Terry Burr said:can he get an AMEN!?
Battery R/C systems really don't care about copper content, neither do I. I care about cheap track, and Lou ain't got it.
Unfortunately, I don’t consider $4.00 a foot cheap either.
At least not cheap enough for me.
Ralph
Cale Nelson wrote: Other maker’s rail will cause your trains to noticeably slow down when moving from an Aristo-Craft section to their track section due to the less copper content differences (see below). i have a hard time to picture that statement, sounds like electrons are quite picky about material, well luckily they are not. If Nelsons statement would be true, Stainless track would be an extreme bad track, engines would have to slow down extreme since steel is in general less conductive then Cooper. I use some European stainless track, mixed with my LGB track, and i see NO difference when engines cross over from one to the other. Top of all my Stainless track is not really stainless, since it tends to rust, that in Arizona (no Humidity) See Picture below. Where i partially agree with nelson is that track connectors can make all the difference. Here again i would like to point out that oxidation is a big factor, sometimes a problem. We all know that the brass inside of a LGB Joiner tends to oxidize less, so how bad are this LGB joiners really? I am sure that most of us removed such LGB Joiner and noticed the fact that there is less oxidation, but also fine dust which causes trouble. How ever there is another important factor which is often under estimated, especially for folks that place track on the ground, where people walk on that track. The mechanical connection between track is important, here i tested many versions with different results. Using at least four versions of screw on connectors, i have to say that in the end the Split Jaw clamp worked the best. The LGB version worked for a while, but with time the pressed on ends tend to open up, loosing the tight fit. Others using to skinny screws, so no real clamping force. Today i have in my yard 450 Foot of track, and i do feed in power at two places, and it works since years. What i like to say is, there are differences in track, but more important is how secure power is transfered from section to section. regards Pius
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u175/Rigibahn/100_2375.jpg)
Again…The first post of this thread is a copy/paste job from an Email as received from Lewis Polk of AC Trains…read all the way to the bottom and you see his signature…
Heck, I’m from SC; we can’t even put sentences together as well as it’s written above!
I don’t buy his argument or his track (unless it’s used and cheap)…
Please re-read the original post, again!
cale
Cale:
I see you edited the original post to reinforce the fact that you were quoting Lewis Polk / Aristocraft. May I suggest you also put the quoted text in BBCode quote brackets? Click on the “BBCode: on” link at the bottom left of the current page. The 4th item down is “Quotes”. Just follow those directions.
Hope this helps.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Cale Nelson said:
Again...The first post of this thread is a copy/paste job from an Email as received from Lewis Polk of AC Trains...read all the way to the bottom and you see his signature....Heck, I’m from SC; we can’t even put sentences together as well as it’s written above!
I don’t buy his argument or his track (unless it’s used and cheap)…
Please re-read the original post, again!
cale
hey Cale,
sorry, you are right, it is not your statement, i did no read your first line, mea culpa.
How ever, the whole statement from Lewis Polk is highly questionable, i guess Lewis Polk should consider to visit some electronic classes. My statement is that Track from different manufacturers varies only in looks and how much cleaning and maintenance it takes, the real trouble is generated when track is not perfectly joined, using low quality joiners.
Cale you wrote: Heck, I’m from SC; we can’t even put sentences together as well as it’s written above!
Well, i am born and raised in Europe, English is not my native language, so can you image my battle all the time. I belief that we should not judge the way something is written, but we should focus on content or the message.
regards Pius
P.J. makes a very good point that Mr. Polk totally avoids: If the conductivity of the parent material is so critical to good operation, why would anyone purchase Aristocraft’s expensive stainless steel track?
Here is a very generalized .pdf table showing the resistance of various conductors as compared to copper:
http://www.lscdata.com/users/jerryb/_forumfiles/ResistivityTable.pdf
Reference: ITT, Reference Data for Radio Engineers, 6th Ed., Howard Sams, 1982
This table focuses on the basic materials. Various alloys will have slightly different resistivities. Note that stainless steel’s resistivity is 52 times that of copper and 23 times that of brass. Lewis’ resistivity argument is total hogwash, regardless of what one thinks of his track.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
PJ said:
.............................Well, i am born and raised in Europe, English is not my native language, so can you image my battle all the time. I belief that we should not judge the way something is written, but we should focus on content or the message.
regards Pius
Now that is interesting! I remember attending a parent/teacher interview in '76 when I questioned the teacher why obvious grammatical and spelling errors were not being corrected in assignments.
Ahemmmmm … the answer was: Mr. Mueller, this is the Canadian school system, not the Swiss cantonal model. We value the thought process as much as correct spelling etc.
Of course I gratefully accepted the pointer, 
after all I had the pleasure of dealing with the results on a daily basis.
Pius, if it takes an extra minute to decypher the sentence/message/content, that doesn’t increase the clarity of the message. Apart from that, it has been noted that some people have a problem with composition and spelling in their native language and any other language they “acquired”.
One explanation I read for that phenomena is: Their typing is faster than their thinking. 
Jerry Bowers said:
P.J. makes a very good point that Mr. Polk totally avoids: If the conductivity of the parent material is so critical to good operation, why would anyone purchase Aristocraft's expensive stainless steel track?Here is a very generalized table showing the resistance of various conductors as compared to copper:
http://www.lscdata.com/users/jerryb/_forumfiles/ResistivityTable.pdf
This information
Jerry,
“Uncle Lewis” wrote that track blurb on a brass day, the result will be different on a stainless steel day.
Which just triggered: “What is the difference between a politician and a salesman? The former you elect and are stuck with for four years. The latter you select and if necessary “recall” at your pleasure.”
Thanks Jerry!
cale not Lewis
Jerry Bowers said:
P.J. makes a very good point that Mr. Polk totally avoids: If the conductivity of the parent material is so critical to good operation, why would anyone purchase Aristocraft's expensive stainless steel track?Here is a very generalized .pdf table showing the resistance of various conductors as compared to copper:
http://www.lscdata.com/users/jerryb/_forumfiles/ResistivityTable.pdf
Reference: ITT, Reference Data for Radio Engineers, 6th Ed., Howard Sams, 1982
This table focuses on the basic materials. Various alloys will have slightly different resistivities. Note that stainless steel’s resistivity is 52 times that of copper and 23 times that of brass. Lewis’ resistivity argument is total hogwash, regardless of what one thinks of his track.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Hey Jerry,
The conductivity of a material is just one aspect, the correct size of a “cross-section” of a conductor is more important.
Image electrical power flow like a water flow in a hose. There are two factors, Water pressure, which would be “Voltage”, and water volume, which would be the electrical current “Amp”. So for example if you take a shinny 1/4 Inch water hose, you can have a high pressure in that hose, but due to the limited cross-section a restricted amount of water flow. As bigger the cross-section of a hose is, the more flow or current “Amp” you can run throe this pipe. Now be aware that Pressure “Volt” and water amount “Amps” influence each other, they correlate in a certain way.
Let me try to explain it in a different way. I am sure you know how big a cooper core in a 115V extension cable is. A regular household extension cable can handle 10-15 Amp by 115Volt (large safety factor included). I am convinced that you agree, that any G scale track has a many times bigger cross section than any extension cable. Therefore any Track should be capable of running 4-5amp by a voltage of 20Volt. Be aware that we reduce Volt and Amps to run our trains, we use just 20v and we need also a lower current 3-4Amp, so theoretically such cable could handle our power for a train.
Now if we use stainless which is a material with lower conductivity, due to the huge size, we still have reserves to run 20V bu 3-5Amps.
My statement in the previous posting was that the rail is not our problem, that if any trouble is present, it most probably is created by the rail joiners. Rail joiners are most likely the bottleneck for any power flow. Some rail joiners do not make enough surface contact, therefore do not allow enough current to flow. Press-fitted Joiners like LGB, will deforme, fill up with dust and dirt, and over time separate the two surfaces which should transfer power. In general, screw on rail-joiners work better, because the material used is thicker. will not bend, or loose the grip.
think global Pius
I agree, the first problem to solve is conductivity between the sections of rail. Worrying about the resistivity of the metal rail when the joiners are junk is silly.
If you get the joiners conducting well, like using Hillman or Split Jaw joiners, then you can worry about trying to feed several hundred feet of track from one point, and worrying about the voltage drop.
This is the typical situation with track power and when people do not look at the big picture.
Regards, Greg
The problem of conductivity has been solved. “BATTERY POWER” No track cleaning, no expensive Split Jaw connectors, no soldering across rail ends, no multiple power feeds to the track, no problems with dead spots on switches, the list goes on and on. You could even use wooden rails if you so desired like they did on some of the lumber lines.
Can’t argue with that John. But just as I can’t afford to convert my home to solar and wind power even though I know it’s better…
Ralph
Way to go John!!!
John Spehar said:Hear! Hear! Raising my glass...........:) :)
The problem of conductivity has been solved. "BATTERY POWER" No track cleaning, no expensive Split Jaw connectors, no soldering across rail ends, no multiple power feeds to the track, no problems with dead spots on switches, the list goes on and on. You could even use wooden rails if you so desired like they did on some of the lumber lines.
Is this something new, to some of you guys ?
I’ve known this since back in the early 1980’s…and I’m no expert, but for a long while if I ever mentioned it I was stomped on…my how the World changes…
Imagine…operating a locomotive on self contained batteries, and using radio waves to control it; I wonder if the real railroads will ever think of this…!!!
The Lionel guys though, will wonder for years, how the thing runs, without a centre rail....John Spehar said:John, All:
The problem of conductivity has been solved. "BATTERY POWER" No track cleaning, no expensive Split Jaw connectors, no soldering across rail ends, no multiple power feeds to the track, no problems with dead spots on switches, the list goes on and on. You could even use wooden rails if you so desired like they did on some of the lumber lines.
That’s been working here for well over 15 years. Not a power supply, feeder wire, track cleaning car, programming track, coding device or other complex track power support device on the property! Just 100% RCS controlled, totally self-contained locomotives, along with a couple of battery chargers. A great simple system that really works like the real thing.
And I do use wooden ‘rails’ on my locomotive ‘ready’ bench: Three tracks. Just ripped down some 1/4" strips and shot them down to the bench with my brad nailer. A perfect low cost way to make storage. I plan on doing some more of my storage shelves in the near future.
You’re right: The conductivity problem is solved!
Happy RRing,
Jerry
John Spehar said:Hi John, I am sure your statement is right, battery power solves a some trouble, but if you are honest with your self, it also creates new other trouble. Just thinking about charging those batteries, charging and maintaining batteries the right way is not that easy, it takes a lot of other tools to keep battery's preforming 100%. I am aware of the memory effect on a NiMh battery, and i know about the trouble when you discharge a LiPo battery to much, if you make there any mistak, it is not that cheap to replace such battery's. In addition i think about running long trains, that is a battery draining, and depending on the space in certain engines, time until batteries are empty is not that long.
The problem of conductivity has been solved. "BATTERY POWER" No track cleaning, no expensive Split Jaw connectors, no soldering across rail ends, no multiple power feeds to the track, no problems with dead spots on switches, the list goes on and on. You could even use wooden rails if you so desired like they did on some of the lumber lines.
The way i run my engines, it would make no sense to attempt a switch to battery’s.
It is important to connect track sections electrical reliable, and in the same time there is the mechanical aspect. If a track joiner is perfect mounted, we do not have to worry about the electrical connection, if the rail is mechanical perfectly joined, the electrical connection is automatically given. A perfectly mechanical joined track should give the rail the same mechanical stability, should join two rail ends so that mechanical property’s are like there is no joiner. Perfectly connected rail sections, should give matching track heads, should be straight, and never loose the grip. I have seen to many layouts and Videos, where rolling stock is wiggling from one side to the other, looking like walking Ducks, lots of this trouble is generated using wrong rail joiners. In my yard i have 450Foot of track, and power is feed in on two places. What i like to say is that it is possible to connect rail so that for years you never have any trouble with down power because of bad joiners.
Think global Pius
Lewis also forgot to mention his wheel profile contacts more track surface area (only on aristo track) thus better electrical contact and traction. But you must use his products to truly reap the benefits. :}