Large Scale Central

Train Elevator

Track and Trestles
#1

Our moving plans have changed, and I am staying in my home on a steep hillside.

The yard uphill of the house is terraced, and I’d like to use a set of terraces that are about 12 feet different in elevation, with about a 100% grade between them. Of course, a straight track is entirely out of the question, and that is a heckuva lot of helix, if we go that way (300 feet of track at a 4% grade, I reckon).

Which leads to the thought of a train elevator. There’s an unused access shaft (just barely big enough for a loop, so it could house a helix if needed) to the north of the site. I could put a section of track in there and move it up and down to change levels. I’ve seen this kind of thing for N and HO, and, apart from power needs, it seems like it would be easier in large scale because of bigger dimensions and therefore looser tolerances.

Any of you-all tried this?

#2

Never did it, but did consider a vertical transfer table to move rolling stock into storage shelves.

Do you have enough horizontal space to do switchbacks ? That could be interesting.

#3

I’ve seen pictures of similar set-ups - long enough to take a train - but everyone of them was located indoors, out of the weather and in a room with a reasonably even temperature.

#4

Also take a peek at Ray Dunakin’s layout. His is also on a steep hillside, and beautifully done.

Bob C.

#5

I’ll take some measurements. I have 30-40 feet in width, so, I guess that can get me up a foot or so, but I need to trim some off the ends for train length, so that may get me to less than a foot unless I throw in two switchbacks per level.

Or I could just pack it in and make a cog railway…

#6

Oh, that Ray Dunakin’s In-Ko-Pah looks good! http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/In-ko-pah_Railroad.html

#7

How about the previously mentioned vertical transfer table concept with channels (2 at each end, similiar channel to what used on a garage door) powered by hand (so ya don’t have to worry about electrical) using a chain mech’ similiar to industrial bldg vehicle access doors (ex. vehicle service garages) !?

OR how about a version of the Yosemite Railway that I mentioned a while back to others via my mailing list " … you know of aspiring or existing G-gauge enthusiasts who wish to build a ‘layout’ but are somewhat hindered by a huge change in elevation as a major portion of their right-of-way land holdings ? They should seriously look into the “YosemiteValleyRailway Co.” for inspiration. Early last spring, I stumbled across this unique steam (powered) logging railway thru an article in the October 1987, RMC pgs 61-69 ; titled " The Incline at Incline" by Jack Burgess ! The Nov.1987 RMC issue had Jack Burgess sharing thru another article, his ho scale version of the YVR ! The logging company utilized Shays and the YVR also 2-8-0s, etc. .
some of the many web references for the YVR : http://www.yosemitevalleyrailroad.com/LOGGING.COMPANIES/Timber.1913.html , http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_Valley_Railroad . . . . "

nite,
doug

#8

Wow, thanks for those links. I did not mention that we have a full-size cable railway on the lot as well. It’s 18" gauge and rises on a 50% grade for about 80 feet. This is the third generation. When we moved in, it was just an ore bucket and an electric winch. I converted it to a wooden car, high-end electronics, and remote control so humans could ride in it. The city, on the other hand, came by later, during a construction project that had gone wild, and pointed out that there were pretty much no safety features on it. So, we now have a soulless professional system. Now that we are putting in a garden RR, perhaps I will dress the “hillivator” in the same livery, once I pick some. But I digress.

The cable railway for my layout would be closest to prototype, but it really does not get my trains from the lower level to the upper (unless I were to go with some sort of franken-hybrid system, I guess) . Cargo, yes, but I really want to move the loco too. Don’t I? Hmm. That may merit more thought.

Yeah, vertical transfer table, seems like a tenable choice. There is a hidden area with two channels in it already (former trash lift?) that, if I can find rollers for, would work. I’ll want to electrify it, of course, because that’s how I roll, but the real question is how precise I can get with positioning.

#9
Michael Moradzadeh said:
[i][/i]I'll want to electrify it, of course, because that's how I roll, but the real question is how precise I can get with positioning.
Depending on how sophisticated you want to get, you can be very precise. I used to work with optical juke boxes that could pick a platter out of a rack and insert it into a drive. Used a stepper controlled screw thread for the vertical movement that was super fast and accurate.
#10

Screw thread, eh? Like the garage door opener I was about to dispose of!

#11
Michael Moradzadeh said:
Our moving plans have changed, and I am staying in my home on a steep hillside.

The yard uphill of the house is terraced, and I’d like to use a set of terraces that are about 12 feet different in elevation, with about a 100% grade between them. Of course, a straight track is entirely out of the question, and that is a heckuva lot of helix, if we go that way (300 feet of track at a 4% grade, I reckon).

Which leads to the thought of a train elevator. There’s an unused access shaft (just barely big enough for a loop, so it could house a helix if needed) to the north of the site. I could put a section of track in there and move it up and down to change levels. I’ve seen this kind of thing for N and HO, and, apart from power needs, it seems like it would be easier in large scale because of bigger dimensions and therefore looser tolerances.

Any of you-all tried this?


Michael,

How about a few pictures and the foot print plan of this hillside site? Wouldn’t you rather run trains on track up and down that hill instead of an elevator?

#12
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
How about a few pictures and the foot print plan of this hillside site? Wouldn't you rather run trains on track up and down that hill instead of an elevator?
Good plan. I'll get out there with a camera, level, and measuring stick.
#13

Michael: here is a thought for you. I’ll throw it out and see what you think. It would be a hybrid of an Incline Railroad and a transfer table. You will have two incline sections at each end of a transfer table, Have two stationary racks spaced however long apart you would need them for your train. Then mounted to the bottom of your transfer table would be a motor driving a long shaft the length of the table to power the gears that will mesh with the racks. I have the concept rolling around my head, but it is kinda hard to express in words. But I think you well get what I am talking about. In essence it is a transfer table that has a Rack gearing system on the bottom that rides up two or more Rack up your hillside.

Dan S.

#14

Here is a very crude sketch. I still need to do proper measures. What you are seeing is a patio adjacent to the house and faced by an upslope. The patio is probably 30 feet wide. The first level is about 3 feet above ground and 2 feet wide on the left, three on the right. Let’s call that “Sea Level” On this level will be our main loop. It will start out as a dogbone, and then extend to have additional spurs and stuff. This will be a 1920’s era railroad town, with a boatyard and light industry, and a few blue collar homes. Additional benchwork on each end of the level will allow loops The next level up is a foot and a half higher, but narrow, only a foot wide. I hope to run a line there with a reversing loop that sticks out over the level below. This will be supported either with trestles or a fake hill that will also grow herbs to placate SWMBO. After that, another foot and a half higher, and wider, but heavily vegetated Next level is a path Next is a wide area roughly triangular. Gotta measure, but it’s around ten feet higher than “sea level”. This will have our logging camp, and will supply the resources for the light industry below. It’s probably 12 feet back from the lower level, so it’s pretty steep. Now, here is the fun part. To the right is an area under the deck. Visible through windows from the kitchen, so will be good for traffic and protection from weather. AND past that, at the far right, is an empty shaft, about 4 feet by seven feet. It is here that a helix, or elevator, or something could profitably go. The access to this is through a narrow slot adjacent to the house. Exciting, eh?

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cayenne/_forumfiles/smtngeo.png)

and here is an actual photo of the main slope:

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cayenne/_forumfiles/IMG_0729sm.jpg)

#15

To Dan, I am assuming that regardless of the method of getting the train up in a hurry, there will be incline sections at each end. I also plan to cheat a bit by elevating the track on each level, especially the lowest.

I have not really figured out the transition from the first level to the second.

#16

Mike
Your gona to have to move some dirt and build some retaining walls. Look for Ray Dunkin’s In-Ko-Pah railroad. His RR is built on a hillside like yours. There is also a article in GR a couple of issues back on his RR.
With a lot of work, I can see you having a nice RR in that spot.

Rodney

#17
Rodney Edington said:
Mike Your gona to have to move some dirt and build some retaining walls. Look for Ray Dunkin's In-Ko-Pah railroad. His RR is built on a hillside like yours. There is also a article in GR a couple of issues back on his RR. With a lot of work, I can see you having a nice RR in that spot.

Rodney


Ray moved more rock in a few years than some of the best drug dealers could move in a lifetime!
:slight_smile:

#18
David Russell said:
Rodney Edington said:
Mike Your gona to have to move some dirt and build some retaining walls. Look for Ray Dunkin's In-Ko-Pah railroad. His RR is built on a hillside like yours. There is also a article in GR a couple of issues back on his RR. With a lot of work, I can see you having a nice RR in that spot.

Rodney


Ray moved more rock in a few years than some of the best drug dealers could move in a lifetime!
:slight_smile:

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT

#19

Ray really moved rock when you remember he moved it from the desert to San Diego!

#20

Yer makin’ me cry, but you are clearly right that some landscaping will be required to be able to even do a single loop. This week’s project: preliminary layout, and create benchwork at ends to support turnaround loops.