Large Scale Central

Trainworld getting out of G?

Losing the middle class took away the market for plastic locos, no surprise to me that 152 live steamers sold. That fits the fewer with more imbalance facing the economy now.

I’ve been resigned to no growth since I got sick. The finer scale I gave up to play in the dirt is coming back. My over distressed plastic cars will become line side details and their trucks will support my home built flatcar fleet. I’m elevating what I have.

About the time the Challenge ends, my outside time begins out on the Sonoran Desert…

John

What I already own will keep me busy and happy until I’m too wobbly to make it to the layout and play. Sad to see the reality, but John is absolutely correct. Aristo and USA provided/does provide affordable equipment for the middle class with family’s and limited resources to play with. Smaller, elevated layouts are more manageable these days for many, and don’t justify a large inventory of rolling stock, hence perhaps another reason for the drop in new equipment demand besides rising prices. Perhaps over time, things will improve, but I suspect it will be awhile. So, have fun with what you have or acquire more used stuff. I guess the Wall Street guys will continue to buy live steam and custom stuff from Accucraft and others. In the meantime, have a merry Christmas, stay warm and look forward to spring!

Norman Bourgault said:

That really is unfortunate about TW getting out of G. Personally my latest TW puchases have been in O .

The latest Bachmann TW pricing for the Mogul Grizzly Flats loco told me the end is near.

The other point is that puffing smoke and sound are standard loco features in O Gauge product. But not in G. Why not especially considering that Kader owns Williams Trains and therefore Kadar Bachmann has access to this puffing smoke and sound technology.

As per the rest of us, I bought my stuff at the right time. I caution all of us to not wrongly believe that they have a personal fortune in trains. We do not. Ten cents on the dollar for mint not ran used items is all we can expect to get. My stuff eventually goes to the local landfill. I will not be exploited at ten cents to the dollar and so when the time comes my collection goes directly to the landfill. Folks will tell me that my stuff has no value and so I will reply that they are absolutely correct and that is why the collection went directly to the landfill except for some key items which I will give, not sell, to some close friends. The exploiters will not be getting any of my stuff at ten cents to the dollar which is the open market value. They can pay full price like the rest of us.

So enjoy and run your trains as they basically have a monetary value of worthless once purchased. Do not worry about the devaluaton of your trains. The trains are already devalued once purchased.

Norman

Norman,

Might I throw this out there. . .before you take your collection to the landfill think about this for a second. Many of us did not get in at the right time, and are middle class or worse off working saps that can’t afford to pay top dollar for things. Its not that we are trying to exploit people, we are trying to buy into a very expensive hobby on a very limited income. Guys like me need a source of bottom dollar equipment so that we can develop our empires. So don’t consider it exploitation think of it as helping a fellow enthusiast get off the ground. I am not saying give it away just for the sake of giving it away. But if you take it to a landfill after you are done with it then you get zero and you help no one enjoy the hobby you have enjoyed. But if your done with something sell it to someone for 10 cents on the dollar and you get a dinner out and they get years of enjoyment and you get the satisfaction of knowing that someone else gets to live through your generosity.

Its perspective I guess. Just my 2 cents from the other side of that equation.

Its a shame to see but the younger generation is much different today with electronics etc… You cant say its dying worldwide. I think its dying in the US. G scale is too expensive, especially when you look at the larger 1:20 scale stuff. It doesn’t help that this country always has the need for bigger things. Everytime someone wants to get into G scale I hear people say dont do 4ft dia curves go with the biggest you can fit or 20ft dia curves If you look overseas, it seems like G scale is doing well. They run smaller, more affordable stuff, dont worry about 20ft dia curves.

7/8th market seems to be doing well. I have to say Im glad I went to live steam. The live steam market seems to do well. New engines are being produced.

Im sure ebay and Facebook swap and shop doesnt help. Their is so much used stuff available.

Norman, there are two types in my mind, those who collect and see $ on the shelf and those like me, who play with them!

I got and continue to get value from mine, it isn’t contingent on making a profit. Oh probably minimum resell, due to modifications I made.

My dear old Dad used to show me advertisements for Commemorative Silver (plated) Coins and kept asking me hopefully if he could make money off them.

I told him; Maybe in 50 years if everybody else looses theirs and you have a few AND if somebody else will pay … maybe.

I see these trains in a similar way, they weren’t really worth the price when new and with many sold to ‘collectors’ they will take longer than our lifetimes to become rarities.

My stuff goes to me grand nephew, hopefully he’ll take it… if not there then a after school org. or …

Holiday Wishes to all.

John

John.

Some things do actually increase in value.

An unsteamed NIB Aster Big Boy (2nd run) has an asking price of around US$18,000 including special packing and shipping from the UK.

Any money it sells before too long, they are that rare.

Yes, some items go up in value. Not the stuff I bought, and can afford.

When folks find out that I am into trains, often times they regale me with a story about a train their dad had, and then ask what its worth today. To be honest, I have no idea about Lionel trains, that’s not my area of interest. And most of what people have isn’t worth all that much, because what they have is a common starter set. So my answer is always the same. “Its worth what someone is willing to pay for it.” A book or resource may say its worth a certain price, but if you can’t find a person willing to spend that much, then its not “worth” that much. If you can find someone willing to spend more, then its “worth” more.

My trains are worth a lot to me, because I enjoy them, I play with them, and sometimes I add details to them. Some I kit-bash, some I scratch-build. I don’t give a hoot what the resale value of most of them are, because used items usually aren’t worth a lot.

I do shop the used market, and I have gotten some good deals, and some not so good deals, on equipment. That has allowed me to amass a decent roster. I have way too much of some things, and maybe someday I will sell them off so someone else can flesh out their roster. It would be a shame to just throw out perfectly good trains.

Hi Shawn:

I think that the 1:20.3 move by Bachmann was a major marketing error. The 1:22.5 guys were not for the most part going to switch over and Bachmann obviously would know what the true market size of G is as they knew their actual sales figures. What interested me the most about large scale was the fact that large trains could run on a 4 foot diameter circle. If the hobbyist wants to increase that diameter then fine but the other folks were not forced to use minimum 8 foot diameter curves ( except the Aristo heavyweights which require 8 foot diameter curves )

Super detailing the 1:22.5 product line would have been a better option for Bachmann. The track gauge error is not all that bad.

TW has provided all of us with a great opportunity to purchase our trains at reasonable prices. Sad to see this end.

Norman

Tony Walsham said:

John.

Some things do actually increase in value.

An unsteamed NIB Aster Big Boy (2nd run) has an asking price of around US$18,000 including special packing and shipping from the UK.

Any money it sells before too long, they are that rare.

Right.

Used track is selling for Much more than I used to buy it new for.

I wish I knew where I could buy stuff on my wish list for 25 cents on the dollar much less 10 cents on the dollar.

Charles Ro Sold Aristo Alcos for years for $100 With Free Shipping.

Now you rarely can get a used one for that price.

And when you can, the Alco is worn and worse for wear.

It has non working sound, or smoke, with missing horns , wipers or windshields.

Heck ever Bachmann Used rolling stock sells for more that I used to buy it for New.

This year I put up Several on my Mint older Lionel (Brass Track stuff) and LGB Stuff on craigslist.

I had no problem getting what I paid for them new.

I did have to set the stuff up for people to show then that it all worked well and that did take some time.

Everything was cleaned and lubed so it was good to go.

The time I spent let them know that they were getting something that worked and also let them know that there are people who enjoy the hobby and are willing to share their knowledge.

I don’t just enjoy running and collecting trains I also enjoy talking about them too.

Selling stuff and getting a better price takes time and effort.

I know for a fact that my buddy who used to have a train store would have to spend a lot of time with some of his customers.

On bigger ticket items some guys would stop in a dozen times before pulling the trigger.

Sure he made the sale, but he had it work for it.

I would like to think that 1 out of 2 people who bought stuff from me are going to stay in the hobby.

And that is how we can keep the hobby alive.

Did I make money on the deal?

No, I did not.

If I invested the money pretty much anywhere else, I would have seen a monetary gain on the investment.

But I did not expect to get a monetary gain on my investment.

I did expect to have some cool stuff that I wanted, and I enjoyed it while I had it.

My return of investment was pleasure.

I have friends who enjoy bowling and golf.

They Rarely if ever get anything back when they get rid of their stuff, Not to mention what they pay for green fees or lane time.

Heck, look at how many guys spend their time and money in bars.

That money is gone and never coming back.

So even if we get 25% back when were are done with our stuff, was it a bad deal?

Were we not entertained.

Talk to guys who are into boats and see what they spend.

They will all tell you that a boat is just a hole in the water that you just put money into.

They do it because they love it.

And any guy who thinks that love is free never bought a woman a diamond.

I will admit that whenever I buy anything hobby related, weather its for my El Camino , Old motorcycles or Trains I always try to get the most band for the buck.

With the trains, it means going to Raritan Center to get my stuff from train shows or Ebay or craigs list or blow out sales from Train World or Charles Ro.

I also check out what an item has Sold for on ebay to get a ballpark estimate on what people are willing to pay.

The way I see it is, If you can’t be bothered to shop around to buy at the best price and you wind up over paying you should not complain when you loose your shirt when you sell.

Most of the people who buy used are are trying to buy smart, It is not their fault if the seller bought Dumb.

Dave maynard’s post hits home for me. When some people find out I am into trains, they think I have a fortune in them. Even when I try to explain why I am not rich, they just look at me with disbelief. Then there’s my wife’s cousin who would ask me every time she would be in our company, about her late husbands pre-war tinplate Lionel set. It’s her solid belief that is worth a fortune. She showed it to me once. The loco wheels are disintegrating and the passenger cars are beat to hell. But she still insists there’s money there.

Dan Padova said:

Dave maynard’s post hits home for me. When some people find out I am into trains, they think I have a fortune in them. Even when I try to explain why I am not rich, they just look at me with disbelief. Then there’s my wife’s cousin who would ask me every time she would be in our company, about her late husbands pre-war tinplate Lionel set. It’s her solid belief that is worth a fortune. She showed it to me once. The loco wheels are disintegrating and the passenger cars are beat to hell. But she still insists there’s money there.

The people who think their old Lionel trains are worth a fortune always seem to have junk.

Darryl, it does seam that way. But people hear stories about someone with an old Lionel train and they got a lot of money for it when they sold it. So they think they all are worth a lot of money. Some of the limited edition stuff is worth money, IF the seller can find the right buyer. But the starter sets and mass produced stuff, not so much.

But then again, my Uncle’s friend’s Son in law’s cousin knew a guy who’s brother…(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

There are two universal truths to buying and selling trains:

  1. Stuff is worth a fortune until I go to sell mine.

  2. Stuff is worthless until I want to buy one.

That does keep my buying and selling down to a minimum. That, and there’s not much out there that excites me. I’ve got a few pieces that I would buy for parts for projects I could see myself building someday, but the price has to be right, since in some cases I’d be just using the trucks or similar small portion of the piece.

Oddly, in all the years I’ve been in model railroading, I’ve only ever bought one thing from Trainworld, and that was just this past fall when they had a blow-out price on an LGB Davenport. I’ve been wanting to try out a Zimo DCC decoder for some time now, and my first plan was to put it in my Bachmann Davenport. My daughter (who has claimed said locomotive as her own) would have none of that, so I went looking for plan B. The LGB loco fit the bill; a small diesel switcher whose current draw was such that I could use the low-current decoder. That’s really what drives my buying these days. I get a bug to try a new product, and I go looking for an excuse to build something to accommodate it. My railroad’s too small and my storage too limited for me to acquire a large roster of equipment.

Later,

K

Norman while I can’t agree with your assessment of 10¢/$1, I will agree that our stuff depreciates faster than an Aston Martin…aside from LGB stiff and live Steam

Hi Vic:

10 cents on the dollar:

I traded in 9 Disneyland LGB coaches to Hans of Gold Coast Station. All mint cars, unopened boxes. These are the limited edition LGB Disneyland coaches. Four yellow, three cream and two blue coaches. Hans paid me 40.00 each for these coaches ( and I paid the shipping to him! ). I later viewed LGB Disneyland coaches on ebay at 400.00 each. That is the open market value of these coaches. I was really pissed off having been taken advantage of. That is why my train collection eventually goes directly to the land fill. No one will ever do that to me again. I never bought anything from Hans after that experience.

Norman

Hi Kevin:

"

There are two universal truths to buying and selling trains:

  1. Stuff is worth a fortune until I go to sell mine.

  2. Stuff is worthless until I want to buy one.

"

Exactly.

Norman

Norman, the price you see on Ebay seldom has anything to do with reality. Many years ago, someone sent me an Ebay link for a Heartland Liberty Belle locomotive, the current bid was something like $1,200. I said that aint right. So I went to the Heartland website, and they still had the locomotive in stock, and for sale for…$400.

Hi David:

After trading in the nine Disneyland coaches to Hans, I later wanted to buy three of the cream Disneyland coaches. Hans price was 300.00 each.

That is when I realised that I had been taken.

Norman

Taken, yea, $40 each to $300 each is one heck of a profit. If he paid you $40 and was selling them for $50 or $60, then I would say that was business. But $40 to $300, that’s being taken.

I have had bad experiences with certain shops around here. So I just never dealt with them again. And they are both out of business now. Part of that is the economy, and part of that is they way they treated, and lost, customers, like me.

Norman,

Boy oh boy! Wow.

That landfill idea will really show Hans!

Not.

You’ll be happier if you can forgive him and be a little older and wiser… don’t take the first offer.

Merry Christmas

John