Large Scale Central

Track is not Track unless you double the price overnite

Track and Trestles
#1

Following is the entire email I received from AC Trains on the 24th of June 2008…nothing below this line was written by me…I am not Lewis Polk!

Lewis Polk said:
June 24, 2008

TRACK IS NOT TRACK

YOU GET 30% LESS COPPER IN ALL OTHER BRANDS OF TRACK OTHER THAN ARISTO-CRAFT (AND USA TRACK, TRADEMARK OF USA TRAINS, NOT RELATED TO ARISTO-CRAFT)

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN G-GAUGE TRACKS.

TRACK IS NOT JUST TRACK, AND THE TYPE OF TRACK CHOSEN DOES MAKES A NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE IN THE OPERATION OF YOUR TRAINS

All other brass G Gauge track makers use a Code C28000 OR CODE 37700 Brass material that has 30% less copper in it than Aristo-Craft track does. Aristo-Craft uses Code C23400, which is 85% Copper as compared to the 59% copper ratio to zinc in the other brands.
Aristo-Craft provides screws to allow for the rail joiners to conduct power between sections and to hold the ties to the rail. Others do not and this is an expensive step in the production of track. Nothing promotes better operation than your track system!
One’s rail size is not 332, but 354 or larger. You might need a transition piece to work with the other 332 tracks on the market. Also, there is no way to secure the rail joiners to the rails and they will loosen in use out of doors. The rail is roughly rolled, not extruded through a precise mold formation to an exact size.
One uses an atypical length for their track, so some track plans will need to be modified.
One does not use the same type of flexible plastic material for its ties, so the material is not as flexible as other makers.
One’s rail joiners are press fit and are not likely to stay connected as well as Aristo-Craft’s screw method or LGB’s clip method on outdoor track.
Other maker’s rail will cause your trains to noticeably slow down when moving from an Aristo-Craft section to their track section due to the less copper content differences (see below).
Other maker’s rail oxidizes more quickly and thus requires cleaning much more than Aristo-Craft track before operating smoothly.
Aristo-Craft has a lifetime warrantee on its ties and the others do not.
Other Stainless Steel track makers use a totally different grade of Stainless Steel. Not all stainless is alike and we specifically chose one that is far more rugged in the elements as Code 304. You can ask the others what grade they use and then check the pricing on the international markets for that day. I’m talking about substantial differences in price and in performance depending on the part of the country you’re in. Anyone can buy raw materials and knock out a product, but is it the best you can get? When we started with track 20+ years ago we made it the very best we could, not less than was available on the market then. You can choose, but be informed as to the differences in the product you choose.
However, Aristo-Craft will make its 332 “Flex” track only in the lowered standard brass material to match price in this inflationary commodity period. We realize that there are people that run battery and the price, not conductivity is more essential than the quality of operation. However, we will label the packaging carefully, so you know what you’re getting. It’s up to you! I can tell you that track and it conductivity makes all the difference in the world as to the operation of your trains. The choice as an informed consumer is yours to make!

Dealers, do you really want to stock another line of track and increase your inventory costs. Aristo-Craft track is readily available from us or your favorite wholesaler to buy along with other products you get from them.

Aristo-Craft Train’s Brass Content Information

Red Brass C23400 is generally regarded as the most durable of all metals for commercial water pipe in the practical price range. Nominally composed of 85% copper and 15% zinc, this alloy is excellent for its resistance to dezincification and season cracking for which the high copper brasses are known. It has moderate strength and good retention of spring properties. Resistance to pitting is also particularly good.

Hot and Cold Working: C23400 has good hot workability and excellent cold workability. It is excellent for drawing, spinning, stamping, blanking, or any drastic cold working operations. The metal for this type of operation is furnished in an annealed condition and is classified by grain size, making it easily measurable by both the producer and the consumer, and giving a direct relation to overall mechanical properties.

Joining: Joining by soldering and brazing is excellent. Good joints can be obtained by oxyacetylene and gas-shielded arc welding. Rod, bar and wire may be resistance flash butt-welded.

Applications: C233000 is frequently specified for underground service lines assembled with threaded connections because it offers greatest corrosion resistance to all types of potable waters. Specific applications include costume jewelry, fire hose couplings, and zippers. Because of its availability in several forms, and because of its rich inherent color, it also has become extremely popular as an outdoor metal and has found for itself a very important place in modern architecture. An endless variety of shapes can be obtained by shape-drawing, brake-forming and shape rolling processes. For tube, typical uses are flexible metal hose, electrical conduit, pump liners and paper rolls.

None of the price differences were important until the world market changed, as did gasoline. Look at this chart and if 85% as compared to 61% of the others of our product is made of pure copper we had to reflect this in the price. Did we shoot ourselves in the foot? No. What we did is continue to give you the very best quality regardless of price. When the world reverts to sanity we will adjust the pricing accordingly, but it was to give you the best or not produce at all. We’ll let others give you second tier products unlabeled as to content differences, not us! As soon as possible we will put content labels on all of our track product, so that you can make an informed choice.

While we do not want to denigrate our competition, we do want you informed. Excuse the hard facts we have to tell you about and then choose your product carefully.

Stainless Steel 304:The basic alloy. Type 304 (18-8) is austenitic steel, possessing a minimum of 18% chromium and 8% nickel, combined with a maximum of 0.08% carbon. It is nonmagnetic steel, which cannot be hardened by heat treatment, but instead. Must be cold worked to obtain higher tensile strengths. The 18% minimum chromium content provides corrosion and oxidation resistance. The alloy’s metallurgical characteristics are established primarily by the nickel content (8% mm.), which also extends resistance to corrosion caused by reducing chemicals. Carbon, a necessity of mixed benefit, is held at a level (0.08% max.) that is satisfactory for most service applications. The stainless alloy resists most oxidizing acids and can withstand all ordinary rusting.

Stainless Steel is the very best choice for your railroad. We’ve never cleaned our track on our office layout after 4 years and get perfect running all the time.

PLEASE ASK THE VENDOR WHAT GRADE THEY ARE USING!!! It does matter!With Aristo-Craft’s buy 4 get one free track sale extended through the end of this year, does it pay to buy a lesser performance?

All the best,

Lewis Polk

Aristo-Craft Trains"

#2

I wonder who pressed his button?

I guess track sales must down a bit.

#3

Look for a price increase… also he just announced he will make a lesser-grade brass rail to meet the competition, only for flex track.

Regards, Greg

#4

Cale,

That one went out to a lot of people. And the comments have started making the rounds via email.

Perhaps someone who is a regular on the Aristo Forum could ask “Uncle Lewis”: “Uncle, could you please lower the copper content in your track, it really hurts. a) it could be cheaper and b) it probably would weather much nicer. Could you do that, Uncle?”

Any relation between “cry uncle” and “Uncle Lewis” is coincidental. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink: But I guess a circular email like that reminds all the recipients just how much Aristo’s track increased. PR, what PR? :wink:

#5

Wonder why Loowee doesn’t call it copper track?
I’m surprized it doesn’t turn green in the outdoors. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#6

Polky Baby…!!!

#7

Could it possibly have something to do with Piko and Marklin getting into ‘full’ production maybe? Up until now, it has been make hay while the sun shines. With Piko and Marklin now in the picture then the hay making has been curtailed considerably.

#8

PLEASE ASK THE VENDOR WHAT GRADE THEY ARE USING!!! It does matter!With Aristo-Craft’s buy 4 get one free track sale extended through the end of this year, does it pay to buy a lesser performance?

That’s pretty funny, makes it look like a good deal !

#9

The buy four get one free offer is extended to the end of the year (at least)’ Why not simply reduce the price of track by 20% and give everyone a windfall???

#10
Tim Brien said:
The buy four get one free offer is extended to the end of the year (at least)' Why not simply reduce the price of track by 20% and give everyone a windfall?????
Simple economics. The "Free" box always comes direct from Aristo and there is a "handling" charge. By running sales this way they... 1 - Don't need to subsidize or rebate the retailer. 2 - Retain complete control of the sale. 3 - Cover at least some of their cost with the handling fee. 4 - Not every one that tries to participate in the sale will qualify (failure to exactly follow he rules). 5 - Some will simply forget to send for the free box before it's too late.
#11

Errr…Huh? Sure sounds like someone’s spooked.

Excuse me but he keeps mentioning a mysterious “other” he can’t mean USA that comes from the same bleeding factory as his stuff does, LGB has been around forever and is even singled out as not the “other” here, at least thats the way I read it, so who does that leave?

Hmmmm…Llagas?, Sunset?, there is that “other” company…what’s there name again? starts with a “P”…:slight_smile:

#12

Yah know,
I got nothin agin LooWee’s track, except it never tarnishes, the so-called lifetime ties get old, white and brittle in about 5 years, the screws on the bottom are a real pain when you need to repair or replace a piece, and the turnouts are a piece of work.
jb

#13

Cale you can eliminate 90% of the problems you refer to by switching to battery power with RC control. Then you can even use cheaper aluminum track just to guide your trains the same way real railroads do with their iron rails.

#14

Seems to me the guy’s got a point. Composition of the metal does a make a difference in quality, and if the manufacturers of cheaper track aren’t telling you this, the consumer doesn’t know what they’re getting.

#15

…we proved that way back in the 1980’s…but no-one would listen…and they still don’t want to hear the fact…so…at this point I never make the statement…let them all learn the hard way…

#16

I mostly use Aristo aluminum track with track power. Haven’t had a problem. Aluminum is a better conductor than brass. The oxidation is non conductive but cleans easily. I will say the Aristo brass that I have does stay much cleaner than the LGB brass I use. But I understand you prototype guys not liking the shiny brass, especially if you are using battery power. The LGB brass does have a nicer color to it. The Aristo is so bright “yellow” it just visually stands out(not in a good way).
Ralph

#17

I’m ALL Battery…using any old Brass 332 I can find-cheap…that ain’t my email, that is straight from the Horse’s arse…

#18

The Aristo-Craft forum has a strict policy that no other manufacturer may be criticised. It seems that when one sets the forum policy that one has certain liberties when one administers the site. Of late the forum leader has several times made inferences as to the quality of other manufacturer’s products. He did not specifically refer to individual manufacturers but the wording was framed to point the finger in the appropriate direction. It’s good to be KING.

For more than 20 years LGB was the el surpremo of largescale track manufacturers. They were revered for their quality and excellent running characteristics. Along came the newcomer on the block and his product line was almost a genetically cloned copy of the LGB product. So close in fact, that a protracted court battle ensued. Well, the judge ruled that track is track and not an item to be patented and so copyright was not infringed. All of a sudden copper content becomes the selling point advantage.

Surprising that when supplies of LGB track was drying up from 2006 onwards, that the price of Aristo-Craft track spiralled upward. Yes, a coincidence that the increasing cost of copper had not been factored into the equation during the contract supply period from the Chinese manufacturer and the company was shocked with the new track pricing quotation. A common economic phenomena is that when supply is limited, price increases. Is it surprising that now with several manufacturers entering the marketplace that suddenly Aristo-Craft brass track is supposedly the best/most economical in the marketplace because it has more copper content? LGB used a lower content for all its production life and it was once considered the best available. The price of copper varies daily, but Aristo is locked into a set supply period contract and so do not expect any price reduction for some time to come. I feel that the copper content statement is one of many ‘pat me on the back, because I am a good boy’ type comments that will ensue in the future to combat the increased competition from other manufacturers. The competition will come from Piko and Marklin, but the dark horse I believe is Accucraft. I believe that Accucraft has a much lower copper content, has a different colour to Aristo and is seemingly more prone to fracturing as it is more brittle in its crystalline structure (possibly due to lower ductility from its lesser copper content). The move to code 250 has seen a switch to Accucraft in the industry and some people who have dominated the market are not willing to share.

#19

It could also have something to do with the huge shipment of Accucraft track that St Aubins have recently recieved, allowing them to discount. “Track prices below $4.00 a foot” Check out their website.

http://www.staubintrains.com/trainshop/default.asp

Dave

#20

Big Lou seems panicked. Doesn’t matter much to me, today i was running a loco on the kitchen floor. Battery R/C systems really don’t care about copper content, neither do I. I care about cheap track, and Lou ain’t got it.