Large Scale Central

Track layout design?

Track and Trestles
#1

Ok. I have to redo my layout seeing the weather got the better of me and some poor planining on my part.
I personaly blame the books I read seeing I did just what they said.

Anyway, I would like to do something more then a big oval. How did most of you come up with your lay design or was it just a matter of this is how it truned out?

I have a few big locos so the wider truns are a must so I can run them. I’m dealing with a area that is about 45 feet by 55 feet so kind of a big box.

Any ideals would be great.
Thanks

some pictures of the old layout can be seen at www.gtechdesign.com along with some video.

#2

Geoff,

The good news is - lots of room; the bad news is what would you like to model?

Ideals? I lost quite a few of those! Ideas? By the bushel load!

PS Since I do commercial layout planning I believe in layout planning. There are those who say just put down some track and let it happen. It does! in most unexpected ways!

#3

Geoff,
I can’t access your site for some reason.

SteveF

#4
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Geoff,

The good news is - lots of room; the bad news is what would you like to model?

Ideals? I lost quite a few of those! Ideas? By the bushel load!

PS Since I do commercial layout planning I believe in layout planning. There are those who say just put down some track and let it happen. It does! in most unexpected ways!


I don’t really try and model any one thing. I tryed to set up a lay out that I can let the trains run and not have to be there all the time keeping a eye on them. Have to say me and some of my neighbors did get a kick out of just sitting back and have a cold one why the trains run.

I plane on building a mountine with tunnel for the trains to go thought. I’m just trying to get away from my old way of thinking. As a kid I had a HO set up on a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood and I would like to think that I’m some what past that now.

#5
Steve Featherkile said:
Geoff, I can't access your site for some reason.

SteveF


Steve I have checked the link and it was working for me. I don’t know what to tell you.

You can try you tube I have some video up there as well. If you go to you tube look for geogeorge8 video.

But the web site has video as well as pictures of what I have done.

If that deosn’t work try to picture a big box with three loops in it on the edge of the box. the center is empty and I just can’t get past the basic loop.

I know I need and wont a loop but something more then your basic loop.

thanks
Geoff

#6

Knowing what kind of layout you want is the place to start, and it sounds like you’ve already figured that part out (continuous running, large equipment). There are many different ways to figure out the rest, depending on what suits you.

If you have a fairly flat piece of land you can just start laying out stuff on the ground, using track, string, pvc pipes, etc. Then just play around with it until you come up with something you like.

Another way to go is the plot everything out on paper or using a computer program. Some folks like doing it that way, some don’t.

In my case, I had a difficult piece of land – long, skinny, and on a steep slope. So large equipment and wide curves were out. Which is fine, I like funky little narrow gauge railroads. I’m not real big on planning everything out in detail, I prefer to start with a rough idea and work out the details as I go. So that’s what I did.

I had to dig out a lot of the hillside and fill in other parts. I started at one end, and as I went along I would lay down pieces of sectional track to figure out what fit. Then I’d dig and fill a little more, and figure out the next stretch of track, and so on.

When I got to the far end, I did have a moment of despair when it seemed like I wouldn’t be able to fit everything together. But I just kept working with it until I found something that worked, and now that’s actually my favorite part of the layout.

So that’s how I did it. It won’t work for everyone but it worked for me.

#7

Geoff, you should check out Ray’s layout. What he’s done encapsulates how to deal with a difficult piece of land while taking into account the climate of the region where he lives. He’s created a railroad that fits into, but doesn’t overwhelm, his environment. It verges on being a work of art.

I would love to see your knack for lighting and Ray’s sense of place and space put together in one place!

#8

Had a look at your web site. Looked nice. I like the dog. What happened to necessitate the rebuild ? Most layout designers think very flat. Lots can be done vertically. I’m planing a diarama / layout in a small space in my workshop trailer that will go vertically from the ceiling to 6" off the floor. ( ie. mountains and a canyon. ) You may not be able to do a canyon but a mountain might be feasable. Miniature trees growing on it can add a lot more height above the actuall dirt level. Nice trains. I look forward to seeing more as you plan develops. Good railroadin’, . . .

#9

BTW, I like your Christmas lights! Very nice display. Will the layout be part of it?

#10

Hi Geoff,

I just got a chance to check out your pictures. I had a few thoughts about your space and designing a railroad for it.

Things to think about -

-Where are your trains going? Are they going town to town? Shuttling freight between different industries? Carrying passengers from town to town?

-What part of the country are you trains. Terrains vary greatly from flat plains and deserts to sharp peaks of the Rockies. On my layout, I chose to model my backyard of central Maryland with the rivers that lead to the bay and the rolling hills of the foothills of the Appalachians.

-Currently your layout is very flat which means you can see the trains run the entire loop. Ones of the things I like best about my layout is watching the trains come in and out a view whether that’s running behind a hill or mountain pass, a “forest”, or in and out of tunnels. A sense of surprise keeps is interesting.

-What landscape and layout features do you want to incorporate in your layout? Mountains, water features (ponds and/or rivers), bridges, trestles, tunnels, with or without multiple levels of track, groundcovers, dwarf evergreens, flowering plants and rock formations are just a few items on the list to choose from.

-How will you be running your trains? Simple loops with maybe a few passing sidings and industrial spurs for modeling/scenery opportunities or more operations oriented with big yards with turn around loops, wyes or turntables or a bit of both.

When designing my layout I had to fit it into an existing garden and started simply. This past year I had more complexity and flexibility to it though I am more about creating a scene and setting for the trains to run through than operations. Click on my website to see the evolution of my railway.

-Brian

#11
Narrow Gauge Lover said:
Had a look at your web site. Looked nice. I like the dog. What happened to necessitate the rebuild ? Most layout designers think very flat. Lots can be done vertically. I'm planing a diarama / layout in a small space in my workshop trailer that will go vertically from the ceiling to 6" off the floor. ( ie. mountains and a canyon. ) You may not be able to do a canyon but a mountain might be feasable. Miniature trees growing on it can add a lot more height above the actuall dirt level. Nice trains. I look forward to seeing more as you plan develops. Good railroadin', . . .
What happend is winter. Living in the midwest played hell on my layout this past winter with heave. After talking with this great group here I learned of a better way to do the track then to let it free float.

I’m glity of the flat thinking with the first layout. With the redo I am thinking more up and down as well as flat.

A moutain has always been in the plane and now I think I can do some vallys not big one s but give the feel that there is more to it then flat land.

Once I have the track layed out and working I will do my landscaping. I thinkI was lucky in that I’m planing my layout first and then will landscape arount it instead of haveing to do the layout around the landscape.

#12
Ray Dunakin said:
BTW, I like your Christmas lights! Very nice display. Will the layout be part of it?
Thanks. I love your layout. Got some Ideals that I might have to steel from you. About half of my stuff in nerrow gadge trains. I like the Lake George and boulder stuff (last name is George) and have 4 little LGB locos and two started Locos so I can do a nice nerrow as well as have the bigger stuff running.
#13

One more thing. The layout is in my front yard. The Christmas lights and trains I would like to have them work togather but also have the trains to play with all summer. I wont people to stop and look and enjoy it as much as I am. Adding mountains and other stuff is a must. I need a loop more then a working point too point lay out.

After looking at a number of members sites I thinkI have a few ideals that can work. I just lack the creative line of thought that some of you all seem to have.

Than again I also have to keep in mind that I have been at this less then a year so far and I’m sure most of your layouts did not happen over night.

#14

I think, and I’m certainly no expert, that you’d want to avoid running all the tracks parallel to the sides of your area. That would reduce the oval appearance.

Do you want more than one train continuously running? It’s cool if you can set up separate loops that pass over or under or next to each other. You get nice scenes this way.

Put enough crossovers between your separate loops so you can switch a “Grand Tour” route where one train passes through all the loops. That was a pretty fun thing to do at Cozad’s.

For play value, put some destinations around the place. A siding with a company here, a passing siding there, a small yard over there, a spur to the mine, maybe with a switchback climbing the mountain.

You want a couple long straights where your train can stretch out.

#15

Geoff,

What are the dimensions (in inches) of the area (a basic sketch would be nice)? Are you ready to add quite a bit of fill?

#16

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Geoff, What are the dimensions (in inches) of the area (a basic sketch would be nice)? Are you ready to add quite a bit of fill?

Ok lets see if I can do this . The picture is not to scale but the mesurments are correct. They are in feet not inches. The ruff over all size is 40’ X 55’ The area now is flat. About 1.5 inches of fall over the area. I already did allthe fill. the yard use to have about 23 inches of fall. I will be doing a ladder system with the track and can get my rises and falls that way and use rock and other thins to biuld up where the track will go up from the ground level.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/geogeorge/_forumfiles/drawing.jpg)

#17
Tom Ruby said:
I think, and I'm certainly no expert, that you'd want to avoid running all the tracks parallel to the sides of your area. That would reduce the oval appearance.

Do you want more than one train continuously running? It’s cool if you can set up separate loops that pass over or under or next to each other. You get nice scenes this way.

Put enough crossovers between your separate loops so you can switch a “Grand Tour” route where one train passes through all the loops. That was a pretty fun thing to do at Cozad’s.

For play value, put some destinations around the place. A siding with a company here, a passing siding there, a small yard over there, a spur to the mine, maybe with a switchback climbing the mountain.

You want a couple long straights where your train can stretch out.


HI Tom
Yes I have desided that I need to get away from the running everything along the sides.

Yes I would like to run more then one train at a time on differnt loops. I have about 12 locos and 60+ train cars so the stock is there. They are a mix of freight and passenger cars.

I have plane on a twon setting, a freight area/rail yard, and then a country area as well so you would get the feeling of going from the city to the country. Once I add the mountine area I think I can do a point to point with say a minning business at some point.

I have been looking over all the pictures from the photos everyone has posted and have some ideals. I’m still running into truble with my BIG LOCOs I have two that need a min 8’ but would like to run them on wider then that. I have them on a loop now that is made up of 16 & 20’ curves now.

hope this helps I know I am getting ideals but I am hoping to advoid more misstakes like I did with the free floating track.
All the books don’t take into account the freezing thowing that the midwest suffers so bad. the best this year has been 75 at 1pm and then by 7pm that night it was 17 out side. play heck on the tacks that free float.

#18

Geoff,

Sorry that you didn’t make the GGRC Winter Meet because a lot of your problems and concerns were discussed. A lot of problems with track is allowing it to become established. I have quite a bit of track that free floats in the same general part of the world as you do. Each year it stays in place a little better. The expansion of the summer heat creates as many problems as frost heave in the winter. Track has been on the ground now for 12 years and is well established.

You can check out our railroad at

http://largescalecentral.com/articles/view.php?id=53

Come to a club meeting and we’ll talk.

#19
Ric Golding said:
Geoff,

Sorry that you didn’t make the GGRC Winter Meet because a lot of your problems and concerns were discussed. A lot of problems with track is allowing it to become established. I have quite a bit of track that free floats in the same general part of the world as you do. Each year it stays in place a little better. The expansion of the summer heat creates as many problems as frost heave in the winter. Track has been on the ground now for 12 years and is well established.

You can check out our railroad at

http://largescalecentral.com/articles/view.php?id=53

Come to a club meeting and we’ll talk.


Ric I was out of town on business. Winter is a bussy time for me and hard to get to all the things going on.
I’m sure if given the time free floating would work or could be made to work but I’m not willing to give it the time.
I need it to work at Christmas time with out my having to baby sit it. I put all the track down last summer and had little to know truble with expansion from the heat. The heat was harder on me then the track.

I’m thinking the ladder system will work and I can very elevations with that then build my landscape around it to hide the system. Have been looking at othes sites and pictures. Lots I can steel, sorry borrow ideals from others that should help improve my layout.

Now just need to get spring here.

#20

There has been good experience with the ladder method of roadbed here. Bruce Chandler and Bob McCown are two that come to mind immediately. I am unaware of anyone using it in this part of the country, so you can be a “beta test”. How deep do you plan to drive the uprights?