Large Scale Central

Waverly Southern's BDT&L Ry Track Plan

Track and Trestles
#41

Steve, I actually downloaded that PDF several years ago and have been using it as my general guide. If I am not badly mistaken, Richard put his posts in the ground too.I haven’t seen him post here recently, though. I would love an update on how he likes his design and how it has held up in the wet Oregon climate.

John, the Simpson ties have crossed my mind. We’ll see. Nothing has been set in stone … er… concrete so to speak yet. I am certainly listening to everyone’s suggestions and will make a final decision soon as I would like to get the first 3 or 4 sections up over the next few weeks if nothing else as a trial run.

#42

I’m hoping Dan doesn’t listen and does things his way. Perhaps he might prove there is another way to do things? As the old school crew here already knows I like to think outside of the box myself.

#43

Rooster, I’m an outside the box thinker myself and generally don’t do things just because that is what everyone else is doing or have always done. I usually try to be innovative. But Fred, Ken and the others are absolutely correct about putting the wood in the ground. There are major issues with it that realistically cannot be overcome, only prolonged. At some point in time, it WILL be a problem. The question I have to ask myself is how much risk am I willing to take to get what I want? Am I willing to roll the dice and have to replace posts when I’m 70+ years old. Which, BTW, would be fairly straight forward, I think, simply add posts to either end of the cross beams and sit them on pavers as Fred suggested or the concrete post blocks as Ken is currently doing. I may be over simplifying that process, but that’s the way I see it in my mind.

Guys, please don’t get the impression that I am one of those folks that asks for advice and only heeds it if said advice is what I wanted to do anyway. That is far from the truth. I am listening and reevaluating. The single post concept can work, that I am sure of, but maybe not the way I originally presented it. Everyone’s comments and suggestions have made me think a little deeper and ask myself more questions and in the end, together, WE will make a better product.

#44

Dan,

I have been watching this because it is very similar to what I want to do. The main difference is I plan to set mine up with return loops both ends for continuous running when desired. My route will also be a logging / narrow gauge focus that will be built on elevated benchwork. Currently I’m in the sketch / erase / repeat stage. I also have a couple of suggestions / opinions for what you are doing.

  • If you want to put the post in the concrete directly, there is pressure treated lumber rated for ground contact. Any decent lumber yard should be able to get it for you, if they don’t have it in stock already. An alternative would be to replace your 6x6 wood post with 4x4 steel ones. Far more resilient when it come to ground contact, and you would find the price would be fairly close between the two.

  • I basically plan to split my layout in half for operations, with the main yard & sawmill being midway. Geared locomotives coming off the mountain with fresh logs will be fueled and service here before returning to the logging base camp. At the camp, only water facilities will exist, with a small pile of coal for shovel loading if needed. Camp will also include a small single loco shed for light repairs of locos and cars. Any heavy repairs would have to take place in the yard facilities. All of that is just to add a few extra movements with the locomotive before it returns to it’s duties. Could easily be something you can do to add a bit of operational interest to your line too.

Chris

#45

I think even pressure treated wood will rot, just termites won’t eat it. I believe the problem with encasing in concrete is drainage, the concrete makes a nice bowl to contain water and keep the wood wet. I wonder if just surrounding the track with coarse, but well tamped gravel would not actually be superior?

Greg

#46

Just thought that I’d throw this in… Some 60 years ago, my father set steel 2 inch OD pipes vertically in concrete to form the base of fence posts, then bolted the wood fence posts the the steel. My daughter lives there now, and last summer just restained the fence for the first time in 60 years. The fence posts are no worse for the wear, good for another 60 years.

#47

I’ll bet they were galvanized…

Greg

#48

Greg Elmassian said:

I’ll bet they were galvanized…

Greg

You’d probably win that bet, too. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#49

Chris, I am definitely still in the sketch, erase, repeat phase.  Thank goodness for CAD software otherwise, I would have killed a bunch of trees with all the paper I would need.  I have used the "For Ground Contact" treated posts before.  My deck is supported on about 40 of them.  But no matter, wood in the ground is going to be an issue, it's just a matter of when.  I am still considering steel posts.  I have access to 8x6 and 6x4 steel tube that was originally used to support an awning system in a local downtown area.  I still haven't abandoned the concrete idea either.  I think that is the best permanent solution, but as with the steel there are some constructability issues I have got to get worked out to make it worthwhile from a time and funding perspective.  I like working with concrete but it is not very forgiving.  I am currently building an outdoor wood fired oven and have one final, elevated slab to pour and then I will have about 4 weeks to work on the actual construction of the layout.  I plan to use that time to build ~20 feet of benchwork using a single concrete post design (3 posts total) as a proof of concept.  I will put a timesaver layout on it so I at least have a place to play with the trains while I am building the logging layout. 

 

On the operational side, you mentioned placing the main yard and sawmill "midway" between the log base camp and …... what?  Is the base camp on the opposite side of the yard and mill from the actual logging operations? 

 

Greg, you are correct about the wood.  And although the gravel will allow water to drain and move more readily, it too absorbs and retains water, just to a lesser degree than concrete.  There are contractors who swear by the stone version.  I personally don't think the stone is superior to concrete from a structural standpoint, but it may in fact prolong the life of the wood. 

 

Steve, My Dad has used the 8x6 and 6x4 posts I mentioned earlier for the last 30 years as corner posts and pull posts on his farm and they are still in great shape. 

#50

OK, I have basically divided my layout into 2 sections. One half would be more logging / mining focused with some steeper grades and tighter curves. The other half would be focused more toward “mainline” narrow gauge operations. (Rod locomotives, passenger service, livestock etc.) The idea being the logs come off the hill to the sawmill / yard area. After processing the NG takes the lumber away. Below is the current schematic that I’m working on. What is in green would be the NG operation. I am actually looking to expand this run. The blue is the logging area, what is noted as “Main Log Camp” is where the small facility would be and the geared locomotives would be kept. The logging area will rise up to actually make it’s return loop above the NG line. The red area is the shared area (really belongs to the NG), this is where the town, main yard, large facilities and the sawmill would be. This also allows me to set the layout up for continuous running for the days I just want to watch trains “go-round.”

Legal text: All of this is subject to change with the push of the delete key or a brain wiff. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

#51

I’m following you now, Chris. That is similar to my plans except for the return loops.

#52

Dan one issue with the single post idea is having it heavier on one side due to hills ,mountain, rocks etc. Worry about it tipping or breaking?

#53

Pete, my plan for those type structures is to leave out the benchwork in that section and build up a concrete block and compacted soil fill or light weight concrete fill a couple feet high and then build the heavy scenery on that. That’s the plan anyway. At least right now, this minute. Check back with me in five minutes and it is subject to change.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#54

yeah wife and I are talking again about building up as opposed to the ground level/ get something going to play with idea. Go back and forth every day on what to do, going to get hit by trains going both ways iffin I don’t get out of the middle of the road!

#55

Seems we are traveling down the same path, Pete. I have been “butt modeling” the layout for years. I think I am finally to a point where I know what I want, Now I just have to find the time to put it all together. I hope to get the final slab poured on the outdoor oven over the next two weeks and then I will have a few weeks to concentrate on getting part of the layout built.

#56

Well bringing this up to the present , since you are getting close to starting, and to kind of heckle you to get it going once winter quits bothering us all!

#57

Thanks, Pete. Sometimes we just need a little nudging to get started. As I mentioned in the other thread, I have settled on a track plan for the first phase (of many). It will include about 60 feet of benchwork. The layout will be elevated not unlike Ken’s. One difference is I plan to maintain a minimum height of 36" but there will be places that the track will be 6-7 feet on one side of the benchwork and 3’ on the other due to the topography of the layout area. The towns will have benchwork that is 6’ wide and accessible from both sides so the longest reach is 3’ which I can handle. Not all benchwork will be that wide, some areas will be 2’ wide. The first phase will be the town of Bear’s Den. It will have several rail served customers, engine servicing facilities and engine house. Future phases will expand from Bear’s Den to logging camps and mining areas. Bear’s Den is the home of Brown Dog Timber & Lumber.

I’m considering building the benchwork like modules. Construct a supporting structure in the layout area and then build an 8-10 foot module that will sit on the base structure. This will allow me to build the track work, scenery and topography in the shop and once completed pick it up with the tractor and take it to the layout. This would also allow for future modifications, repairs, etc to be done in the shop. Currently crunching numbers to determine approximate weight so I know how long I can build each module. The layout will consist of a series of connected modules to create a focal point like Bear’s den and then narrower modules or maybe trestles or something similar connecting to another set of modules that could be at a different elevation. Each set of modules will be relatively flat with only minor grade changes within that set. It sounds complicated but its really quite simple or at least it is in my head. Just imagine a number of towns at various locations, each built upon a series of modules 50-80 feet long combined (i.e. 5 to 8 ten foot modules) and then connected with narrow benchwork or trestles/bridges. The difficult part is designing the connecting track to maintain manageable grades.

Still a long way to go, but the first phase is straight forward because it will be relatively flat, no major grade changes, just something to get trains running. I’m finishing up drawing the trackplan now and will post when it is complete but it will be a few days yet as I am getting ready for the Mik Challenge.

More to come.

#58

Running out of excuses (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

As noted above I’m getting low on excuses for putting some track down. One of my big holdups has been switches. Well, thanks to Bruce over at SwitchCrafters, I can no longer use that one.

Received my order of 6 switches today. Bruce does a great job, so if anyone is in need of quality switches, check out SwitchCrafters.

#59

Yea, Bruce builds some nice switches, have quite a few of them in operation on the Shasta Pacific.

#60

Is it done yet?