions scale. If scale is so unimportant to them, why don't they just ignore the people who do care about scale? After all, their questions or opinions aren't going to stop you from buying LGB products, right?

I also wonder why LGB is so evasive about scale if their fans don’t care one way or the other. Obviously, those folks will buy LGB no matter what, right? So LGB should either clearly state what scale their products are, or else clearly state that their products are not intended to be scale models.

Or am I wrong on this? Would LGB fans stop buying LGB products if those products were built to a clearly defined scale? I think this is unlikely. I’ve never heard of anyone refusing a model because it was reasonably close to scale in all three dimensions. But maybe the LGB folks will surprise me.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not a total stickler for scale. I can accept that sometimes a few concessions must be made in order to produce a model that can run on the average layout. And I can also accept mixing products of slightly different scales if the result is close enough to look good. But I do prefer to make an informed decision, rather than guessing at a product’s scale.

Oh, and I do own a couple LGB locos, and like them a lot. There are one or two others I’d like to get someday, if they’re available and I can afford them. I also own a bit of Bachmann stuff and even <gasp!> a Buddy L loco. :slight_smile:

#63
steve stockham said:
Okay, I've seen enough. I can't stand by without commenting any longer! Jack, Ken and everybody that feels like LGB is "under attack," guess what? YOU ARE!!! (maniacle laughter followed by sinister music...) SNIP!
Steve, just so you know. I am not, repeat not, attacking G45/LGBofA. I am attacking the mindset of some G45/LGBofA employees/fans, venters, call em what you will, that still persists in the attitude of screw you we will tell you what you should be buying and woebetide anyone who dares question that mindset. I call it the Marie Antoinette mentality. If the great unwashed can't get bread, so what, they should eat cake instead.

To the G45/LGBofA fans and sciolists.
I know G45/LGBofA don’t make scale models. I don’t care whether they do or not. That they don’t is their problem. Not mine. Whether or not the toys they produced were made to a proper scale was factor in the demise of LGB in Germany, I do not know.
What I do object to is a senior employee of G45/LGBofA showing the attitude I described just above. There is no need for it. That attitude is not only confined to Jack Lynch. Other manufacturers also exhibit such attitudes.
What Jack Lynch fails to understand is, that whilst he and other recalcitrants, may have the “corporate muscle” to get threads pulled at other websites by erroneously claiming his beloved employer is being bashed, when they are not, you cannot get the whole of the web shut down just because you don’t like being questioned about your attitude to consumers.

Get real fellas.
By an overwhelming margin shown in a number of surveys, it is now obvious LS consumers want to know what scale the models are.
I take you do know who it was that asked Kalmbach to make the surveys in the first place?

You claim that the models produced by AristoCraft and USA Trains, which they say are 1:29 scale, are not accurate. If you feel so strongly about it why don’t you raise the subject over at the AristoCraft forum and see what Mr Polk has to say?
G45/LGBofA, and other manufacturers, ignore such surveys at their peril.

#64
Jack Barton said:
...................................

The leading “scale guru” only measures LGB. (OK a few other things) But we were viewing three items in this topic and only one was measured and the thought seemed to be upsetting. Why? I think you would be surprised how the other two stack up against a ruler. But I hope you noticed that my request was rebuked sharply.

Thanks for your comments and concern, Jack Barton a.k.a. “The Kollector”


Jack,

First, I only measure what I buy to run on our layout, which is more or less restricted to RhB 1969 - 75.

Second, except for quick checks I don’t use a ruler to measure what is under review. What I use to measure is clearly stated after the ratings section. Same regime for any of the mfgs.

Third, would you care to list some of the results for items from “the other two” i.e. length, width, height compared to the respective prototype? You must have been surprised at the results you measured.

BTW since there are a few NA proto LSers here in the valley I’ll pester them for some loaners to do some comparisons. That will be highly interesting!

But until then here is some reading material from the GARTENBAHNprofi:

USAT S-4

PS Just in case it was forgotten in all the hubbub, the title of the thread is “What Scale are the LGB Amtrk passenger cars ?”. Still missing is the dimension top of rail to top of roof for the LGB item.

#65

Tony,
The whole bit that you quoted was totally tongue-in-cheek (which I’m sure you already know!) The rest of it was dead serious though. I don’t understand why there seems to be so much vitriol! Well, that’s not exactly true… I did note that the question was deflected by the political tactic of accusing the person asking the question of bias (as if that in any way invalidates the question!) While a response to my post was polite, I did note that the overriding question of whether scale fidelity would ever be considered for future models was unaddressed. It IS possible that the decision one way or another simply hasn’t been addressed as yet! If this is indeed the case then LGBofA (G45?) should listen to what people are saying! Ignoring a growing segment of an already niche market is “unwise” and LGBofA would do so at it’s own peril.
I have no wish to see this venture fail. Far from it! I have a Mogul and a Forney and both are excellent runners! Bachmann took the plunge into 1:20.3 with accurate scale models. They are not nearly as robust as an LGB engine but they ARE scale models and they are beautiful! The bar keeps getting raised! The same goes for USA Trains and Aristocraft in 1:29! The standard is quite a bit higher than it was only a decade ago…all except LGB (well…and HLW too but that’s another thread!) and I’m afraid that unless LGBofA/G45 addresses this (and soon!) they may find themselves in a worse situation than they currently are in!

#66
steve stockham said:
Tony, The whole bit that you quoted was totally tongue-in-cheek (which I'm sure you already know!) The rest of it was dead serious though. I don't understand why there seems to be so much vitriol! Well, that's not exactly true...... I did note that the question was deflected by the political tactic of accusing the person asking the question of bias (as if that in any way invalidates the question!) While a response to my post was polite, I did note that the overriding question of whether scale fidelity would ever be considered for future models was unaddressed. It IS possible that the decision one way or another simply hasn't been addressed as yet! If this is indeed the case then LGBofA (G45?) should listen to what people are saying! Ignoring a growing segment of an already niche market is "unwise" and LGBofA would do so at it's own peril. I have no wish to see this venture fail. Far from it! I have a Mogul and a Forney and both are excellent runners! Bachmann took the plunge into 1:20.3 with accurate scale models. They are not nearly as robust as an LGB engine but they ARE scale models and they are beautiful! The bar keeps getting raised! The same goes for USA Trains and Aristocraft in 1:29! The standard is quite a bit higher than it was only a decade ago.......all except LGB (well...and HLW too but that's another thread!) and I'm afraid that unless LGBofA/G45 addresses this (and soon!) they may find themselves in a worse situation than they currently are in!
Steve, Yes and Yes. One of the main problems with our societies is Corporate BS. It seems to me that if they can't do it right out comes the spin doctors to try and cover up the deficiencies. I too want to see LS thrive and prosper. But, it won't happen for some companies with the cavalier attitude shown by those who should know better. Keep up the insightful comments.
#67

HJ, it appears that I’m the only one around here that owns one of the cars. Unfortunately it’s been boxed up and stuffed…somewhere. I really don’t feel up to digging it out as I’ve got too much dug out as it is. Everyone has the height measurements to the Heritage car…both prototype and model. Everyone has a picture of the Amfleet car with the Heritage car. From the picture it’s a given that the relationship is incorrect. Not much else is really necessary for one to make a judgement call.

#68
Warren Mumpower said:
HJ, it appears that I'm the only one around here that owns one of the cars. Unfortunately it's been boxed up and stuffed...somewhere. I really don't feel up to digging it out as I've got too much dug out as it is. Everyone has the height measurements to the Heritage car...both prototype and model. Everyone has a picture of the Amfleet car with the Heritage car. From the picture it's a given that the relationship is incorrect. Not much else is really necessary for one to make a judgement call.
But, Warren, I am certain the argument will be it doesn't matter as the color of the car they had in high school wasn't green. And if you don't stop bashing LGB, Lehmann, LGB employees, they will hold their breath until they pass out.

You know the drill.

That’s why we had Bob take his phone off the hook this week.

#69
Warren Mumpower said:
HJ, it appears that I'm the only one around here that owns one of the cars. Unfortunately it's been boxed up and stuffed...somewhere. I really don't feel up to digging it out as I've got too much dug out as it is. Everyone has the height measurements to the Heritage car...both prototype and model. Everyone has a picture of the Amfleet car with the Heritage car. From the picture it's a given that the relationship is incorrect. Not much else is really necessary for one to make a judgement call.
Warren,

I guess now it’s my turn to write: Warren needs a larger house! (See what that TOG guy instigates!?)

You’re right, only the blind and blinkered can’t see that the relationship is incorrect. Another case of “Gummi”!