Large Scale Central

Trainworld getting out of G?

General Discussion
#1

My wife and I just got back from NYC and on the way down I convinced her to stop off at Trainworld in Brooklyn. I thought the store would have been bigger but oh well. The store had mostly O scale Lionel starter sets and not too much G scale towards the back. I spoke with a nice lady there and told her how I have been seeing their ads in Garden Railways and over the years I have bought several items from them and then she dropped the bomb. Trainworld is getting out of the large scale business.

The owner used to really be into the G and actually traveled to Germany for LGB each year but after the bankruptcy we all know the rest of the story. She told me that the room to the right used to be filled with largescale but is now a stock room. She said that the demand for G is down given people don’t have the money or the room it requires. G is a niche within a niche hobby after all. It was nice to see parents and kids in the store buying trains.

I remember when Trainworld had 4 pages of ads in Garden Railways then they went down to 1 and I thought it was the recession but it was actually due to they are phasing out the large scale trains.

#2

Hopefully one day we will see an upturn in the market again, I was recently looking through some old issues of Garden Railways, and was amazed at how big some of the ads were, St. Aubin, Trainworld, Charles RO., Nicholas Smith.

Nico

#3

Yes i believe G scale is getting more and more limited. and cant. believe the prices people are asking for rolling stock and engines from companies that are no longer around To get parts from, because of thier items didn’t work correctly. kind of like mircosofts first version of train simulator. developers did not take into accout that engines have front couplers as well ad rear couplers. I am now in my 4th year in G scale . my layout still has a long way to go. i use DC track power, because thats what i know.

#4

I am glad I am into it now and like to scratch build stuff. It hink if we want to play in G that will be how we do it. I have been told by many here that is the way it was done in the beginning with a few limited suppliers and a lot of creativity.

#5

Worst part is Trainworld has great prices on g scale, I have many boxes laying around from them.

#6

I can’t say that I am terribly surprised that they are dropping large scale. Between the price increases and the diminished supply sources its no surprise their sales are probably way down compared to years ago. Also that we haven’t had many new items in the last few years and those have been pricy. LS has been squeezed out of many people’s budgets.

What I wonder is how the loss of Trainworld ads will effect GR publication? It’s been taking hits during the recession. I hope we don’t wake up one day to find its been folded into MR magazine. Kalmbach will likely switch it to quarterly before they pull the plug entirely, I hope.

I’ve pretty much resigned myself to the used market from here on out.

#7

The thing to remember about Trainworld is they were never really a hobby store. Look at their banner “The Closeout Kings” They made their living buying overruns and overstock from manufacturers not buying at “regular” prices. Manufacturers don’t run excess stock anymore (in any scale) and Trainworld has had to adapt. They made out by manufacturers grossly overestimating the size of the large scale market. The market didn’t contract, it was never there.

George

#8

Gee, so are you telling me that I may never get the Olomana that I back-ordered from Trainworld?

I figured a few years back, when Trainworld quit coming to the ECLSTS that something was going on. But they still kept advertising large scale stuff, so I thought that maybe I was wrong. Maybe I was right, just off with the timing. I am usually off with time-frames.

#9

TRAINWORLD leaving large scale?

Try the only local hobby (trains and plastic car kits) shop proclaiming this Christmas was a Lionel year. “Why no LARGE scale,” I asked. Answer: “Track is up to $10 per foot, the cars are really expensive, and besides, Lionel is still the Christmas train.” The owner said he did a great business in Lionel this year. No large scale in the store. Lionel has a retentive customer base.

Meanwhile, there are no photos of a garden RR in the small store. None. Zero. As owner Richard proclaims: “Never have been as no promotional materials were ever sent by LGB or the others to promote this visual hobby.”

So the owner asks: “Are there really 30,000 readers of Garden Railways?” I wondered, if so, how many have joined the hobby in the last year?

Meanwhile, there’s the absent store windows with the LGB Stainz Christmas Train running 14 hours a day; the circle of track around a live tree at Home Depot with a static train; and the club layouts with a display at the malls sponsored by the manufactures and the remaining train stores. Public exposure appears to be limited. Yet, our club gets requests for displays - eight nights at a “meet Santa at the outdoor mall” in nearby Laguna Niguel. No conversations on how to bring one home for the kids other than bringing them to the mall next Christmas.

Conclusion: Before large scale disappears commercially, some think-tank reasoning on marketing and product recognition is needed. More than that: Who has really done the work promoting? I say it certainly has not been the manufacturers taking advantage and arranging public display opportunities. Instead, it has been the clubs and their volunteers using their own trains. There are volunteers at the ready to lay track and run the trains. Just ask.

.

#10

The problem is the market is flooded with used items for sale. it is killing the new market. the manufacturers are getting gun shy. they are afraid of making a large investment into a new product that might sell well or worse yet sit on the shelf for a long period of time. it’s tough time right now. young people are more interested in electronics than trains. I mainly sell G-Scale 98% of my inventory is G. so if TrainWorld isn’t selling G-Scale, RLD Hobbies is.

#11

Robby Dascotte said:

The problem is the market is flooded with used items for sale. it is killing the new market.

I believe you are euphemistically referring to the old people dying. I experience something similar in the art world as art from estates is tossed out by the heirs.

May I make a completely selfish, self-centered statement? I think I’ve come to the realization that I don’t give hardly a damn if all the g-scale guys go out of business or not because I like used stuff and, on top of that, I have enough used and new equipment to keep me busy the rest of my life, including track, which, all in all, I’m very happy I bought when prices were a lot lower. I have more than enough for the rest of my life; in fact, I’ve sold off a lot of stuff myself once I got past the initial tendency a lot of modellers have when we jump into the hobby, namely indiscriminately buying way too much stuff.

#12

Regular plastic DC track powered large scale trains may be fading into obscurity, but I can assure you the Large Scale live steam market is very buoyant.

New “stuff” in all scales is appearing all the time. Along with a booming after market for kits to compliment the finger burners. Cottage industries are doing very nicely thank you.

#13

Tony,

I think your right on that cottage industries will win this one. It has been said this is a niche market in a niche hobby and with the coming on of 3D printing and other cottage industries willing and able to cater to individual tastes and needs more so than the big guys, I think we will see a rise in their businesses. The used equipment means bashing and the cottage industries will cater to that as well. Maybe its just the way I think but I already am in that position. I can’t pay the prices for new stuff from the regular outlets. So I am relying on used stuff and one off parts and bunch of creativity. Maybe as a scratch builder I am entering this game at the right time. Just need to secure my stash of track and I thin I will be OK

#14

About three years ago, I stopped working on my 1/20.3 railroad “stuff” and went back to my real passion of doing 1.5" scale or 1/8th scale ride-on trains. I can buy code 1000 “West Coast” aluminum rail and the ties for the rail at nearly the same price as stainless steel code 250 with ties. Many more vendors for detail parts for locomotives and rolling stock in 1/8th scale than were ever available for LS. The so-called “G” scale businesses and manufacturers priced themselves right out of the market when they started raising the cost of G scale track about ten years ago. Aristo led THAT parade and look what happened to them! I’m not surprised that Train World is getting out of G. AND I also won’t be surprised to hear that Garden Railways Magazine will go the way of Aristo. Since I quit my subscription for that magazine a couple of years ago (because of lack of good content and a MUCH thinner magazine with nothing but pages of advertisements from the few vendors still in business), I receive many emails daily from GR trying to give me deals to renew my subscription. Why didn’t they give me these “deals” when I was a long-time subscriber?? The “G” scale hobby is definitely a niche hobby inside of the small niche hobby of model railroading. It’s all from “another time” sadly. When those of us older folk pass on, this hobby WILL slowly die away.

I will say however, the higher end manufacturers like Aster and Accucraft, etc. (especially in steam) seem to be doing well. These companies have a wealthier clientele that aren’t affected by higher costs in this economy. That’s the big difference.

#15

Hi Devon.

Before I got involved with battery R/C nearly 30 years ago I was a small cottage industry making kits and kit bashing parts for H0n30" stuff running on N scale track. Also dabbled in 0n30" on H0 track.

Funky narrow gauge is still my interest today, although the models are now bigger in 7/8" scale using both 45 mm gauge and 32 mm gauge track. Lots of S/H motor blocks for powering these sometimes weird and wonderful contraptions in both gauges.

You are quite right that 3D printing is going to be the biggest spur for the cottage industries to prosper.

Gary, to give you an idea of the size of the Live Steamer market, Argyle recently made a run of at least 152 Live Steam and Electric 16 mm scale (about 1:19) ubiquitous VR Na locos.
They retailed for around A$3,000 and were completely sold and paid for before delivery. Mostly in Australia.

#16

When I got into large scale, I had the same thought Devon has. I just didn’t stick too at as much. My thought was that I could scratch-build and kit-bash my rolling stock and locomotives. That’s where the model railroad hobby started from, and, sadly, those skills have been lost and forgotten by so many. But on forums like this, we can share those skills, tricks, and techniques, and as long as people continue to run large scale trains, the hobby will be alive.

HO is king in model railroading. Lionel (O scale) is strong. N is fairly strong. S scale, large scale, and such are niche scales and as such will always have sparse new products available. Folks like Mark are stepping in to print stuff for our scale, and folks like Burl are stepping up and making resin kits. Folks like then may be the future of large scale, with new, mass produced, injection molded models becoming more and more scarce. I don’t know. But I have plenty to keep me busy for years. My mom asked me how the demise of Aristocraft was going to affect me. I told her that, except for there no longer being spare parts (cough cough) available, it wouldn’t affect me at all.

#17

I think that is where we are going these days. I would say that if you have some trucks and couplers, you can build your own in NG with a scale rule and some wood, which is how many NG RR did it some years back. Check out the rebuilding of the D&RGW rolling stock. How ever never for get there are other sites to buy from.

Paul

#18

If Trainworld is getting out of Large Scale, it certainly looks like they want to make a killing doing so.

#19

George Adams said:

The thing to remember about Trainworld is they were never really a hobby store. Look at their banner “The Closeout Kings” They made their living buying overruns and overstock from manufacturers not buying at “regular” prices. Manufacturers don’t run excess stock anymore (in any scale) and Trainworld has had to adapt. They made out by manufacturers grossly overestimating the size of the large scale market. The market didn’t contract, it was never there.

George

Exactly. When Aristo went under TW lost a huge source of close-out product. Bachmann got smart and began limiting production eliminating another TW source. USA has always been more conservative with production runs that’s why TW never featured much of their stuff.

I did some very in-depth market analysis about 12 years ago when I was unemployed and considering a “G” scale business. My conclusion after several months of study was that the market was soon to implode so I stayed out and found a job. Best decision I ever made.

#20

That really is unfortunate about TW getting out of G. Personally my latest TW puchases have been in O .

The latest Bachmann TW pricing for the Mogul Grizzly Flats loco told me the end is near.

The other point is that puffing smoke and sound are standard loco features in O Gauge product. But not in G. Why not especially considering that Kader owns Williams Trains and therefore Kadar Bachmann has access to this puffing smoke and sound technology.

As per the rest of us, I bought my stuff at the right time. I caution all of us to not wrongly believe that they have a personal fortune in trains. We do not. Ten cents on the dollar for mint not ran used items is all we can expect to get. My stuff eventually goes to the local landfill. I will not be exploited at ten cents to the dollar and so when the time comes my collection goes directly to the landfill. Folks will tell me that my stuff has no value and so I will reply that they are absolutely correct and that is why the collection went directly to the landfill except for some key items which I will give, not sell, to some close friends. The exploiters will not be getting any of my stuff at ten cents to the dollar which is the open market value. They can pay full price like the rest of us.

So enjoy and run your trains as they basically have a monetary value of worthless once purchased. Do not worry about the devaluaton of your trains. The trains are already devalued once purchased.

Norman