The origin of the term “ventilator” may help understand its use.
Any explanation available?
Thanks,
Wendell
Do we really need to go there? I don’t like the term. It just creates more animosity. It’s a name that pigeonholes people and it’s written many times with malice…
Personally - any term that specifies a “group”, to me, is done to elevate the status of the “other” side.
When you start labeling groups - it does no good. Frankly - there is enough of name calling without creating more terms.
Keeripes.
Ah, but the question is WHO generated the term?
If that was known, it can not be a put-down, can it?
Interesting.
Try running “fan” through google or babelfish to German and see what you get.
Now, try “LGB Fan” and see what you get.
When someone gets around to posting the original translation, and who did it, you will be amazed.
Nobody ever made it up for them.
I thought it was a badge of honor, no?
Malice drinks one half of its own poison.
-Seneca
Well the term was coined by the translation of a message from Jack Barton on the Gartenbahn-Forum:
JB on GBF said:
Hello friends of LGB,Most of you probably don’t know of the fast moving events in Nürnberg. Wöhrl, a well respected German company, and LGB of America have made a very fair offer to keep LGB and Lehmann a viable company and maintain operations and jobs in Nürnberg. Four of the five banks involved are resisting the offer. The bankruptcy Manager Dr Geode considers the proposal to be acceptable and today has called on the banks to reconsider
their position.This may be our last chance to rescue LGB. The situation is very near
liquidation! If you are an LGB fan or honestly think the Garden Railway hobby will suffer greatly from their loss, please get involved now!The leading bank is the Deutsche Bank. Contact them through every e-mail address you can find and let them know that we want a solution that keeps LGB and Lehmann a viable company. For example you can use this link:
http://www.db.com/en/content/contact_form.htm
I have selected “Corporate Social Responsibility” as a question/statement
category.Lehmann and LGB have given many of us a great deal of enjoyment in our hobbies. I think this is the least we can do to save a great product line for the future.
Jack Barton
Alte Vista ;-(
Hallo Freunde von LGB,
Die meisten von Ihnen vermutlich wissen nicht von den schnellen beweglichen Fällen in Nürnberg. Wöhrl, eine respektierte deutsche Firma und LGB von Amerika haben ein sehr angemessenes Angebot LGB und Lehmann halten eine entwicklungsfähige Firma und Betriebe und Jobs in Nürnberg beibehalten gelassen. Vier der fünf betroffenen Bänke widerstehen dem Angebot. Der Insolvenz Manager Dr Geode betrachtet den Antrag, annehmbar zu sein und heute hat um die Bänke ersucht, ihre Position nachzuprüfen. Diese kann unsere letzte Wahrscheinlichkeit sein, LGB zu retten. Die Situation ist sehr nahe Verflüssigung von Vermögenswerten! Wenn Sie ein LGB Ventilator sind oder ehrlich denken, daß die Gartenbahnliebhaberei groß unter ihrem Verlust leidet, erhalten Sie bitte jetzt mit einbezogen!
Die führende Bank ist die Deutsche Bank. Treten Sie mit ihnen durch jede E-mail Adresse in Verbindung, die Sie finden können und sie informieren, daß wir eine Lösung wünschen, die LGB und Lehmann eine entwicklungsfähige Firma hält.
Z.B. Sie können diese Verbindung verwenden:http://www.db.com/en/content/contact_form.htm
Ich habe “soziale Verantwortung der Unternehmen” als question/statement Kategorie vorgewählt.
Lehmann und LGB haben vielen von uns viel Genuß in unseren Liebhabereien gegeben. Ich denke, daß dieses das wenige ist, das wir tun können, um eine große Produktserie während der Zukunft zu speichern.
Jack Barton
I bolded the appropriate sentence and added the italics to the specific term. It was all part and parcel to spam the “Deutsche Bank” in as many languages as possible. A similar effort was started in French, but I didn’t track that particular one. However reading about the “LGB Ventilator” was just too good to pass up, anyone with even a very basic grasp of German should have caught it.
To which I would say “It pays to proof read!”. :lol:
PS Just in case “Someone” should ask “where is the link to the original?” voilà http://www.gartenbahn-forum.de/s.php?m=289788
John Joseph Sauer said:Is that why you behave like you do?
Malice drinks one half of its own poison. -Seneca
Stephen Podwojski said:
Do we really need to go there? I don't like the term. It just creates more animosity. It's a name that pigeonholes people and it's written many times with malice...Personally - any term that specifies a “group”, to me, is done to elevate the status of the “other” side.
When you start labeling groups - it does no good. Frankly - there is enough of name calling without creating more terms.
Keeripes.
Pod,
It is not every day that one gets to observe how certain people instigate a SPAM campaign targeting the CEO of a large bank.
It is also not every day that one ends up with email proof of who is really pulling the strings and who is part of that group. It was a classic example of “Amateur Hour”.
But on many a day certain people tried to pass off a lousy Google or Babel Fish translation as the “real McCoy”, there are times when facts are stranger than fiction and the “birth” of the “LGB Ventilator” is a case in point
But one knows: no sooner were items from the German press and other published sources translated and the “spin” would start. It goes all the way back to Sept 18, 2006.
Associate plenty of spin with lots of hot air being moved, it isn’t far fetched that there are some “LGB Ventilators” at work.
Stephen,
You pretty much hit the nail squarely on the head. It’s basically juvinile “name calling”.
I find it amusing that if you don’t follow the mantra of certain individuals on this forum your “branded” as a “ventilator”.
You know it’s kind of like “Red box brigade”, “Gummi scale”, etc…
Kind of like being back on the playground in gradeschool!
DNFTT
Wendell,
For more light on this subject check the thread that starts with “the appeal”.
And then check this message, quite interesting if you ask me.
Note: I also wrote to “Deutsche Bank”, as well as to “Goldman Sachs”. I expressed a slightly different opinion from what “the appeal” tried to promote, backed up - as usual - with published facts.
CBC used to have a program called “Counterspin”, I used to watch that quite regularly.
John Joseph Sauer said:
Stephen,You pretty much hit the nail squarely on the head. It’s basically juvinile “name calling”.
I find it amusing that if you don’t follow the mantra of certain individuals on this forum your “branded” as a “ventilator”.You know it’s kind of like “Red box brigade”, “Gummi scale”, etc…
Kind of like being back on the playground in gradeschool!
I guess you’re just slipping.
Would have expected a stronger psychotic response than that.
All this time, none of the crowd so named has complained that I recall, so we all figured that was the name you wanted (like, “liberal democrat”).
Of all the terminology, “Ventilators”, as coined by Der Krazy Kollector, is by far the most descriptive.
We probably need to get a thank-you to Jack published in the new Märklin Telegram when it comes out.
BTW, you have a technical issue with “Gummi Scale”?
“Der Krazy Kollector”
We’ll add that one to the juvinile name calling list for you.
John Joseph Sauer said:I kinda like that one! Watch for "Der Krazy Kollector®" soon. One has to be a little crazy to collect the detail our close knit group follows.
"Der Krazy Kollector"
I mean, did you know that there were four different molds for the lowly #4044 (0)?
Jack
Let’s see, someone wants to give someone a hard time for calling people ventilators.
Turns out the ventilators called themselves this in the first place.
Then TOC has to explain it more for JJ, who apparently can only read the 2nd post in any thread, completely missing the explanation.
JJ further thinks that Der Krazy Kollector is name calling, not realizing that is the handle picked by an individual for himself.
So JJ, after inserting foot into mouth for step one, and then shoving it up your throat to the kneecap, are you game to keep going?
Jeeze, what’s next? Oh yeah, TOC calls me Greg Elmassian, add that to his juvenile name calling. Take that Dave!
I crack myself up.
(oh JJ, get a dictionary or a spelling program, it really looks silly when you misspell your “zinger”, see juvenile)
Maybe so Greg, but it pretty obvious that no matter who came up with the term or what it means (or how it’s spelled) it’s still being used as an insult.
Jack Barton said:John Joseph Sauer said:I kinda like that one! Watch for "Der Krazy Kollector®" soon. One has to be a little crazy to collect the detail our close knit group follows.
"Der Krazy Kollector"I mean, did you know that there were four different molds for the lowly #4044 (0)?
Jack
Jack,
Attention to detail helps a great deal, even when you read press reports, posts on fora and other such communication. You just never know what “little treasures” you find. 
Now on those four different moulds, are any of them close to any given prototype? Or is it strictly “that looks kind of close” as usual? As far as I know there was/is a whole slew of “off the shelf” rolling stock for FRRs.
Greg Elmassian said:
Let's see, someone wants to give someone a hard time for calling people ventilators.Turns out the ventilators called themselves this in the first place.
Then TOC has to explain it more for JJ, who apparently can only read the 2nd post in any thread, completely missing the explanation.
JJ further thinks that Der Krazy Kollector is name calling, not realizing that is the handle picked by an individual for himself.
So JJ, after inserting foot into mouth for step one, and then shoving it up your throat to the kneecap, are you game to keep going?
Jeeze, what’s next? Oh yeah, TOC calls me Greg Elmassian, add that to his juvenile name calling. Take that Dave!
I crack myself up.
(oh JJ, get a dictionary or a spelling program, it really looks silly when you misspell your “zinger”, see juvenile)
Greg,
That is the advantage of using several different names/personalities in the fora. Screw up royally with one name? No problem, there are three or four others you can use to “set things right”!
“JJ” and his many other incarnations make full use of that. Of course it’s hard to imagine that any of those many feet would miss that “one big yap”.
Wendell,
BTW did you give the term “Foamers” any thought?
That is a derivative of the “Ventilators”; happens when the “Ventilators” are up to high speed and sputtering at the same time. Commonly referred to as “moist or liquid diction”, when that hits the fan: instant foam!
I wonder what they call it when the sh*t hits the vent…er…fan.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:You are probably confused. The 444/4044 molds were first created in 1973/74 and were never part of the FRR program. Most people who have been with LGB over the long haul know that they were simply toys and meant to be from first design for inclusion in the battery sets. I'm sure all those three to five year old were stricken with angst when their pre-school rulers came up short/long or whatever, let alone not being able to find a prototype for a wagon that was normally locally made on many little lines. You must have had a really tough childhood to dislike toys so much.
Now on those four different moulds, are any of them close to any given prototype? Or is it strictly "that looks kind of close" as usual? As far as I know there was/is a whole slew of "off the shelf" rolling stock for FRRs.