Large Scale Central

What are you looking for in Garden Railway Magazine?

General Discussion
#41

I looked at the February issue, didn’t find anything of interest, didn’t buy it.

On those detailed articles, I read quite a few of the European mags (all scales). They don’t seem to have a problem publishing anything from highly detailed articles on scratchbuilding rolling stock (complete with very detailed drawings) to electrical/electronic “how-to” write-ups (complete with schematics, parts list and whatever else one requires). Kitbashes galore!
All of it in very good print quality, with good quality pictures.
And when they do reviews, they quite often review and compare two or three of the identical items from different manufacturers and really point out the differences! All of it with detailed measurement where the prototype dimensions get converted to the scale dimensions and the respective dimensions of each item listed in the same row of a multi-row table.

Which is one easy way to keep the discussions factual (as some of the hardcore LGB fraternity learned), kind of hard to dispute measurements.
And why do we get such “fluffy snow jobs” of reviews in certain NA mags? Could it be a cultural difference?

#42
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
And why do we get such "fluffy snow jobs" of reviews in certain NA mags? Could it be a cultural difference?
Business culture, maybe... they're more afraid of offending their advertisers than misleading consumers...
#43

Mike-
“There is also too much of the “masterclass” stuff , the arrogance of they who consider themselves masters is beyond belief.”

I hope you weren’t discussing our original Masterclasses on-line - afterall, we came up with the term back in 2000 for our on-line modelling articles.

I used nothing but $1 craft knives and a steel ruler, and a drill for the Masterclass projects. I didn’t even start out to be or intend to be any kind of Master - just organised the thing the built the models to demo the techniques. Still dont have much in the way of tools, just a knife, ruler and drill. It costs nothing to research prototypes, learn and explain the hows and ways of a design, which was the real point of my classes. It also takes no cost to take your time, assembly a model carefully and paint it carefully. The sheet styrene we used at the time cost $10 for a 4’ x 8’ sheet and thanks to people in the plastics industry in the classes, we had those sheets cut into smaller lots for people to obtain for much less. We built scale models, researched history, had the support of the industry supplying parts ‘at cost’, no markup and did a great job and we all learned from each other- the mode quality was great, people pushed themselves to build quality that was hard to distinguish from a commercial model…it doesn’t have to cost money to do that…time patience and yes maybe $10 a month rather than blowing $10 on one crap item that isn’t used again.
Most classes had the option to make more yourself and buy less, or options to buy more and make less, depending on the level of scratch building you wanted to undertake or the time involved. It was us at MLS or used the term masterclass for this type of on-line model classes, i’ve not seen this in magazines, - so I hope this wasn’t aimed at me - sorry if you feel I am that arrogant if that is the case. I prefer to say positive things about peoples work on line and the effort they put in, regardless of how much or little they spent, and I’m glad you’re having fun, thats what is is about - thats what we were about too.

Re GR I’ve really not seen much in there that assumes great ability or a shop full of lathes, far from it. For the most part the articles are levelled at the beginners, at least from what I’ve seen.

Best wishes to you.

David.

#44

Hi David
I think that should have been addressed to Mike not Mik.
Mick

#45

My Appologies, yes Mike, indeed, I dont post here much, so I dont know the personnalities. Final point - even those with lathes, electronic backgrounds etc, develop some pretty amazing skill that they can use in the hobby - all the better for them! Again, doesn’t usually cost anything to learn.

#46

(Sigh!)
No , David , I was not getting at you personally , but about those who think themselves better than most of us , and you did not invent the term “Masterclass” . I have no intention of delving into the history of word derivation , I am simply trying to make a point .
The rest of these comments are directed at anyone who cares to read them .
The question was , “What do you want in GR mag?” .
So I have given an honest reply . If that does not accord with your views , tough . If you don’t want , don’t ask .
People should also ask themselves why the same authors keep popping up with articles . Other authors not in"the club"? . That also leads to elitism .
I left another site because of rank elitism , if you don’t believe that , well , tough again . But I will mention an instance where I started to do what was intended as a series of posts on how I do figure painting and some crass idiot immediately posted “If you really want to know how to do figures , look at …” . That was before I had even had chance to show any examples .
The other pet hate of mine is when someone has saved up for who knows how long , buys a model then gets sneered at because it does not fit some narrow minded moron’s tick box . This is translated in magazine format (and web format) in criticisms that , while justifiable in the eyes of the critic , can be unsettling to the poor bugger who’s spent his hard-earned on the very item being criticised .
As an aside , I was in a model shop when a customer told a very excited kid who had saved his pennies “you don’t want that rubbish sonny” . I took him out of the shop and showed him the error of his ways .The shopkeeper thanked me for getting rid of a bloody nuisance . Think before you speak applies as much to writing as to talking … . That applies in mags and on the internet .
Criticism is OK if the article does not start with “I was very disappointed with this model…”. That is a personal comment and sets the reader into a negative frame of mind . For example , if you want accuracy , pay accuracy prices , otherwise cut your cloth accordingly . Don’t judge the item against something costing a lot more . If an item has cost £200 against another at £2000 , it ain’t going to stand comparison , is it ?
I think I may go back into hibernation now .
Wake me if you must .

Mike

#47

An approach taken by “Fine Woodworking” is to present a project (armoire, table, whatever) as if for experienced hobbyists, along with a collection of articles on specific skills or techniques associated with the project.

This allows the same subject to be used both as a resource for the experienced player and the newbie alike.

I picked up my first copy of GR at the hobby shop late last year. Liked it. Subscribed.

I’m sure that ten years from now I’ll smile indulgently at the failure to use 3D printers or onboard processors on every car, but, today, it’s fun for me!

#48

Thanks Mike M!

Well put. As a general newbie to the G gang, and a lot of DIY building I to churringe at some of the replies.

I would not be here today if it weren’t for those beginner projects that i took the plunge to try. I have built Flat Cars, Box cars, Cattle Cars, Shorty Caboose, and a whole string of 10’ Quarry Flats, from the pull out planes. Having built several cars I now needed trucks for them, They cost 3 times as much as the cost to build the car. GR had a simple “You to can do this” about casting your own stuff. Guess What? I Now cast my own metal trucks, bolsters, and talgo coupler mounts.

I’m now thinking about doing my own figures, The GR articles make be think that i can do it instead of $8-12 each.

One BIG change desired: Force the Ads to list the scale of the pieces they are selling.

GR Keep up the great work!

#49

“Too much Masterclass stuff”

Really? WHERE?

I havent seen anything like that, its always mostly basic and a few intermediate level projects but I sure don’t recall anything that required the hardware your talking about. If anything from my perspective there havent been any challenging projects in GR in years. Its really targeted at beginners

#50

@Michael: I learned a lot of my various skills following projects just like that. “Build this” and then articles “Here’s how do to this”.

#51

Then there are the rest of us that just throw track on the ground and run stuff outta the box…

#52

Thanks for the correction Mr Fletcher – I be a mangler, not a master :stuck_out_tongue:

Mike, the sneer factor ain’t NEAR as big in gauge 1 as in HO, but yes, we probably really should watch and make every effort avoid it. Anyhoo, I’d say those who really ARE masters should be right proud of the term (but they’re often humble about it, go figure). Those who just think they are, well … as long as their head still fits through the door, I guess?

Michael, the idea of sharing various techniques used to get such and such result is a grand one. Unfortunately, the “really helpful” parts are where I usually fail to stop and take a photo… a very good reminder!

One reason I’ve not submitted anything to the Klambake rag is their, “If you posted it online, we don’t want it!” attitude. Any guess what percentage of their readers NEVER saw it? Based upon their issue count and the view count of the boards, I’d guess 90%+, but you can’t fix stupid.

#53

Hmmm . No replies about anything other than elitism .
I wonder if people are frightened of upsetting someone ?
In any case , my description of elitists and their causes has been misread .
Why call a guide to a model from scratch a Masterclass ?
Who decides who’s Master ?
The fact that it is claimed to have been invented by a certain group
shows cockiness on their part to say the least .
Of course you can learn from their writeups , but how many people are
deterred by the very term “Masterclass” ?
It is elitism , pure and simple , and not conducive to making our hobby grow .
How often do you hear “Oooh , I couldn’t make anything that complicated” .
Do you respond by telling them to follow the Master ? Not too encouraging , is it ?
The response should be " Give it a try , there are magazines which show from
scratch how to do it AND nobody will look down on you for trying and getting it wrong"
As for there not being signs anywhere of elitism , try reading a few more magazines ,
it is rampant throughout the model world .
Again , may I remind you that the question was asked , I am giving my answer .
Back to bed .

Mike

#54

Thanks Mike,
Thats all good! Yes I took Masterclass from my old Music lessons etc, and applied it to some model building articles - not seen the word used in the train hobby before is all, not trying to claim it, just Masterclass tends to reflect those old classes. Your comments are fine with me!

Mik - sorry, didn’t aim anything at you. Hope there were not other Miks or Micks on this board I messed up! Roger Roger, get the Vectors Victor…

David.

#55

On the subject of “Master Class”, is there enough of an interest from both a writer, and a reader, for something similar here? A detailed “Build it” type of class, maybe twice a year?

#56
Bob McCown said:
On the subject of "Master Class", is there enough of an interest from both a writer, and a reader, for something similar here? A detailed "Build it" type of class, maybe twice a year?
I'd like to see something like that. I have all the rolling stock I will ever need, but need help with buildings and turnouts.
#57

(Crawl Crawl) That’s a good idea Bob , I hope you can get something started along those lines . Oh , gawd , I just realised what I wrote . No pun intended and all that .
Yes , It could be made to work , I think that a certain consensus would need to be arrived at as to how to proceed .
For example , take piccies , lots of them . Explain why you did what you did , address the alternative ways of achieving your aim (For example , a long time ago , I put a photo of a scratch built railbus on here , when I said it was made of wood I was taken to task because "we don’t work in wood here " So I should have shown the identical one I made in plastic for a friend to show an alternative material )
Materials are important .
Brass carriages are fine until you try to pull four of them up a scale gradient and burn out your loco . So suggest a banking engine to assist , or show how plastic can look just as good . Either way , you are not pinning down your options .
Stress the need for a correct approach to the project , for example , solder the smaller bits on later because if you put them on first they all gently slide down the boiler or footplate as you manfully apply 6 Kw of heat within a couple of inches of them . They do leave a nice shiny trail though , don’t they ?
Why use superglue versus quick set araldite , etc., suggest where components may be ordered from .
Hard work writing up how to .
David , your reply was as generous as your modelling skills . Thank you .
Mik , sneer factor worse in HO ? I use that scale too , but find that the “Look what I paid for this model” crowd excel in Garden Railways . After all , where can you buy an HO engine that cost as much as my Kiss Swiss Locos . Or my Schoeba locos -----see what I mean ?
And , Mik , where your skills fall down , are you :
a)-being too hard on yourself ?
b)-being persuaded by someone who never made anything–including mistakes ?
c)-thinking that others will criticise ?
For a) above , experience is only gained by effort .
For b) tell them to bugger off .
For c) Don’t show and tell unless you are confident enough to act on FAIR criticism .
I used to do kit building reviews for magazines , but found that I did not enjoy building for other people .
If any of you take up the challenge that Bob has thrown—and it is a challenge—make sure that you do not lessen the enjoyment of your hobby .

Mike

#58
Steve Featherkile said:
Bob McCown said:
On the subject of "Master Class", is there enough of an interest from both a writer, and a reader, for something similar here? A detailed "Build it" type of class, maybe twice a year?
I'd like to see something like that. I have all the rolling stock I will ever need, but need help with buildings and turnouts.
Steve,

There are several how-to write ups on turnouts mine being one of them complete with materials and tools list.
On the tools, I usually recommend stuff that makes the job easier, getting frustrated is for those who have the time for that! :smiley:

On the buildings, most of what I build can be followed on the RhB-Forum; since most of it is specific to the prototype and not all that interesting for the general public. The same applies to rolling stock and such.

#59

I’d be very much interested in a detailed ‘build-it’ type of article.

#60
Randy McDonald said:
I'd be very much interested in a detailed 'build-it' type of article.
Randy,

How many pictures did you take of that trestle? That would make an excellent “How I built it”. And don’t give me the “but I have all the tools to make the job easier” routine, but please tell us what adhesives you used etc. etc.! :wink: :slight_smile:

And for those guys who are afraid of their table saw, point out which precautions to take.