Large Scale Central

What have you gotten yourself into!

Electronics Live Steam
#1

Well, my wish list came through and I was able acquire a Accucraft Butane fired K-28.

SO now what do I do!!! :open_mouth:

I will give you a little history on it. The seller bought the loco a few years ago. He test fired it at the dealer and then had it cleaned up and put back in the box. That is where it sat until he decided to sell it. Thatā€™s where I come in.

Iā€™m thinking I will probably have to replace some seals after it has sat so long, but not sure yet. Its not in my possession. Which seals would I expect to be deteriorated, lubricator?

I will definitely be adding R/C to it as I have a 4% grade in one spot on my layout. Some advice on that would be nice. Iā€™m fully aware of the R/C stuff in the sparky department. I currently own CVP T5000 and a NCE G-wire throttles, but I dont plan on using them for this loco.

Iā€™d like to add a chuffer as I like the sound better. Is Summerlands the only option out there, or they just the best?

Iā€™m pretty good with tools so I can add this stuff myself. But Iā€™m not sure all that I will need.

#2

Hi Jake,

Congrats on your new aquisition. Personally, I wouldnā€™t worry too much about preemptive maintenance to the seals. I would fire her up and see what happens. If the the o-ring on the filler plug is good, Iā€™d bet the other seals are doing well also. Down the road, you might want to buy yourself a set of Wiha metric nut drivers so you can take the mini screws out with minimal paint damage.

I am not aware of any damage that could occur to the locomotive by operating it with a failed seal. However, there may be some performance issues if something like happened.

#3

Congratulations on your find Jake. I donā€™t have enough experience to offer an opinion on the seals; but I think Jeff is probably right. Worst case, you canā€™'t get enough pressure up to move.

You could always try air first, Put it on rollers, or up on blocks and just use an air nozzle with rubber tip in the water fill opening. Keep the pressure on the low side and remember it wonā€™t have any lube so donā€™t push it.

R/C is pretty straight forward using servos and linkage. Spektrum radios are popular. You can get a DX5e for under $100. They have issues with the power switch but that is easy to work around.

#4

I agree with the above. Oil all the moving parts first and donā€™t forget to use steam oil, not motor oil. Make sure you donā€™t have any loose fittings and screws. steam it up. If the seals are no good you will get some steam leaks and or poor performance. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Its nice to have another steamer on board.

#5

Thanks Guys. Are the screws the same on the Live Steamers as they are on the Sparkys? If so I already have a set of nut drivers.

I need to get some steam oil as I dont have any. Just oil (Labelle 102) I use to lubricate my sparky engines. I use an lubricating oil in my air tools. Is that the same stuff as steam oil?

#6

Shawn Viggiano said:

I agree with the above. Oil all the moving parts first and donā€™t forget to use steam oil, not motor oil. . . .

Donā€™t oil the moving parts with steam oil ! It is thick stuff designed to work in a hot, steam environment, not to be used as a general lubricant. Steam oil goes in the lubricator - only.

Oil around the loco using ā€œturbineā€ oil. Your local hardware store sells it for oiling motors (e.g. a/c fans.) 3-in-1 has a blue can labelled ā€˜turbineā€™ oil (the red 3-in-1 will work but isnā€™t as good.)

Steam In The Garden magazine is a good source for articles about adding r/c to a live steamer. [They published one of mine.] Send me a message if you want a draft copy and some photos. There are a few threads around about r/c on a K - just google ā€œsite:mylargescale.com radio control Kā€. [Oops - did I forget where Iā€™m at?]

Finally, Iā€™m looking forward to getting a new r/c transmitter like the ones Tony Walsham is having made in the UK - they have knows and a few switches, not the sticks on the Spektrum radios.

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/19948/rcs-introduces-new-deltang-tx20

#7

Jake Smith said:

Thanks Guys. Are the screws the same on the Live Steamers as they are on the Sparkys? If so I already have a set of nut drivers.

I need to get some steam oil as I dont have any. Just oil (Labelle 102) I use to lubricate my sparky engines. I use an lubricating oil in my air tools. Is that the same stuff as steam oil?

Yes and No.

I believe the screws are the same on both types.

The oil you have for your air tools is probably turbine oil. I am much more cavalier than many live steamers about oil; I donā€™t oil them every time before running, and I donā€™t sweat the exact oil specsā€¦ I do worry about steam oil though!

#8

Thanks for the plug Pete but that pic is a bit outdated now. It was a sample Deltang made for the battery R/C side of the business.

I am now making two different TXā€™s suitable for Live Steam. They use a Deltang made RF module inside but everything else is made in Australia.

TX-2s for two servo locos.

TX-4s for locos with extra servos.

#9

Pete Thornton said:

Shawn Viggiano said:

I agree with the above. Oil all the moving parts first and donā€™t forget to use steam oil, not motor oil. . . .

Donā€™t oil the moving parts with steam oil ! It is thick stuff designed to work in a hot, steam environment, not to be used as a general lubricant. Steam oil goes in the lubricator - only.

Oil around the loco using ā€œturbineā€ oil. Your local hardware store sells it for oiling motors (e.g. a/c fans.) 3-in-1 has a blue can labelled ā€˜turbineā€™ oil (the red 3-in-1 will work but isnā€™t as good.)

Steam In The Garden magazine is a good source for articles about adding r/c to a live steamer. [They published one of mine.] Send me a message if you want a draft copy and some photos. There are a few threads around about r/c on a K - just google ā€œsite:mylargescale.com radio control Kā€. [Oops - did I forget where Iā€™m at?]

Finally, Iā€™m looking forward to getting a new r/c transmitter like the ones Tony Walsham is having made in the UK - they have knows and a few switches, not the sticks on the Spektrum radios.

I guess I should have worded that differently or made it two separate sentences. Thanks for catching that. .

Tony I sent you an email through your web page about your RC system for live steam.

#10

Jake touch base with Jay from the Train Department. He can hook you up with everything you need to get you started.

#11

Thank you Shawn.

I have replied to your E Mail.

#12

Jake, Best thing is to oil and fire it up. Most likely nothing will need to be replaced. Having a K28 myself replacing any of the Orings on the cylinders required a some time and disassembly and is not typical. My K has many hours on it and Ive replaced the seals once. You will most likely notice the gland seals leak in the cold as you may see slight puffs of steam from the rods on the forward stroke. If you need steam oil and such I have what you need along with various setups for gas adapters.

#13

I guess I should have worded that differently or made it two separate sentences

Shawn - I figured it was a mistype - never heard of anyone suggesting steam oil for axles. Sorry if I was a bit rude.

#14

Iā€™ve tried steam oil on the connecting rods of my 2 Cyl. Shay. It does quiet down the clicking but I donā€™t do it regularly. I also use it on the threads of the water fill. Makes it easier to open after firing. But mostly, I use it in the lubricator like Iā€™m supposed to.

Iā€™d never heard of turbine oil before. For moving parts (axels, rods, valves, drive linkages etc.) I use a light oil I picked at a hobby store. Iā€™m almost out so I need to replace it. Should I be looking for the turbine oil?

#15

Jon Radder said:

. . .

Iā€™d never heard of turbine oil before. For moving parts (axels, rods, valves, drive linkages etc.) I use a light oil I picked at a hobby store. Iā€™m almost out so I need to replace it. Should I be looking for the turbine oil?

Jon,

The light oil you use is probably turbine oil, designed for rotating parts moving at high speed (e.g. typical HO scale loco!) Yes, you should look for more of it, either at your hobby store or local hardware store if you want more for the money. Itā€™s quite easy to find.

#16

Jon Radder said:

Iā€™ve tried steam oil on the connecting rods of my 2 Cyl. Shay. It does quiet down the clicking but I donā€™t do it regularly. I also use it on the threads of the water fill. Makes it easier to open after firing. But mostly, I use it in the lubricator like Iā€™m supposed to.

Iā€™d never heard of turbine oil before. For moving parts (axels, rods, valves, drive linkages etc.) I use a light oil I picked at a hobby store. Iā€™m almost out so I need to replace it. Should I be looking for the turbine oil?

Jon - itā€™s not such a good idea to use steam oil where even the slightest trace can be carried into the boiler as a water pollutant. It forms a gooey varnishy mess inside the boiler and reduces the efficiency of the heat transfer something chronic. You then need to flush the boiler out with acetic acid or strong white vinegar - even a kettle descaler - to restore its earlier efficient boiling properties.

Just sayinā€™.

tac

#17

Thanks Terry. Iā€™ll need to come up with something else. Perhaps the light oil will do.

When I first got this loco finger tightening the water fill with no lube required big pliers to get it open after a run. With the lube my fingers still need a little help, but not nearly so much.

It might be a heat thing. My normal after-run practice (while still warm) is to drain the lubricator, refill with steam oil, fill the boiler with water, then remove 30ML, and finally fill the butane. This leaves the loco stored ready to fire. I oil around while it is building steam the next time out.

#18

a very good tip I leared from Jason a while back. a drop or two of steam oil on the piston and valve rod on startup, gives the seals some lubrication before the steam oil starts down the pipe.

#19

Jon - finger-tight is usually enough to effect a good seal. The reason that the filler might be overly tight after a run is because of the vacuum in the boiler caused by the production of all that steam - when itā€™s done, that is. Also, leaving it loose after a run is a plan, and the lubricator filler too, for the same reason. Make it part of your fire-up to just nip them tight. Iā€™ve never had this problem with either of my AccuCraft Shays, or anything else for that matter that uses similar fittings.

As an aside, remember that that vacuum can be used to refill the boiler after a run on many locomotives - itā€™s a powerful force.

Best to the Radders

tac, mrs tac and the crew

#20

Pete Thornton said:

I guess I should have worded that differently or made it two separate sentences

Shawn - I figured it was a mistype - never heard of anyone suggesting steam oil for axles. Sorry if I was a bit rude.

Lol you were not rude at all Pete. Im glad you caught it.